SR V4 Open Beta (last update 25 October 2018)

[Demivrgvs]

This seems to be a fantastic initiative, and I would like to help with testing. Please let me know how I can help (where to download files, which specific spells to test if any, and time limit if any). Thanks!

We are about to finish the beta phase for both IR and SR, but if you want to try them out I'll send you a PM with the links.

 

@kreso, I obviously give priority to fix stuff and polish everything, but you know me, changes can always be around the corner. Jokes aside, we already covered 90% of what I wanted to do with pre-existing spells, the only real thing I regret is not having new bams/icons for implementing the planned new spells.

[Dakk]

 

This seems to be a fantastic initiative, and I would like to help with testing. Please let me know how I can help (where to download files, which specific spells to test if any, and time limit if any). Thanks!

[T]he only real thing I regret is not having new bams/icons for implementing the planned new spells.

 

Didn't we (the xR collective ) have this awesome person who made bams? With the mushroom avatar..? Anywho, there's nothing that can be scrounged from IWD(II)?

[kreso]

Ok...'ere we go. Part 1. Difficulty:Core

My testing Weidu :

 

 

// Log of Currently Installed WeiDU Mods
// The top of the file is the 'oldest' mod
// ~TP2_File~ #language_number #component_number // [subcomponent Name -> ] Component Name [ : Version]
~SETUP-DUNGEONBEGONE.TP2~ #0 #0 // Dungeon Be Gone V1.6
~ITEM_REV/ITEM_REV.TP2~ #0 #0 // Item Revisions by Demivrgvs: V4 Beta 3
~ITEM_REV/ITEM_REV.TP2~ #0 #1030 // Store Revisions: V4 Beta 3
~ITEM_REV/ITEM_REV.TP2~ #0 #1042 // Revised Armor -> Without Movement Speed Penalties: V4 Beta 3
~ITEM_REV/ITEM_REV.TP2~ #0 #10 // Revised Shield Bonuses: V4 Beta 3
~ITEM_REV/ITEM_REV.TP2~ #0 #11 // Dual Wielding Changes for Light and Heavy Weapons: V4 Beta 3
~ITEM_REV/ITEM_REV.TP2~ #0 #12 // Items of Protection Can Be Worn with Magical Armor: V4 Beta 3
~ITEM_REV/ITEM_REV.TP2~ #0 #1091 // Remove Weapon Restrictions from Multi-classed Divine Spellcasters -> Clerics and Druids: V4 Beta 3
~ITEM_REV/ITEM_REV.TP2~ #0 #15 // PnP Equipment for Druids -> Druids Only: V4 Beta 3
~ITEM_REV/ITEM_REV.TP2~ #0 #1060 // Kensai Can Wear Bracers: V4 Beta 3
~ITEM_REV/ITEM_REV.TP2~ #0 #1070 // Thieves Can Use Wands: V4 Beta 3
~ITEM_REV/ITEM_REV.TP2~ #0 #17 // Weapon Changes: V4 Beta 3
~ITEM_REV/ITEM_REV.TP2~ #0 #1080 // Enchantment Doesn't Affect Speed Factor of Weapons: V4 Beta 3
