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thought for casting in armor


subtledoctor

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In addition to, or instead of, casting speed penalties, how about effective caster level penalties when wearing heavy armor? Something simple like -1 for light armor, -2 for medium, -3 for heavy.

 

The effect would be minor, but I think it would be appropriate. And I don't think it would be too hard to do. Just another ADD_ITEM_EQEFFECT for each list of armors. (I'm not sure how IR's armor .ini file is implemented, but it would be cool to have this as another option. Especially if used in conjunction with the SR option that imposes save penalties with higher caster level.)

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I don't know why it would affect caster level wearing armour? I use the chance of failure component. But if you could explain the logic behind, I'd be glad.

Chance of failure is too all-or-nothing for me. Why does the magic fizzle sometimes, but work perfectly other times?

 

The idea of this is, as you wear heavier armor it takes longer to cast spells, and the spells end up being weaker. An 8th-level Fireball would do 7d6 damage in leather armor, 6d6 in chain armor, and 5d6 in plate.

 

Like Jarno said, it would nice as another option for players to choose.

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The idea of this is, as you wear heavier armor it takes longer to cast spells, and the spells end up being weaker.

Erhm, it takes longer to learn how to make the same agile movements with all this steel around your fingers ... and so the fines of the movement effects the precision of the casting effects which effects the precision of that effect, effect. :D Yep, the last word is there just to emphasize. :p Not the length of the spells casting. The spell casting length is another completely different option. Of course you could also offer a combination of the balancing effects(casting length + casting failure rate + reduction of casting level) and their 3 other combos that has two of them. So we just basically asking that you program, hmm 5 additional components. :p

1. No penalty, 2. Casting failure rate, 3. Casting length addition, 4. Reduced casting level*, 5. Casting failure and length addition* ...

Yes, it's a little contrived, but so are the justifications for all the others too. As you shouldn't be casting spells in heavy armor. :devlook: Which is a contrived too. :undecided:

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In addition to, or instead of, casting speed penalties, how about effective caster level penalties when wearing heavy armor? Something simple like -1 for light armor, -2 for medium, -3 for heavy.

 

The effect would be minor, but I think it would be appropriate. And I don't think it would be too hard to do. Just another ADD_ITEM_EQEFFECT for each list of armors. (I'm not sure how IR's armor .ini file is implemented, but it would be cool to have this as another option. Especially if used in conjunction with the SR option that imposes save penalties with higher caster level.)

 

Have you tested this with the AI? Some of the scripted spell casting actions require that the CRE be of sufficient level to cast a spell, so if the armor dropped them below that threshold, would that prevent that action from working?

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Have you tested this with the AI?

Yeah, well, the spell needs to actually have an effect at reduced caster levels... but making fireball have an 1d6 at caster level one with a save throw is easy if you actually program the spell as you should and promise in the spell description. You do not start at a 'random' level like 5. Yeah, the only thing that's required is a level 4 mage... as then you do not have a negative caster level in a plate.

That's a 9 years old thread. I believe the ToBEx and EE games weren't even dreamed about yet, and ToBEx has a fix for this...

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It didn't worked in 2006, but ToBEx fixed it.

 

Personally I don't see why wearing an armor should affect the casting lvl of the spell and affect stuff like spell power and/or duration. I'm not convinced about it and I think casting speed penalty not only makes more sense but it's also enough of a penalty to discourage the use of heavy armor.

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But is there any chance you could code this ? And with proper implementation (in including the SR), aka make your spells castable at caster level 1, even the if the caster needs to be level 12 to have access to the spell ?

Yes, the spell files are going to be a bit bigger, but the few bits won't kill the game.

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But is there any chance you could code this ?

If Mike and Arda feels it's worth it I'm fine adding it as an ini option, but personally I really don't like it.

 

And with proper implementation (in including the SR), aka make your spells castable at caster level 1, even the if the caster needs to be level 12 to have access to the spell ?

Yes, the spell files are going to be a bit bigger, but the few bits won't kill the game.

I already started to work on this.

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Coding it wouldn't be very hard, but the question is whether anyone would use it.

