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Kobold daggers


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#16 AstroBryGuy

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Posted 12 September 2018 - 06:57 PM

Not want to be rude, but I am personally against about the current implementation of the poisonous dagger, because:

 

1. Tactical-wise, If the purpose was to bring more tactical challenge by beefing up kobolds, the undroppable version should do it well. Making it droppable empowers players with increased combat power and/or monetary gain, therefore reducing the tactical challenge. 

 

2. RP-wise, I think a permanent enchantment like secondary damage is not trivial task, and the kobold tribe has to mass-produce it, which looks unrealistic to me. The "normal dagger plus applied venom" rationale looks more natural and achievable. 

 

3. Undroppable items are indeed immersion-breaking, because it is just a shortcut for implementing a combat ability (in this case, it mimics Assassin's poison weapon skill. We can surely use an alternate but more complex approach, say, create a SPL that do the trick, and set their script to use the trick, yet I am not sure if it really worth all the hassle.

 

The player would never notice, so why is it immersion breaking? It's a trick used by the game quite often. Flinds carry undroppable weapons that have similar effects to a "flind bar" as described in the 2E Monstrous Manual, but they also carry swords in their inventory (and the animation wields a sword). So, when you kill one, it drops a sword. Every undead gets its "undead immunities" (e.g., sleep, charm, etc..) from a ring it wears. It's an easy way for the game programmers to give a group of creatures abilities/immunities en masse by just adding the item, rather than editing each CRE individually (and tweaking those abilities/immunities en masse). And unless you crack open the CREs in DLTCEP or NI you'd never know.



#17 DavidW

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Posted 12 September 2018 - 07:23 PM

I agree. When I say I find it immersion breaking, I mean because there’s no in-game explanation of why the kobolds get to make poisonous attacks, not because of the general - and very useful - undroppable-item trick.

#18 bob_veng

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Posted 13 September 2018 - 01:23 AM

have charges been discussed (like the staff of the ram)?
also, 10-20 gp seems like a good price

#19 Luke

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Posted 13 September 2018 - 03:55 AM

have charges been discussed (like the staff of the ram)?

Well, this is not the department of SCS (I'm pretty sure IR takes care of that.....)



#20 Luke

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Posted 13 September 2018 - 04:00 AM

Luke, definitely do NOT install IR after SCS. (Unless they are your only two mods, I guess.)

Got it. I usually install the main component of IR right after spell mods (i.e., after IWDification or Shadow Magic) but before kit mods. The remaining components go right after Tweaks Anthology..........


Edited by Luke, 13 September 2018 - 04:19 AM.


#21 Luke

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Posted 13 September 2018 - 04:19 AM

Just accept that there's all different kinds pf weapons in the world, with all different levels of quality and craftsmanship and wear, and some will be slightly different from others. I mean, which weapons are you specifically talking about here? Are you actually seeing a problem that has an impact on gameplay?

Well, I think this is subjective.

 

I mean, let's consider Carsomyr as an example: it has a base damage of 1d12 instead of 1d10 like every other greatsword. Yes, sure, this is not game breaking.... Still, someone may not like it and may want all greatswords to have a base damage of 1d10  :p

 

That's why I asked @DavidW to provide a list of the items (in particular weapons/armors/shields) introduced by his mod  ----> it shouldn't be difficult to create a mini mod that can standardize everything introduced by this mod...... Once I know the item code (e.g., dw#[0-9]*[a-z]*.itm), it's just a matter of using COPY_EXISTING along with ALTER_ITEM_HEADER.......)


Edited by Luke, 13 September 2018 - 04:45 AM.


#22 bob_veng

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Posted 13 September 2018 - 04:26 AM

 

have charges been discussed (like the staff of the ram)?

Well, this is not the department of SCS (I'm pretty sure IR takes care of that.....)

 

 

IR changes the kobold dagger by turning it to a weapon with charges? I don't think so.

 

Weapons that do bonus damage and other effects and don't have a permanent dweomer or aren't magical at all have charges in PnP.



#23 Luke

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Posted 13 September 2018 - 04:40 AM

 

 

have charges been discussed (like the staff of the ram)?

Well, this is not the department of SCS (I'm pretty sure IR takes care of that.....)

 

 

IR changes the kobold dagger by turning it to a weapon with charges? I don't think so.

 

Weapons that do bonus damage and other effects and don't have a permanent dweomer or aren't magical at all have charges in PnP.

 

Sorry, for some reason I thought you were discussing about tweaking the number of charges associated to wands and other similar items......


Edited by Luke, 13 September 2018 - 04:40 AM.


#24 DavidW

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Posted 13 September 2018 - 05:51 AM

That's why I asked @DavidW to provide a list of the items (in particular weapons/armors/shields) introduced by his mod  ----> it shouldn't be difficult to create a mini mod that can standardize everything introduced by this mod...... Once I know the item code (e.g., dw#[0-9]*[a-z]*.itm), it's just a matter of using COPY_EXISTING along with ALTER_ITEM_HEADER.......)


Do your own research.

(Everything in SCS uses my modded prefix, so it shouldn't be difficult.)

Edited by DavidW, 13 September 2018 - 11:01 AM.


#25 Bartimaeus

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Posted 13 September 2018 - 10:44 AM

The beauty of modding is that you can do what you please. If you don't like the kobolds having the daggers, you can easily patch the item to not be droppable and then add DAGG01 to their inventories...or replace the dagger entirely with DAGG01, or etc. Start your own private little mini-mod that's just a conglomeration of fixes for how you want to play the game, whether it's vanilla stuff or other people's mods, ;).


Edited by Bartimaeus, 13 September 2018 - 10:44 AM.


#26 subtledoctor

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Posted 13 September 2018 - 11:29 AM

Careful.  That's the beginning of the road to becoming an actual modder.


Faiths & Powers: Spell spheres and kit pack for priests and paladins
Might & Guile: Tweaks and kits for warriors and rogues
Scales of Balance: Game tweaks and rule overhauls
NPC_EE: More options for NPCs in BGEE, SoD, & BG2EE


#27 DavidW

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Posted 14 September 2018 - 08:29 AM

Careful.  That's the beginning of the road to becoming an actual modder.


Once you start down the dark path, forever will it dominate your destiny.

#28 Luke

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Posted 14 September 2018 - 10:44 AM

 

Careful.  That's the beginning of the road to becoming an actual modder.


Once you start down the dark path, forever will it dominate your destiny.

 

Precisely  :jump:

To tell the truth, I've already written a mini mod to set the number of charges of all wands to 10 and to prevent stores from buying them..........



#29 Luke

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Posted 14 September 2018 - 10:52 AM

Anyway, since this dagger is meant to be droppable, what about giving it a unique Inventory Icon? If I'm not mistaken, it's currently using that of the ordinary dagger, which is kinda meh.......


Edited by Luke, 14 September 2018 - 10:52 AM.


#30 subtledoctor

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Posted 14 September 2018 - 11:09 AM

To tell the truth, I've already written a mini mod to set the number of charges of all wands to 10 and to prevent stores from buying them..........


Very quickly off-topic: Luke, that would go great in our "Low Magic World" collection of tweaks. PM me if you would be interested in adding it there. :)

Faiths & Powers: Spell spheres and kit pack for priests and paladins
Might & Guile: Tweaks and kits for warriors and rogues
Scales of Balance: Game tweaks and rule overhauls
NPC_EE: More options for NPCs in BGEE, SoD, & BG2EE




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