BG2: the ***BIGGEST SPOILER OF ALL***

[berelinde]

This is a long, long dialogue. Far longer than anything I've ever written, and there aren't even a heck of a lot of places the PC can interrupt. But it has to be.

 

In a lot of ways, Gavin wouldn't be in BG at all if it weren't for this dialogue, since it was the encounter between Miranda, Lanie, and Talon Nirkhas that inspired me to write the mod. I thought this conversation would be easier to write if I introduced him to BG1 first, and let him warm up to the PC a bit before thrusting this confrontation upon them at the beginning of BG2, but I was wrong.

 

It didn't get any easier.

 

Please feel free to comment, but I want to say right now that I am extremely unlikely to change anything.

[berelinde]

CHAIN

IF WEIGHT #-1

~InParty("B!GAVIN")

InMyArea("B!GAVIN")

StateCheck("B!GAVIN",CD_STATE_NOTVALID)

Global("B!GavinLanie","GLOBAL",0)~ THEN ~CLMOM~ BMiranda1

~You! You are Talon Nirkhas, priest of Talos, are you not?!~

DO ~SetGlobal("B!GavinLanie","GLOBAL",1)~

== ~CLDAD~ ~Er... yes... yes, I am. Why do you ask?~

== ~CLMOM~ ~You don't remember me? We lay together an evening many moons ago. And this, here, is your daughter. Lanie, greet your father, darling.~

== ~CLKID~ ~Hullo, father.~

== ~CLDAD~ ~Ack! I... are you sure? I mean... I have no memory...~

== ~CLMOM~ ~You were deep into your cups that eve, Nirkhas. Blame me not if you have no memory of the event.~

== ~CLDAD~ ~I... I see. What is it exactly that you want?~

== ~CLMOM~ ~I want you to take responsibility for your child, foolish man.~

== ~CLKID~ ~(sigh) Mommy, I don't like this daddy. I liked the other daddies better.~

== ~CLMOM~ ~Hush, child!~

== ~CLDAD~ ~What's this?!~

== ~CLMOM~ ~Heh heh... oh, nothing, Talon Nirkhas. A simple mistake, perhaps, on my part. Please do excuse me. (You are in SUCH trouble, girl!)~

== ~CLDAD~ ~I see. Talos' blessing on you, then, and... er... good day.~

IF ~~ THEN DO ~ActionOverride("Cldad",MoveToPointNoInterrupt([2176.2468])) ActionOverride("Cldad",Face(14))~

EXTERN ~CLKID~ BLanie1

 

CHAIN

IF ~~ THEN ~CLKID~ BLanie1

~DADDY!~

== ~B!GAVINJ~ ~Lanie? Thank Lathander, I've found you!~

== ~CLMOM~ ~Gavin?!~

== ~B!GAVINJ~ ~Miranda! What in the nine hells did I just witness?~

== ~CLKID~ ~It's our new game. Mommy says if we're very good, they give us lots of gold.~

== ~CLMOM~ ~Gavin, I can explain! We waited for you for ever so long, and when you didn't return, we went looking for you.~

== ~B!GAVINJ~ ~And you thought you'd find me at a temple of Talos? Miranda, I sent a message on ahead, and I know you received it. But when I returned to Beregost, I found that I'd missed you by two days, Miranda. Two days!~

== ~CLMOM~ ~We had to leave... Urgent business.~

== ~B!GAVINJ~ ~You forgot to pay your servant, you know. I had to settle his wages when I got to the house. But what has happened to you? You went from having a housekeeper to soliciting clerics. Why?~

== ~CLMOM~ ~Hmf! He was paid, but I guess I can't blame him for trying to get a bit more out of you. But the money was running out, and we'd soon have nowhere to live.~

== ~B!GAVINJ~ ~You had a house in Beregost, and when I left, you had plenty of money. What happened?~

== ~CLMOM~ ~One thing and another... No, Gavin, you are right. It wasn't about the money.~

== ~B!GAVINJ~ ~Gah. This will take a while, I see. <CHARNAME>, I apologize for detaining you. This is my daughter Lanie, and her mother Miranda.~