~SPELL_REV/SETUP-SPELL_REV.TP2~ #0 #0 // Spell Revisions: v4 Beta 5
~SPELL_REV/SETUP-SPELL_REV.TP2~ #0 #10 // Deva and Planetar Animations: v4 Beta 5
~SPELL_REV/SETUP-SPELL_REV.TP2~ #0 #20 // Mirror Image Fix: v4 Beta 5
~SPELL_REV/SETUP-SPELL_REV.TP2~ #0 #30 // Dispel Magic Fix: v4 Beta 5
~SPELL_REV/SETUP-SPELL_REV.TP2~ #0 #50 // Remove Disabled Spells from Spell Selection Screens: v4 Beta 5
~SPELL_REV/SETUP-SPELL_REV.TP2~ #0 #60 // Spell Deflection blocks AoE spells: v4 Beta 5
~SPELL_REV/SETUP-SPELL_REV.TP2~ #0 #70 // Update Spellbooks of Joinable NPCs: v4 Beta 5
~KIT_REV/KIT_REV.TP2~ #0 #0 // Kit Revisions: Beta 21
~KIT_REV/KIT_REV.TP2~ #0 #100 // Revised Grandmastery: Beta 21
~KIT_REV/KIT_REV.TP2~ #0 #110 // Revised THAC0 tables: Beta 21
~KIT_REV/KIT_REV.TP2~ #0 #120 // Revised Saving Throws: Beta 21
~SETUP-REFINEMENTS.TP2~ #0 #10 // Revised High Level Abilities: Refinements v 3.31
~SETUP-REFINEMENTS.TP2~ #0 #30 // Shapeshifting fix -> Heal on shifting back to human (Default): Refinements v 3.31
~BG2_TWEAKS/SETUP-BG2_TWEAKS.TP2~ #0 #1220 // Allow Cromwell to Upgrade Watcher's Keep Items: v14
~BG2_TWEAKS/SETUP-BG2_TWEAKS.TP2~ #0 #3060 // Remove "You Must Gather Your Party..." Sound (Weimer): v14
~BG2_TWEAKS/SETUP-BG2_TWEAKS.TP2~ #0 #3080 // Unlimited Ammo Stacking: v14
~BG2_TWEAKS/SETUP-BG2_TWEAKS.TP2~ #0 #3090 // Unlimited Gem and Jewelry Stacking: v14
~BG2_TWEAKS/SETUP-BG2_TWEAKS.TP2~ #0 #3100 // Unlimited Potion Stacking: v14
~BG2_TWEAKS/SETUP-BG2_TWEAKS.TP2~ #0 #3110 // Unlimited Scroll Stacking: v14
~BG2_TWEAKS/SETUP-BG2_TWEAKS.TP2~ #0 #3140 // Faster Chapter 1&2 Cut-Scenes and Dreams -> Originals from EoU (Karzak, Blucher): v14
~BG2_TWEAKS/SETUP-BG2_TWEAKS.TP2~ #0 #3170 // No Drow Avatars On Party In Underdark: v14
~STRATAGEMS/SETUP-STRATAGEMS.TP2~ #0 #1000 // Initialise mod (all other components require this): v28
~STRATAGEMS/SETUP-STRATAGEMS.TP2~ #0 #2170 // True Sight/True Seeing spells protect from magical blindness: v28
~STRATAGEMS/SETUP-STRATAGEMS.TP2~ #0 #4010 // Grant large, flying, non-solid or similar creatures protection from Web and Entangle: v28
~STRATAGEMS/SETUP-STRATAGEMS.TP2~ #0 #5000 // Ease-of-use party AI: v28
~STRATAGEMS/SETUP-STRATAGEMS.TP2~ #0 #5010 // Move Boo into Minsc's pack: v28
~STRATAGEMS/SETUP-STRATAGEMS.TP2~ #0 #5020 // Remove the blur graphic effect from the Cloak of Displacement: v28
~STRATAGEMS/SETUP-STRATAGEMS.TP2~ #0 #5900 // Initialise AI components (required for all tactical and AI components): v28
~STRATAGEMS/SETUP-STRATAGEMS.TP2~ #0 #6000 // Smarter general AI: v28
~STRATAGEMS/SETUP-STRATAGEMS.TP2~ #0 #6010 // Better calls for help: v28