 

I don't think adjusting the casting level stat would have any effect on what spells can be cast. It would likely just slightly modify spells that have level-dependent variables, like 1d6 damage per level (max 10d6) or a duration of 6 rounds + 1 round / level. That might have some effect in the game, but it would be very difficult to notice and not consistent across different spells.

 

subtledoctor, what's your opinion of the casting speed penalties component?

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Coding it wouldn't be very hard, but the question is whether anyone would use it.

I myself would see the use of this, the reasons I will give later*.

 

I don't think adjusting the casting level stat would have any effect on what spells can be cast.

The .spl file itself argues against this, but Demi is already taking care of that, so it will be a non issue. Take a look a the vanilla BG2's fireball, it starts as if it were a caster level 7 spell, according to my memory. So that's a 7d6(well, 4d6+3d6 with save) even with a level mage dual. Yeah, principally they can't cast it, but ... make it a wild mage and ... :devlook:

 

subtledoctor, what's your opinion of the casting speed penalties component?

*In MY opinion this component punishes the wrong end of the spectrum, be it the leather armor or heavy full plate it's the very start after the instant casting spells that are punished the most severely... and in the most odd thing... casting a Timestop for example can't be punished cause it already takes a round to cast.

The spell failure, is too random for me.

And yes, I know it should be easy to code... but having the option in a more major mod than say my personal collection is likely to allow more players to enjoy the benefit of the choice ...

Last and well least, I kind of hate "cheating for no reason" so the no punishment option is a valid choice to make if the others are not to ones liking, but avoiding it should be the principle, which at this point let's be strait, I don't have any. :devlook:

 

I already started to work on this.

Good, I sorta knew that already, but the above is just a reminder for everyone else that can't read my mind.
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I too am not crazy about the idea. Especially within SR it would work even less predictably since many spells got fixed duration compared to original.

 

My opinion is that casting speed is enough and works nicely in the game, with the only objection that I think the latest speed penalties got a bit too low. In the spirit of fixing things but keeping the original feeling intact that supposedly all revision mods are, going from complete inability to cast to +1 speed (leather) is quite a leap. I would suggest a +1 larger penalty across the board. Otherwise I love that component.

 

PS: I think it's quite obvious that I don't use casting failure option. If that was the only option I would actually prefer to play with no casting in armor at all.

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subtledoctor, what's your opinion of the casting speed penalties component?

Coding it could be super-simple - depending on what the existing code already looks like.

 

As far as rationales, you can come up with a decent rationale for any house rule like this:

- No casting in armor: to properly manipulate the magical energy and use somatic components of spellcasting, you need to be completely free. Any armor = unable to do it right.

- Chance of failure: you can cast in armor, but the armor distracts you and can grab your fingers and cause you to screw up the spell.

- Slower casting: it takes more concentration to overcome distractions like the one above, and you have to spend a few more seconds getting the spell just right to successfully cast it.

- Decreased caster level: The magical energy has to flow through your body as you cast the spell, and the more of a physical barrier you put up between yourself and the Weave, the more the potency of the spell is diminished. So your fireballs are weaker, your Projected Images can't be maintained for as long, and you are less effective at Dispelling the magic of other, less-encumbered spellcasters.

 

I personally prefer the speed penalties in my game, but all else being equal, I would like to combine it with caster level penalties if possible. It would add a bit more flavor. I designed a whole kit around this opcode, it's a multiclass mage who can cast and dispel with the same power as a single-class mage with the same XP. (But no extra spells or anything - it's a minor effect, but nice for flavor.)

 

Stepping away from whatever headcanon you might want to use, the idea of a mod is to offer players an alternative to the vanilla rule. The vanilla game presents itself as the One True Way; so it doesn't make sense (to me) for a mod to say "here's an alternative, and now my alternative is the One True Way." As long as we're offering alternatives, why not offer multiple alternatives and let the player decide what is most fun for him/herself?

 

As long as it's not difficult to code, of course. I could make this as a mod myself, but here IR is already doing something very similar, already has lists of each type of armor, already has an .ini file for just this sort of customization... so I figured I would throw it out here and see if you all like the idea.

 

If/when I have some free time, I could take a look at the v4 code and see about inserting this as another option, and report back. But I have very, very little free time and I'm working on 3 of my own mods at the moment, so I don't want to do that unless you're interested.

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