= ~I am sorry, but I must speak with them.~

END

++ ~Take what time you need, Gavin.~ EXTERN ~B!GAVINJ~ BGavLan1.1

++ ~All right, but can you keep it quick?~ EXTERN ~B!GAVINJ~ BGavLan1.2

++ ~We really don't have time for this.~ EXTERN ~B!GAVINJ~ BGavLan1.3

 

CHAIN

IF ~~ THEN ~B!GAVINJ~ BGavLan1.3

~Then I am doubly sorry. I have to make time for this. You will find me at the Temple of Oghma in the Docks in a day's time. I will explain later, if you care.~

DO ~SetGlobalTimer("B!GavinRejoin","GLOBAL",ONE_DAY) IncrementGlobal("B!GavinLove","GLOBAL",-5) IncrementGlobal("B!GavinOffend","GLOBAL",1) LeaveParty() ChangeAIScript("",DEFAULT) EscapeAreaMove(ARxxxx,xxx,yyy,F) ActionOverride("Lanie",EscapeAreaMove(ARxxxx,xxx,yyy,F)) ActionOverride("Clmom",EscapeArea())~ //Don't forget to assign the coordinates, and don't forget to assign Clmom and Lanie DVs, if they aren't already.

EXIT

 

CHAIN

IF ~~ THEN ~B!GAVINJ~ BGavLan1.2

~I'll try, but I can't make any promises.~

DO ~IncrementGlobal("B!GavinLove","GLOBAL",-1)

EXTERN ~B!GAVINJ~ BGavLan1.4

 

CHAIN

IF ~~ THEN ~B!GAVINJ~ BGavLan1.1

~Thank you.~

EXTERN ~B!GAVINJ~ BGavLan1.4

 

CHAIN

IF ~~ THEN ~B!GAVINJ~ BGavLan1.4

~As I was saying, Miranda, you had everything you could have wanted in Beregost. Why did you leave?~

== ~CLMOM~ ~Gavin, we needed to leave. You could not know how horrible it was for us there. Beregost is a small town where people have nothing better to do than gossip. Do you think Greta was the only one with a cruel wit?~

== ~B!GAVINJ~ ~If they spoke unkindly, it was you that gave them something to talk about.~

= ~But you know what we agreed. Lanie would go to school in Baldur's Gate. You only had to wait a little longer, and you could have moved to Baldur's Gate and been near her. No one would have known you there, and you would have been rid of me, for the most part.

== ~CLMOM~ ~But I will never be free of you! You will always be there, hovering over her.~

== ~B!GAVINJ~ ~I am her father!~

== ~CLMOM~ ~You are a spectre of the life I would leave behind!~

== ~B!GAVINJ~ ~Miranda, please, let us confine this to the present. I just saw you try to give our daughter to a complete stranger!~

== ~CLMOM~ ~I didn't. He would have paid for our silence.~

== ~B!GAVINJ~ ~Like the others? How many were there, Miranda? When did it start? And what would you have done had Talon Nirkhas claimed her? He has the backing of a powerful faith, and one little moved by mercy, or even reason. What if the whim took his superiors to support his claim to your child... a child *you* gave him?~

== ~CLMOM~ ~No one would claim a child on such feeble proof.~

== ~B!GAVINJ~ ~You cannot know that! Lanie is my daughter! I will not allow you to risk her like that!~

== ~CLMOM~ ~You have no right to make demands of me.~

== ~B!GAVINJ~ ~I have every right. I am her father.~

== ~CLMOM~ ~You are not.~

== ~B!GAVINJ~ ~Lanie, darling, I have to speak with your mother alone now. Would you please wait by that statue of Helm over there, by the knight in the shiny armor? I will be right there, sweetheart.~

== ~CLKID~ ~Yes, Daddy.~ DO ~ActionOverride("Lanie",MoveToPoint(xxx,yyy))~

END

++ ~(let him go on)~ EXTERN ~B!GAVINJ~ BGavLan1.5

++ ~(shift your feet uncomfortably and wait for Gavin to get this over with)~ EXTERN ~B!GAVINJ~ BGavLan1.5

++ ~Gavin, could you hurry this along?~ EXTERN ~B!GAVINJ~ BGavLan1.6

++ ~Can we meet you later?~ EXTERN ~B!GAVINJ~ BGavLan1.7

 

CHAIN

IF ~~ THEN ~B!GAVINJ~ BGavLan1.7

~Perhaps. I will be at the Temple of Oghma, but I need some time with my daughter. I will be there in one day.~