~STRATAGEMS/SETUP-STRATAGEMS.TP2~ #0 #6024 // Add high-level abilities (HLAs) to spellcasters -> All eligible spellcasters in Throne of Bhaal and Shadows of Amn get HLAs (very challenging and not really recommended!): v28
~STRATAGEMS/SETUP-STRATAGEMS.TP2~ #0 #6030 // Smarter Mages -> Mages cast some short-duration spells instantly at start of combat, to simulate pre-battle casting: v28
~STRATAGEMS/SETUP-STRATAGEMS.TP2~ #0 #6040 // Smarter Priests -> Priests cast some short-duration spells instantly at start of combat, to simulate pre-battle casting: v28
~STRATAGEMS/SETUP-STRATAGEMS.TP2~ #0 #6102 // Potions for NPCs -> Half the potions dropped by slain enemies break and are lost: v28
~STRATAGEMS/SETUP-STRATAGEMS.TP2~ #0 #6200 // Improved Spiders: v28
~STRATAGEMS/SETUP-STRATAGEMS.TP2~ #0 #6500 // Improved golems: v28
~STRATAGEMS/SETUP-STRATAGEMS.TP2~ #0 #6510 // Improved fiends -> Fiends have about 50 percent more hit points than normal: v28
~STRATAGEMS/SETUP-STRATAGEMS.TP2~ #0 #6520 // Smarter genies -> Genies have about 50 percent more hit points than normal: v28
~STRATAGEMS/SETUP-STRATAGEMS.TP2~ #0 #6530 // Smarter celestials -> Celestials have about 50 percent more hit points than normal: v28
~STRATAGEMS/SETUP-STRATAGEMS.TP2~ #0 #6540 // Smarter dragons -> Dragons have a substantial hit point increase: v28
~STRATAGEMS/SETUP-STRATAGEMS.TP2~ #0 #6570 // Smarter githyanki: v28
~STRATAGEMS/SETUP-STRATAGEMS.TP2~ #0 #6590 // Smarter Throne of Bhaal final villain: v28
~STRATAGEMS/SETUP-STRATAGEMS.TP2~ #0 #8010 // Improved Shade Lord: v28
~STRATAGEMS/SETUP-STRATAGEMS.TP2~ #0 #8020 // Spellcasting Demiliches: v28
~STRATAGEMS/SETUP-STRATAGEMS.TP2~ #0 #8050 // Improved Random Encounters: v28
~STRATAGEMS/SETUP-STRATAGEMS.TP2~ #0 #8060 // Improved de'Arnise Keep ("Tactics Remix") -> Spirit trolls have the same powers as in the original game: v28
~STRATAGEMS/SETUP-STRATAGEMS.TP2~ #0 #8100 // Improved battle with Irenicus in Spellhold: v28
~STRATAGEMS/SETUP-STRATAGEMS.TP2~ #0 #8110 // Improved Sahuagin: v28
~STRATAGEMS/SETUP-STRATAGEMS.TP2~ #0 #8140 // Slightly Improved Drow -> Upgrade Ust Natha's defences: v28
~STRATAGEMS/SETUP-STRATAGEMS.TP2~ #0 #8150 // Slightly Improved Watcher's Keep: v28
~STRATAGEMS/SETUP-STRATAGEMS.TP2~ #0 #8160 // Improved Fire Giant temple: v28
~STRATAGEMS/SETUP-STRATAGEMS.TP2~ #0 #8170 // Enhanced Sendai's Enclave: v28
~STRATAGEMS/SETUP-STRATAGEMS.TP2~ #0 #8180 // Improved Abazigal's Lair: v28
~STRATAGEMS/SETUP-STRATAGEMS.TP2~ #0 #8190 // Improved Minor Encounters: v28

