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[Idea] Sewers accesses


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#1 Arturcic

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Posted 23 July 2005 - 02:48 AM

Well, Idon't know if this is beyond the scope of the mod, but I've always HATED to have to travel to the Temple District to go into the sewers. Would it be a good idea to modify some areas (Slums, Bridge, Waukeen Prom., etc (perhaps not all of them)) to include some access to the sewers.
E.g. in the sewers below the Copper Coronet, where the kobold shaman and his friends are, at the end of that tunnel there could be a connection to the regualr sewers.
I don't know if it's a too drastic change for the intetntions of this tweaks, but it doesn't hurt to propose it.

#2 Idobek

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Posted 23 July 2005 - 03:42 AM

The Temple District is on the other side of the river to the Slums, it is unlikely the sewer system would be connected.
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#3 Arturcic

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Posted 23 July 2005 - 07:36 AM

Well, AFAIK rivers have limited depth, so the sewers could be perfectly connected.
In fact, below the tanner's house in the Bridge district, he has some undercity water connections with the exterior. Couldn't it be possible to get some kind of boat to travel from the Slums' to the Temple's sewers (and from others')?
I remember in NWN u had to travel with a boat (making some joke to Caronte and the Stinx (sp?) lake from greek mithology), so why wouldn't it be possible here?.
Just some imagination, ppl. If u can put 99999 arrows in an inch square area, why not travel with boats in some underground water system? Just place some dialog telling there's a guy offering to take u to other districts (perhaps for a small fee?) and voilà.
Like in BG 1 u used sewers to avoid Flaming Fist guys, u can use them here to avoid Cowled Wizards or City Guards. It's the typical "modus operandi" for not-so-well-liked ppl (e.g. nosferatu clan characters in Vampire-Bloodlines).

#4 Idobek

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Posted 23 July 2005 - 08:33 AM

In fact, below the tanner's house in the Bridge district, he has some undercity water connections with the exterior.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

It's a bridge. By definition the water goes under it.

Well, AFAIK rivers have limited depth, so the sewers could be perfectly connected.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I didn't say it wasn't possible I said it was unlikely. The sewer system probably empties into the river, why go to the effort of tunnelling under it?

Couldn't it be possible to get some kind of boat to travel from the Slums' to the Temple's sewers (and from others')?
I remember in NWN u had to travel with a boat (making some joke to Caronte and the Stinx (sp?) lake from greek mithology), so why wouldn't it be possible here?.
Just some imagination, ppl. If u can put 99999 arrows in an inch square area, why not travel with boats in some underground water system? Just place some dialog telling there's a guy offering to take u to other districts (perhaps for a small fee?) and voilà.
Like in BG 1 u used sewers to avoid Flaming Fist guys, u can use them here to avoid Cowled Wizards or City Guards. It's the typical "modus operandi" for not-so-well-liked ppl (e.g. nosferatu clan characters in Vampire-Bloodlines).

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I agree that Baldur's Gate's sewers were far superior, and I know that improving the Athkatla's system would be extremely popular. However, I don't believe the Northern and Southern sections of the city should or would have an underground connection. I also know that this is far outside the realms of a tweak. There was recently a couple of discussions on the Quest Pack forum about expanding the sewers, if you're interested.

Edited by Idobek, 23 July 2005 - 08:33 AM.

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#5 SixOfSpades

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Posted 24 July 2005 - 10:19 AM

I agree that a connected sewer system would be logical (well, except for the fact that 95% of Athkatla doesn't even have toilets, so why would they need sewers) and useful for both powergaming and roleplaying purposes, but no city planner in his right mind would dig the sewers to go UNDER the river. Firstly, there's no point, and second, the cost of engineering the underwater section would be more than the cost of all the rest of the system put together. Athkatla would have two separate systems, one on each side of the river.

That said, I see nothing to prevent there being so other communication under the river....it simply wouldn't be the sewers. It would most likely be accessible through the sewers, but it would be deeper. Much deeper. Like Lair of the Unseeing Eye deeper. Now that I think about it, such an underwater connection would likely be well-known to Bodhi & Co., since if Vampires can't cross over running water, they might find a way to go under it most appealing.