DO ~SetGlobalTimer("B!GavinRejoin","GLOBAL",ONE_DAY) IncrementGlobal("B!GavinLove","GLOBAL",-3) IncrementGlobal("B!GavinOffend","GLOBAL",1) LeaveParty() ChangeAIScript("",DEFAULT) EscapeAreaMove(ARxxxx,xxx,yyy,F) ActionOverride("Lanie",EscapeAreaMove(ARxxxx,xxx,yyy,F)) ActionOverride("Clmom",EscapeArea())~ //Don't forget to assign the coordinates, and don't forget to assign Clmom and Lanie DVs, if they don't already have them.

EXIT

 

CHAIN

IF ~~ THEN ~B!GAVINJ~ BGavLan1.6

~I'd like to, but I don't see how I can.~

EXTERN ~B!GAVINJ~ BGavLan1.5

 

CHAIN

IF ~~ THEN ~B!GAVINJ~ BGavLan1.5

~Miranda, Lanie has but one father. Me.~

== ~CLMOM~ ~Lanie is not your daughter, fool. I was with child before I ever lay with you.~

== ~B!GAVINJ~ ~I knew that. Did you think that even in my innocence I knew nothing of such things? My mother is a midwife, as you know full well. And even then, I'd already been called to bless both marriages and births. But you made Lanie my daughter the moment you told me you carried my child. You cannot take that back now. She is mine, and I will *be* her father!~

= ~But tell me: you wanted that cleric to take Lanie, didn't you?~

== ~CLMOM~ ~Yes.~

== ~B!GAVINJ~ ~Why?~

== ~CLMOM~ ~Because time is no friend to a woman making a fresh start.~

== ~B!GAVINJ~ ~You can never start over, only try again.~

== ~CLMOM~ ~Spare me your sermons, cleric. I've heard them already.~

= ~A woman can't just sign on to the garrison, for example, and make a name for herself, you know! It's harder for us.~

== ~B!GAVINJ~ ~Why not? Lots do.~

== ~CLMOM~ ~Not when they are... Look at me, Gavin! For once in your life, really look at me. Look past your own distrust and selfish insecurity, and see me as I am!~

= ~I am getting old, Gavin. Old!~

== ~B!GAVINJ~ ~You are still a beautiful woman, Miranda. You always were.~

== ~CLMOM~ ~But my beauty is fading. What future awaits a woman who has lived off the charity of men, once the fragile blush of youth is spent? Look how far I have sunk already! Lanie's first protector was a strapping cleric of Lathander, even if he was also a pimply-faced vagabond. Now, I am reduced to scavanging among the clerics of Talos.~

== ~B!GAVINJ~ ~Lanie's protector is still a cleric of Lathander, even if his complexion has cleared. She needs no other.~

== ~CLMOM~ ~But you would never let me go, Gavin! You would keep me chained to Lanie, fading, getting older and uglier until even the fossils in the trading coster would not want to be seen with me.~

== ~CLMOM~ IF ~Global("B!GavinRomancePath","GLOBAL",ENGAGED/MARRIED)/* FIX THIS */~ THEN ~Here you stand, with a glowing youth on your arm, (who is she, by the way?), looking better than ever you looked when you were mine, and you would deny me the chance to make a good match myself!~

== ~CLMOM~ IF ~Global("B!GavinRomancePath","GLOBAL",DATING)/* FIX THIS */~ THEN ~Here you stand, in the presence of this glowing youth (who is she, by the way?), looking better than ever you looked when you were mine, and you would deny me the chance to make a good match myself!~

== ~CLMOM~ IF ~!Global("B!GavinRomancePath","GLOBAL",ENGAGED/MARRIED) !Global("B!GavinRomancePath","GLOBAL",DATING)/* FIX THIS */~ THEN ~Here you stand, looking better than ever you looked when you were mine, and you would deny me the chance to make a good match myself!~

END

IF ~Global("B!GavinRomancePath","GLOBAL",DATING)/* FIX THIS */~ EXTERN ~B!GAVINJ~ BGavLan1.15

IF ~Global("B!GavinRomancePath","GLOBAL",ENGAGED)/* FIX THIS */~ EXTERN ~B!GAVINJ~ BGavLan1.8