 

 

 

 

Party I played was Cavalier protaginst, Keldorn, Valygar, Aerie, Cernd. Set sail to Spellhold at level 11/12, making Underdark quite a difficult endeavor but I wanted Imoen fast. Replaced Valy with Sarevok in ToB to speed up the game slightly. Overall difficulty - kind of odd, but I found Underdark Drow to be very annoying to deal with (physical resistance is applied twice on their armor, in addition to outstanding AC- I'd vote removal, and let patching do it's job). I also had low-level casters which further contributed to hard times I had there. Both Keldorn (LoH for KR tweaked to "Remove sec.type- disabling, same as Break Enchantement) and Cernd were crucial figures.

This got much easier upon exiting Underdark, then again awfully hard vs Slayer Irenicus (Timestop + melee. It can be deactivated via console, but I wanted to go through it.). In that fight, my protagonist actually died for the first time - the run was a No-Reload 'till then. Mind you, this isn't a proof of anything other than how tanky KR Cavalier is; other party members, especially Aerie, died very often - altough never chunked. Odd - maybe EE did something to reduce chunking chance.

ToB levels - replaced Valygar for Sarevok. More reloads, more deaths. Fire Giants HLA usage is very annoying to deal with if one doesn't mass ADHWs or sequencered Skull Traps. Tough, but we eventually got through, slain by Imix again, then on the next reload it was succesfull. Nyalee's Mirror created a copy of Sarevok which hit him with a Deathbringer assault. How he survived (basically, he had 30% damage res, but still....) is a miracle. Another really hard (and epic, I'd say) was Sendai battle. With so many statues and HLA Drows wading in, this was probably the most enjoyable battle in the game, lasting about 20 RL minutes. More than 5 reloads as well (it should probably be done after WK anyway). An oddity - her final form was actually the weakest. However, drow wizards and Critical Strike usage fighters were a huge pain to deal with without Dragon's Breath/Comet available. I spent almost all my potions there. Keldorn's Deva and Cernd's mass summons (used to protect him) were the keys to victory.

WK was done without almost any trouble.

Draconis forced a first chunk-reload, naturally, Aeire got wasted. Hard fight, as always - constant Non-Detection/invisiblilty/heal/breath spam with a difficult to resist damage type (acid). 2 reloads.

Balthazar - awfuly played, I had no more Haste usage, 3 reloads. We couldn't get a hit in. I finally manage to corner him, Aerie still died.

Melissan - meh. Since Ascension isn't really compatible with EE (don't trust what people say) battle was a chore, and her first incarnation was actually the hardest. Fallen Solar coud only hit protagonist on above 15 rolls with her vorpal bow....

Final Mel incarnation took about 15 seconds to bring down. Disrupted 1st spell (I'd guess Time Stop) and melee.-whack to oblivion.

My Cavalier protagonist had about -17 natural AC (his DEX was 9 after reduction), and hit the cap with his Shield of Faith spell, obtaining a semi-permanent -20 - enough to tank through pretty much everything.

He wielded Foebane for much of the game, replaced only in ToB after forging FoA +5, which is usually a better choice. Other notable equipment - Ring of Free action (this covers a big hole in Cavalier's defences), Enkidu's armor, Darksteel Shield.

Incredibly hard to bring down.

Keldorn - I used his own armor (MRD needs to be toned down, SCS won't cast against it) for much of the game, replaced by Shurrupak's after Yaga Sura died. Used Carsomyr and it's upgraded version usually, also had used Psion's Blade a lot in SoA.

Sarevok - Death Knight's armor and Vorpal sword, together with Cloak of Mirroring. Outstanding combo, further protected by Greenstone amulet. Still vulnerable to melee, but not much survives against him to make use of it.

Special note goes to Valygar. He could probably solo-win me a lot of battles I guess. I used him to test out bows as well.

 

Off to spells:

I'll go spell by spell here.

 

Armor of Faith - this is kind of situational spell. But it's power is undeniable, exellent scaling with armor and Hardiness. Low duration means paladins will have to be careful about it's use. I like it, used it (saved my ass against Slayer Timestop) and would keep it as it is now.

 

Sanctuary - lovely little spell. Contingency for Aeire made in heaven.

 

Sunscorch - favourite druidic level 1 spell. I suggested a slight decrease in casting time, while nerfing the blindness effect to 1 round.

 

Barkskin - lowered duration to 5 turns. While this isn't really too short, it prevents spam, and it's casting time makes it very unwieldly to cast in the thick of combat. Still powerful tough (it's a free potion of defence).

 

Fire Trap - much more useful in BG1, this spell still has it's use in BG2. Weakness is bad damage type, and the fact it won't go through Minor Globe. Kind of handy when you need to kill skeletons, or warding off something.

 

Goodberry - meh.

 

Resist Fire and Cold - must-have. One cannot play SCS modded game without this anymore. Casting time - 2 (my proposed tweak) makes this into a real mid-combat buff.