Regarding the Tanner's basement: BioWare was clearly smoking a great deal of crack when they designed Athkatla. If the maps are to be believed, the Slums District is directly adjacent to the Temple District--on the Northwest AND Southwest sides. The Government District seems to be floating, Laputa-style, directly over the Bridge District. This is remarkably similar to the way that BioWare appears to suggest that Hidesman's place is directly above the river, which is directly above another, underground river. This is quite obviously patent balderdash, and I dearly hope that some mod places Rejiek Hidesman's shop somewhere else, because the concept of a double-decker river is ridiculous.

#6 BigRob

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Posted 24 July 2005 - 06:02 PM

I've always thought that "cavern" under the tanner's house was just a large chamber built into the supports of the bridge and that it empties into the surface river.
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#7 5th_horseman

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Posted 27 July 2005 - 12:03 PM

On reading this I am a little confused, How many levels to the tanner's house is there, I've only encountered three, 1/ entry level, 2/ trapped level and 3/ Rune assasin level, I was under the impression that the tanner's house was built on or in a bridge support and level 3 was a landing area built around the bridge support at water level?

#8 BigRob

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Posted 27 July 2005 - 05:34 PM

There's only the three levels you mentioned. It's always dark on the bottom level though and there's some mention of "chambers" or "caverns" so it must be enclosed somehow.

Edited by BigRob, 27 July 2005 - 05:34 PM.

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#9 Guest_guest_*

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Posted 28 July 2005 - 07:58 AM

but idd you know that Mekrath's place also exits into the Bridge district?

#10 SixOfSpades

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Posted 28 July 2005 - 10:48 AM

Yes. But as far as map oddities go, that's one of the lesser ones, since the Temple District is north of the Bridge District, so an exit from Mekrath's lair could concievably take you to a balcony at the north end of the Bridge District.

This may have not been a total goof by BioWare: Since canon Bards are allowed to Climb Walls, perhaps that exit was to suggest that Haer'Dalis left the Five Flagons, climbed up to the balcony, and crept into Mekrath's lair to find the Gem.

#11 Evaine Dian

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Posted 28 July 2005 - 04:32 PM

I remember in NWN u had to travel with a boat (making some joke to Caronte and the Stinx (sp?) lake from greek mithology), so why wouldn't it be possible here?.


If we mean the same thing, it's called "Styx"; it's a river, not a lake.

#12 Arturcic

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Posted 01 August 2005 - 01:51 PM

Well, in greek mythology the Styx is a lake, which Caronte helps the souls to cross with his boat for one coin (that's why in the classic Greece, in the burial ppl put a coin in the dead person's mouth). That's the standard version. BUT, in Plato's philosophy, a dead's soul would travel the Styx RIVER waiting for its reincarnation. So there's an ambiguity, but greek mythology is much older than Plato, so I prefer the "classic" version.

#13 Kish

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Posted 01 August 2005 - 05:25 PM

In D&D, the Styx is a river.
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#14 Arturcic

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Posted 01 August 2005 - 10:06 PM

Well, yes, and in the film "Troy" with Brad Pitt, Agamemnon dies in the city invasion, his brother Menelao is killed by Hector and Aquilles survives so far as to enter Troy inside the wooden horse. These things are called "crimes against Humanity", but I suppose all the stupid Hollywood writers thought nobody would understand how could Agamemnon, that "evil bastard" (remember who kidnapped Helen and who was insulted), could survive and return victorious to Micenas (Greece didn't exist not even as a region back in the 12th century B.C.), same with Menelao (his borther and Helen's husband).
Who cares about reality, Brad Pitt had a contract to be alive the whole picture, so let's ignore almost 3000 years of knowledge ( "The Illiad" was written in the 8th century B.C.).
If Hollywood says that and D&D tells Styx was a river, I don't give a shit, I prefer to stay by the real facts and, if I have to choose between following D&D standards or respect cultural facts, well, my opinion is pretty clear.
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#15 Drew

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Posted 01 August 2005 - 11:02 PM

Umm.......reality doesn't really come into play when talking about the illiad. Frankly, no one knows what happened, and there isn't any evidence to prove it even happened at all. :) At any rate since BG2 is a D&D product in a D&D campaign setting it is only logical to refer to canon D&D when adding content to the game.



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