IF ~Global("B!GavinRomancePath","GLOBAL",MARRIED)/* FIX THIS */~ EXTERN ~B!GAVINJ~ BGavLan1.9

IF ~!Global("B!GavinRomancePath","GLOBAL",DATING/ENGAGED/MARRIED)/* FIX THIS */~ EXTERN ~B!GAVINJ~ BGavLan1.10

 

CHAIN

IF ~~ THEN ~B!GAVINJ~ BGavLan1.8

~I am sorry. I had not meant to introduce you like this, but it is too late now. Miranda, this is <CHARNAME>, my betrothed.~

== ~CLMOM~ ~Your betrothed, eh? Good luck, child. You'll need it, if you plan to wed Gavin.~

END

++ ~And what is that supposed to mean?~ EXTERN ~CLMOM~ BGavLan1.11

++ ~So, this is Miranda. Has she always been like this?~ EXTERN ~B!GAVINJ~ BGavLan1.12

++ ~Er... charmed, I think.~ EXTERN ~CLMOM~ BGavLan1.13

++ ~Gavin, when this is over, we need to talk.~ DO ~SetGlobal("B!PCTalkAboutMiranda","GLOBAL",1)~ EXTERN ~B!GAVINJ~ BGavLan1.14

//EXTERN ~B!GAVINJ~ BGavLan1.10

 

CHAIN

IF ~~ THEN ~B!GAVINJ~ BGavLan1.9

~I am sorry. I had not meant to introduce you like this, but it is too late now. Miranda, this is <CHARNAME>, my wife.~

== ~CLMOM~ ~Your wife, eh? Good luck, child. You'll need it, married to Gavin.~

END

++ ~And what is that supposed to mean?~ EXTERN ~CLMOM~ BGavLan1.11

++ ~So, this is Miranda. Has she always been like this?~ EXTERN ~B!GAVINJ~ BGavLan1.12

++ ~Er... charmed, I think.~ EXTERN ~CLMOM~ BGavLan1.13

++ ~Gavin, when this is over, we need to talk.~ DO ~SetGlobal("B!PCTalkAboutMiranda","GLOBAL",1)~ EXTERN ~B!GAVINJ~ BGavLan1.14

//EXTERN ~B!GAVINJ~ BGavLan1.10

 

CHAIN

IF ~~ THEN ~B!GAVINJ~ BGavLan1.10

~What do you want from me, Miranda?~

== ~CLMOM~ ~I want you to let me be. I want you to place Lanie in school, and then, I want you to raise her.~

= ~I want to be free to pursue the life that suits me, before age robs me of that chance forever.~

== ~B!GAVINJ~ ~You wish to become a trophy bride for some rich old merchant?~

== ~CLMOM~ ~He need not be old.~

== ~B!GAVINJ~ ~And you feel that your market value is less if you have a daughter?~

== ~CLMOM~ ~A man like that would not want to father someone else's child. But I do not know what awaits me. If the fates are kinder to me than they have been, I might even find love.~

== ~B!GAVINJ~ ~Could you really turn your back on Lanie like that?~

== ~CLMOM~ ~This is hard enough, Gavin, and you aren't making it any easier.~

== ~B!GAVINJ~ ~Miranda, even if I could give you what you want, you are giving up something beyond any price.~

= ~Please, do not be reckless. There are rich merchants aplenty in Athkatla, although I must warn you that not all mean well. I will enroll Lanie at the Temple of Oghma here in Athkatla. Perhaps you might yet wed your wealthy benefactor and still be able to return to Lanie.~

== ~CLMOM~ ~(sob) I hope so... Gavin, this is hard! I wish it didn't have to be this way.~

== ~B!GAVINJ~ ~It doesn't...~

== ~CLMOM~ ~But it does. Gavin, I made mistakes in my life, I know. If I could take them back, I would, but it's too late for any of that now.~

= ~Once, I, too, had my future before me. One act of carelessness changed that forever. I love Lanie, gods know, and I never regretted bearing her, but the world is unkind when your needs include supporting a child. Do you think I enjoyed the life desperation forced upon me? I did the best I could.~

== ~B!GAVINJ~ ~I know.~

== ~CLMOM~ ~I don't think you do. You had the temple to sustain you, to sustain all of us. But now, Lanie will be in school, and you'll still be supporting her, but what will happen to me?~