 

Silence - decent against priests, not so much against mages who will simply vocalize. Hard to resist.

 

Animate Dead - very useful. Cheap slot, and these little skellies own in BG1 (immune to a crapload of bas stuff, including petrification gaze)

 

Break Enchantement - must have. One of the spells which changed gameplay the most probably, hard-counter to most of low-level ill effects.

 

Glyph of Warding - a beefed up Firetrap, with much better damage type. I like it. Kind of spammable, given the lack of offensive cleric power at low levels.

 

Storm Shield - ahahahaa...this is tailor-made for rangers. Not only does it cover a hloe on their defence (missiles) but also makes their breath saves much better. Made of win.

 

Cloak of Fear - nice, altough costly. I'm not sure if rangers should get this.

 

Free Action - this is a must have ofc, but lasts way too long. 5 turns; no Stun immunity?

 

NPP - ditto above. Simply lasts too long, making items with NPP very situational.

 

Chaotic Commands - again, too long. For the power this spell brings, I'd reduce the duration to 2 turns, since it's insane. Partially nerfed due to Break Enchantement, but still grand.

 

Insects - cute. I love these spells now. Imo, they should be targetable on ground, and both Fireshield-Red and Aura of Flaming death should make one immune to them.

 

Pixie dust - this is good, but due to overcrowdness of 5th level spells, kind of late-game specific.

 

True Seeing - a must have. For all druids, clerics, and mages - going to battle without this spell is basically pointless now. Only the caster benefits from it (apart the fact it removes MI and invisibility potions)

 

Blade Barrier - imo, damage is slightly too low (and is reduced further by armor). I'd add 2-4 damage to it.

 

Animate Skeletal warrior - this is an anti-magic summon. Very lovely, but AI has a hard counter with Death Knights, which pawn them.

 

Heal - t-up. This is much more usable now.

 

Physical Mirror - whooa. Exellent. I used this even on Aeire. Very useful spell.

 

Sol's Orb - big bang of druids. non-party friendly, with a non-friendly casting time. Kind of situational due to druids killing off their own summons with it. Basically, if you want to use it, use it before enemy closes in.

 

Earthquake - kind of a pseudo-disable + damage. AI uses this to great effect, I kind of like Storm of Vengeance a bit more, but it's probably only a matter of opinion.

 

Finger of Death - I'd vote -2 penalty, while buffing the damage done. Otherwise situational, and has very little effect against numerous oponnents; making it scale very badly into late-game.

 

Shield of Archons - powerful emergency buff. Definitely worth a slot.

 

Sound Burst - I suggested this to be targetable on the ground, and the duration of deafness be slightly reduced.

 

Web - due to some buggyness, I'd remove slowing effect, which also makes this spell a simply better Grease version

 

Flame Arrow - it's good to go imo.

 

Haste - what I'd add here is that fatigue effect prevents being hasted again (otherwise, being hasted pretty much negates the fatigue effects)

 

Non-detection - ok, just must be spell protection.

 

Skull trap - to slightly beef up this spell, I'd add 1 point per level of slash damage.

 

confusion/chaos - t-up for lower durations. Much less game-breaking spells, especially Chaos which bypasses GoI.

 

Teleport Field - I hate this spell. Lower duration?

 

Pro Normal weapons - this is kind of useful due to fact Nishruu doesn't get through it. Other than that, meh.

 

Dispel screen - I'll get back on this.

 

Banishment - it can't allow a save for AI's sake.

 

Disintegrate - nice. I love this spell.

 

Flesh to Stone - arguably, one of the best made spells in V4. No longer a game ender on failed save, hard to counter, maybe add a "killing effect" after some time (1 turn).

 

PW:Stun - this is kind of an anti-mage spell, and it remained such. Costly at level 7.

 

Bigby's Icy Grasp - the only thing this needs is SCS take damage type into account, otherwise awesome. Finally a decent ice damage spell at high levels.

 

Apsolute immunity - I think on mages other than dual f-m's this beats Timestop. This would be my first pick with a sorcerer if I had one.

 

PW:Kill - I don't like the change (save or get killed instantly). How about "set HP to x percentage", then apply a "kill under treshold" effect instead?

Even tough, I think this spell was powerful enough as it is....

 

Banshee- it's fine.

 

 

Part 2 coming up........

[spanyam]

 

This seems to be a fantastic initiative, and I would like to help with testing. Please let me know how I can help (where to download files, which specific spells to test if any, and time limit if any). Thanks!

We are about to finish the beta phase for both IR and SR, but if you want to try them out I'll send you a PM with the links.

 

@kreso, I obviously give priority to fix stuff and polish everything, but you know me, changes can always be around the corner. Jokes aside, we already covered 90% of what I wanted to do with pre-existing spells, the only real thing I regret is not having new bams/icons for implementing the planned new spells.

 

Oh I see. If that's the case, then I can help to test Kit Revisions instead (unless that too is close to finishing). For whichever can use an extra pair of eyes, I can help test it.

[kreso]

Part 2 : AI consistency / potions / specific spells

 

Apart for Fog Cloud issues we encountered, there's little to add. Most of the reworked spells still keep their base job, and do it well (apart Banishment). One notable thing is Dispelling screen (substitute for SI:Abj). This needs to last longer so AI can make use of it. 1 turn is simply too short to be noticable, especially late-game when it's best countarable by "waiting it out".

Otoh, the spell is in fact slightly more powerful since it protects against Carsomyr and simlar dispel-per-hit effects (a number of ToB oponnents have those). It does not protect against Imprisonment anymore (nor friendly abjurations cast by others). Imo, it's also cast too damn fast. To keep the spell more in line with old SI:Abj, I'd make it more lasting (5 turns) and would increase it's casting time to 5 or 6. This way it becomes a prebuff. Regardless of all, duration needs to be buffed.

Spell Deflections/AoE thingie - I'd probably need more playtesting to fully express my opinion on this. From what I've witnessed, Globes are usually better (in my install, AI mages loved to cast plenty of cloud-type spells, which eat Deflections very quickly). I do love the component, imo how it should have worked from the start. One point to note is that they do not protect against caster's own spells - but Globes do. Best used combined.

Tenser's Transformation not disabling spellcasting - this was Imoen's spell of choice for ToB. Kind of nice, I didn't really find it overpowering tbh. Can't vauch for f-m duals.

 

Potions

 

Am I the only one who would remove Apsorption potion's 20% extra DR? On a fighter with 60% (note, this is vanilla Hardiness + Revised Armor, not counting any other item), drinking this makes his HP pool essentially double. Now, considering this can be made non-stackable with Hardiness, that could solve the issue, but I wouldn't really be pleased with it (potion almost substituting a HLA). What I'd vote for is making it unusable by fighters/paladins/rangers. Clean solution, keeps potion useful for other classes (Swashbuckler, clerics, monks can all benefit hugely from this) but prevents fighters going overboard. Fwiw, I never used this particular potion in my run. Things would only get worse without KR Hardiness tweak, hence I think my suggestion is good.

In additon, I'd put KR Hardiness into IR .tp2 file. Armor resistance makes up for it anyway. Or at least print a warning about it.

 

Other than that, potions seem ok. I bought only healing potions in this game, and ran almost out of them in the end.

 

 

Druids regenerate wounds - umm...well. I never liked "slow" regeneration items (1/12 sec) and these spells make them completely opsolete. I do like regenerate spells in general. They simply tend to make regen items, which must be equiped, useless.

In addition, Death Knight's armor should make the user immune to them as well.

 

Summoning spells - overall, nice. Very powerful, especially Ogres in BG1 (these are better fighters than your own party!), and Mass Elemental summoning is also fantastic. I didn't use Demons (Paladins and all....) but AI makes heavy use of Death Knights, which make short work out of anything not fire-immune.

Devas and Planetars - not much to say, I'd probably vote for duration slightly lower or "can't be re.-cast for one week" or similar, but I 'd guess they play a huge role in late-game so...