== ~B!GAVINJ~ ~I wouldn't leave you to starve.~

== ~CLMOM~ ~Thank you, but I've had enough of your charity. It's past time for me to do something with my life. Though it breaks my heart to let Lanie go, at least I know you'll take care of her.~

= ~I must go. You will not let Lanie down, will you?~

== ~B!GAVINJ~ ~Never. May the peace of Lathander find you, Miranda.~

DO ~SetGlobal("B!GavinLanie","GLOBAL",2) ActionOverride("Clmom",EscapeArea())~

 

CHAIN

IF ~~ THEN ~CLMOM~ BGavLan1.11

~You will find that living with Gavin is not quite "happily ever after," my dear. He is moody and prefers to run from problems he lacks the courage to face. But why take my word for it? Look to his past for your answers.~

== ~B!GAVINJ~ ~Miranda, I... I admit I could have treated you better. I should have treated you better. But don't forget your role in that. You broke trust with me before I gave up on you. There is no going back, but even a man as flawed as me can change.~

== ~CLMOM~ ~You are as full of hot air as ever, I see.~

EXTERN ~B!GAVINJ~ BGavLan1.10

 

CHAIN

IF ~~ THEN ~B!GAVINJ~ BGavLan1.12

~No, this is new. I have never known her to be this... bitter.~

== ~CLMOM~ ~You will find that living with Gavin is not quite "happily ever after," my dear. He is moody and prefers to run from problems he lacks the courage to face. But why take my word for it? Look to his past for your answers.~

== ~B!GAVINJ~ ~Miranda, I... I admit I could have treated you better. I should have treated you better. But don't forget your role in that. You broke trust with me before I gave up on you. There is no going back, but even a man as flawed as me can change.~

== ~CLMOM~ ~You are as full of hot air as ever, I see.~

EXTERN ~B!GAVINJ~ BGavLan1.10

 

CHAIN

IF ~~ THEN ~CLMOM~ BGavLan1.13

~Oooh! Listen to the manners on this one!~

= ~You will find that living with Gavin is not quite "happily ever after," my dear. He is moody and prefers to run from problems he lacks the courage to face. But why take my word for it? Look to his past for your answers.~

== ~B!GAVINJ~ ~Miranda, I... I admit I could have treated you better. I should have treated you better. But don't forget your role in that. You broke trust with me before I gave up on you. There is no going back, but even a man as flawed as me can change.~

== ~CLMOM~ ~You are as full of hot air as ever, I see.~

EXTERN ~B!GAVINJ~ BGavLan1.10

 

CHAIN

IF ~~ THEN ~B!GAVINJ~ BGavLan1.14

~Yes, I suppose we do. I am sorry you have to witness this.~

== ~CLMOM~ ~You will find that living with Gavin is not quite "happily ever after," my dear. He is moody and prefers to run from problems he lacks the courage to face. But why take my word for it? Look to his past for your answers.~

== ~B!GAVINJ~ ~Miranda, I... I admit I could have treated you better. I should have treated you better. But don't forget your role in that. You broke trust with me before I gave up on you. There is no going back, but even a man as flawed as me can change.~

== ~CLMOM~ ~You are as full of hot air as ever, I see.~

EXTERN ~B!GAVINJ~ BGavLan1.10

 

CHAIN

IF ~~ THEN ~B!GAVINJ~ BGavLan1.15

~I am sorry. I would have preferred not to acquiant you with my past in such an... uncomfortable manner, but it is too late now. Miranda, this is my... friend, <CHARNAME>.~

== ~CLMOM~ ~Your friend, eh? Good luck, child. You'll need it, with Gavin for company.~

END

++ ~And what is that supposed to mean?~ EXTERN ~CLMOM~ BGavLan1.16

++ ~So, this is Miranda. Has she always been like this?~ EXTERN ~B!GAVINJ~ BGavLan1.17

++ ~Er... charmed, I think.~ EXTERN ~CLMOM~ BGavLan1.18

++ ~Gavin, when this is over, we need to talk.~ DO ~SetGlobal("B!PCTalkAboutMiranda","GLOBAL",1)~ EXTERN ~B!GAVINJ~ BGavLan1.19

//EXTERN ~B!GAVINJ~ BGavLan1.10

 

CHAIN

IF ~~ THEN ~CLMOM~ BGavLan1.16

~You will find that "friendship" with Gavin is not quite "happily ever after," my dear. He is moody and prefers to run from problems he lacks the courage to face. But why take my word for it? Look to his past for your answers.~

== ~B!GAVINJ~ ~Miranda, I... I admit I could have treated you better. I should have treated you better. But don't forget your role in that. You broke trust with me before I gave up on you. There is no going back, but even a man as flawed as me can change.~

== ~CLMOM~ ~You are as full of hot air as ever, I see.~

EXTERN ~B!GAVINJ~ BGavLan1.10

 

CHAIN

IF ~~ THEN ~B!GAVINJ~ BGavLan1.17

~No, this is new. I have never known her to be this... bitter.~

== ~CLMOM~ ~You will find that "friendship" with Gavin is not quite "happily ever after," my dear. He is moody and prefers to run from problems he lacks the courage to face. But why take my word for it? Look to his past for your answers.~

== ~B!GAVINJ~ ~Miranda, I... I admit I could have treated you better. I should have treated you better. But don't forget your role in that. You broke trust with me before I gave up on you. There is no going back, but even a man as flawed as me can change.~

== ~CLMOM~ ~You are as full of hot air as ever, I see.~

EXTERN ~B!GAVINJ~ BGavLan1.10

 

CHAIN

IF ~~ THEN ~CLMOM~ BGavLan1.18

~Oooh! Listen to the manners on this one!~

= ~You will find that "friendship" with Gavin is not quite "happily ever after," my dear. He is moody and prefers to run from problems he lacks the courage to face. But why take my word for it? Look to his past for your answers.~

== ~B!GAVINJ~ ~Miranda, I... I admit I could have treated you better. I should have treated you better. But don't forget your role in that. You broke trust with me before I gave up on you. There is no going back, but even a man as flawed as me can change.~

== ~CLMOM~ ~You are as full of hot air as ever, I see.~

EXTERN ~B!GAVINJ~ BGavLan1.10

 

CHAIN

IF ~~ THEN ~B!GAVINJ~ BGavLan1.19

~Yes, I suppose we do. I am sorry you have to witness this.~

== ~CLMOM~ ~You will find that "friendship" with Gavin is not quite "happily ever after," my dear. He is moody and prefers to run from problems he lacks the courage to face. But why take my word for it? Look to his past for your answers.~

== ~B!GAVINJ~ ~Miranda, I... I admit I could have treated you better. I should have treated you better. But don't forget your role in that. You broke trust with me before I gave up on you. There is no going back, but even a man as flawed as me can change.~

== ~CLMOM~ ~You are as full of hot air as ever, I see.~

EXTERN ~B!GAVINJ~ BGavLan1.10

[cmorgan]

wow.

[Ajnos]

wow.

 

Yeah. That was well-done, berelinde. I do feel sorry for Miranda, I don't like her but she's always been a somewhat sympathetic for me. This dialogue really brings that into focus for me, it's a losing situation... that she is responsible for... if she had much of a choice... or if she ever really tried to do/be anything else... and so on. I like it.

[Kitana]

wow.

 

Seconded. Wow.

[cmorgan]

in response to PM, because I forget that the internet is not small chats with close intimate friends, I will clarify (I think Ajnos and Kitana are saying the same kinds of things, too... )

 

It was a

 

"wow. heavy, dude."

 

as in

 

"wow. Y'know, a computer game *can* have the weight that good fiction does."

 

or a

 

"wow. I wish I could 'grok' dialogue as fast as berelinde; I'd have finished assisting BG1 NPC by now."

 

 

or a

 

"wow. This is taking a serious and realistic approach to a fiction character. It is balanced and well written."

 

or a

 

"wow. I can't figure out if I should destroy the woman or pity her; wallop Gavin for his stupidity or protect him from his character flaw or support his faith/strength ; get involved or not get involved." (Male friend perspective)

 

or a

 

"wow. A long dialogue with no real option for PC interjections, yet in spite of breaking every rule that says 'PC is Hero[ine] so constantly refer back to PC', there is no way PC could productively or nonproductively contribute - this is a scene that is entirely focused on Gavin's relationship. PC can't help - like in RL, she can watch as her significant other does either the noblest thing he has ever done, the stupidest thing he has ever done, or both simultaneously - and if he is truly a man, if she says a single word her chances of a meaningful relationship are dust in the wind."

 

So I stuck with

 

"wow".

 

[Ajnos]

" -and if he is truly a man, if she says a single word her chances of a meaningful relationship are dust in the wind."

 

Explain?

 

Edit: Um, I'm not being hostile (really!) I don't understand what this means or why "a single word" = end of all things.

[berelinde]

Yeah, the three things I don't like about that is that it's too long, too heavy, and leaves the PC out of the action.

 

I can't shorten it or have the PC interrupting elsewhere because both parties need the anger and the momentum to carry them through it. This is a conversation they should have had years ago, before it ever got this bad, if they hadn't stopped talking to each other.

 

And some things are serious by nature.

 

But this is why I knew BG2 Gavin would get off to a rocky start, especially if the PC is already angry with him for leaving him or her high and dry in Baldur's Gate for six months.

 

The PC will have a chance to talk about it later, as a PID option.

 

All I can say is that after this, it does go back to a more typical level of interaction.

 

Edit: I think cmorgan means that taking the ex's side here would likely make the guy throw his hands in the air, muttering something unprintable about women. Which might be fair game for later discussion.

[cmorgan]

might be even trickier than that - I'm really over-generalizing here, but it seems to me that most of us guys choose to get all sensitive about tough "principled" decisions about ex-es and significant others, and get very very angry when our decisions are percieved as being "supported" (meaning the male response is "Hey, get out of *my* business, lady - you don't own me") or "attacked" (meaning the male response is "Hey, you take *her* side? What, you are going to be like *her*? Fine, have her all to yourself. I 'm outta here").

 

Late night very general stuff here.

[Eleima]

Yeah, the three things I don't like about that is that it's too long, too heavy, and leaves the PC out of the action.

I can't shorten it or have the PC interrupting elsewhere because both parties need the anger and the momentum to carry them through it. This is a conversation they should have had years ago, before it ever got this bad, if they hadn't stopped talking to each other.

And some things are serious by nature.

 

I, too, am stunned by the sheer genius in this dialog. I've never felt much sympathy for un-modded Miranda, but this dialog really fleshed her character out. Like it's been said before, a lot of things are brought into focus, and I think it's perfect as is (except maybe for a typo in "Now, I am reduced to scavanging among the clerics of Talos", where it should read "scavenging", but that's just me being my picky old self! ).

Anyway, I'm not sure that you should try to shorten it. The whole issue is so important, it's such a milestone, that you can't reasonably trim the whole thing and still have it as powerful as it is now. At least that's my view; I feel that you would lose some of its momentum, some of its impact. I'm not sure I'm being extremely clear, maybe my brain's still fuzzy...

Still, one thing I will say: Wow.

[Kulyok]

might be even trickier than that - I'm really over-generalizing here, but it seems to me that most of us guys choose to get all sensitive about tough "principled" decisions about ex-es and significant others, and get very very angry when our decisions are percieved as being "supported" (meaning the male response is "Hey, get out of *my* business, lady - you don't own me") or "attacked" (meaning the male response is "Hey, you take *her* side? What, you are going to be like *her*? Fine, have her all to yourself. I 'm outta here").

 

Yes, you are really over-generalizing here.

 

 

Very good dialogue, great dialogue - though, as I said before, I was surprised that Miranda walked away without saying goodbye to Lanie.

[Kitana]

Mine was more of a "wow, that's amazing".

 

It doesn't really -need- more PC interjections, in my opinion - this isn't -her- conversation, this is Gavin's.

[cmorgan]

[laughing]Hey, I'm a male - we overgeneralize (along with the whole toilet-seat-left in the up position, we have to do *something* to preserve our maleness...)[/laughing]

[Kulyok]

[laughing]Hey, I'm a male - we overgeneralize. (along with the whole toilet-seat-left in the up position, we have to do *something* to preserve our maleness...)[/laughing]

 

You are doing it again.

 

Really, do you think that males, who never leave the toilet seat in the upper position, do not erupt in hysterics while dealing their exes(in case they have them), and deal decently with everyone, do not exist?

[cmorgan]

no offense taken in any way, this is a polite conversation between friends!

 

[on topic]

I say that is damned fine writing, and I would call it done. What else could there possibly be to say, without diminishing the emotional punch in the gut?

[off topic]

 

[offtopic, for fun conversation] That was the joke, Kulyok - I didn't do it right, or clearly enough, sorry about that. I was overgeneralizing about overgeneralizing - that's why I put the whole thing in laughting brackets

 

But to answer your question more seriosly (still for fun, here - I mean no offense in any way, just talking over a nice glass of scotch and comfortably)

 

Well, since I am a RL one, with 14 years of hard-won marriage to a strong, independent, beautiful woman, post-masters and phd work in the arts, a successful career, good friends from all walks of life, and two poodle-puppies (and CRPGs) to take up the slack from the God's Whim of no kids, I know we exist -

however, to be blunt, outside of fiction, I have to say ...

 

[begin long silly exposition you can skip unless you are Kulyok ]

I have been in education for 19 years, in the arts professionally for longer, and worked with kids and parents in and out of school in youth groups, Boy Scouts, and after-school programs in rural, inner-city, and suburban environments. I have been a male all that time.

 

I have met men who beat their wives and/or kids, men who have been beaten by their wives and/or kids, turned in ones that raped and sold thier kids' bodies, and men who could not be called "men" - only things that looked like men but really were cockroaches in disguise (and that is an insult to cockroaches everywhere). I have also met some men who turned out to be either physically or spiritually women.

 

I have befriended men who would die for their kids, men who would rather do drugs or alcohol than face their wife/kids, one guy who was trying to have two wives (he failed miserably), several men who have had a number of kids/wives/combination thereof, men who would die for their wives, men who would die for thier ex-wives AND current wives (and so on and so on - you can toss the combinations around as you see fit ). I have one good friend who is now male, but used to be female, and any number of male friends who go home at night to stable same-sex marriages (as Robin Williams puts it - it is *all* the same sex after marriage!).

 

Apart from Azkyoth, who seems to represent a rather enlightened and philosophical approach to being human than the average joe on the street, I have very rarely found a fellow male who calimed a truly "equal" relationship with their partner, male or female. Very few who would enjoy their [female/male] partner sticking their darned noses in a male's past relationships. (and I am ok with it, but don't enjoy it.) Even fewer who wanted their [female/male] partner making choices or suggestions about their present relationships, friends, or drinking comanions. None who enjoyed the sense of nagging and controlling midwifery when your [female/male] partner compares her/himself (favorably or unfavorably) to your ex-girl/boyfriend, ex-wife, or mother. Absolutely none who would enjoy a public scene where they (an upset person trying to negotiate a difficult and horribly emotional interaction) would welcome public intervention from a [female/male] associate of any kind, *especially* their current significant other, unless they just didn't want to deal with the ex - in which case, the observation is call "catfight" and sell tickets.

 

As a side note, perhaps it is different in other cultures, but in the US, the only men more likely than us Americun Men to be "old guard" about their public discussions during relationships (and the concept of "masculine pride") are the newly emigrated from your neck of the woods, Kulyok. Perhaps you folks are shipping all the 30something males with old-fashioned "women should be barefoot and pregnant in the home, and get me my cigarettes" attitudes to the States for reeducation, but I am afraid that for most of our country it is really still 1952.

 

We talk a good game, but women are definitely still second(third) class citizens with huge barriers to equality; and we are talking about barriers maintained by people who were children in the 1960's, who seem to have forgotten what they were fighting for and joined the Old Boy's Network. I still get funny looks from most male friends when I mention silly small things, like shared cooking/cleaning duties, partnership approaches to finances, and decisionmaking as a couple. From men newly arrived from more "traditional" cultures, I get laughter and talk of my being a wimp. From my more conservative religious friends (don't worry, I am working on 'em) I get serious, careful, friendly counselling about God's Ordained Role for Women as Servant of Man - she was created From Man to Serve Man (and that's just the Catholics. Don't get me started on the Baptists and Born-Again Pentecostals).

 

My response is a grin, with a small phrase from BG1 running through my head... "You *will* learn". See, I have a strong suspicion that God is a woman, and she ain't gonna be happy with them when they come home to her...

 

[/End long silly exposition you can skip unless you are Kulyok, entirely for her entertainment alone]

 

 

... Rarely