 

Part 3 coming soon....

[kreso]

test Kit Revisions instead (unless that too is close to finishing

Bless you man. But I'm afraid not so close. It's playable, and I don't think coding up thieves and clerics would take much work, at least as a "preliminary" releases. Bards could take some while, and I have no idea about mages.

[spanyam]

Potions

 

Am I the only one who would remove Apsorption potion's 20% extra DR? On a fighter with 60% (note, this is vanilla Hardiness + Revised Armor, not counting any other item), drinking this makes his HP pool essentially double. Now, considering this can be made non-stackable with Hardiness, that could solve the issue, but I wouldn't really be pleased with it (potion almost substituting a HLA). What I'd vote for is making it unusable by fighters/paladins/rangers. Clean solution, keeps potion useful for other classes (Swashbuckler, clerics, monks can all benefit hugely from this) but prevents fighters going overboard. Fwiw, I never used this particular potion in my run. Things would only get worse without KR Hardiness tweak, hence I think my suggestion is good.

In additon, I'd put KR Hardiness into IR .tp2 file. Armor resistance makes up for it anyway. Or at least print a warning about it.

Is it possible to make DR % compounding in the game engine? That way, the effects are mitigated. To take the example from your other post, let's say you have:

 

- Full Plate - 20

- shield -10

- helmet - 10

- KR Hardiness - 20

- Potion of Absorbtion - 20

- Armor of Faith - 20

 

With straight addition, you get 100. But if you compound, you get 1 * 0.8 * 0.9 * 0.9 * 0.8 * 0.8 * 0.8 = 0.33 (aproximately). With this, you effectively have 67% DR rather than 100%. I am not sure if this is at all possible with our current coding limitations with the engine, but it's something to consider. The nice thing about compounding is that effects are not so drastic when you wear just a few items. For example, 20% from full plate * 10% from shield * 10% from helmet puts you at 36% DR vs 40% with addition. But the compounding will prevent stacking to extreme levels, as the closer you get to 100, the less the payout is.

 

 

test Kit Revisions instead (unless that too is close to finishing

Bless you man. But I'm afraid not so close. It's playable, and I don't think coding up thieves and clerics would take much work, at least as a "preliminary" releases. Bards could take some while, and I have no idea about mages.

 

Sure, no problem if it isn't close. I will just set up a multi-install instance and run the basic setup (BGT + critical fixes + SCS + KR). I can also test with all 3 *R installed if that's recommended. If I can get a PM with the latest beta link, I can get started.

Edited September 23, 2014 by spanyam

[nakedDave]

 

Summoning spells - overall, nice. Very powerful, especially Ogres in BG1 (these are better fighters than your own party!), and Mass Elemental summoning is also fantastic. I didn't use Demons (Paladins and all....) but AI makes heavy use of Death Knights, which make short work out of anything not fire-immune.

Devas and Planetars - not much to say, I'd probably vote for duration slightly lower or "can't be re.-cast for one week" or similar, but I 'd guess they play a huge role in late-game so...

 

Part 3 coming soon....

Hang on a sec - are you using a more up to date version of the beta? DK's are completely unusable by AI in the version I've got

What about AI-summoned Simulacra? They were broken for me too - have there been some fixes since then?

[kreso]

With straight addition, you get 100. But if you compound, you get 1 * 0.8 * 0.9 * 0.9 * 0.8 * 0.8 * 0.8 = 0.33 (aproximately). With this, you effectively have 67% DR rather than 100%. I am not sure if this is at all possible with our current coding limitations with the engine, but it's something to consider.

Ahaaaa...."diminishing returns". I also tought about it. Not really plausible I think. But the idea is great.

 

 

Hang on a sec - are you using a more up to date version of the beta? DK's are completely unusable by AI in the version I've got

What about AI-summoned Simulacra? They were broken for me too - have there been some fixes since then?

 

AI Simmy is broken, yes. Honestly I hate both Simmy, PI and Mislead alltogehter, I do miss SCSv21 option to have mages w/o simmys. DKs work fine for me.

[spanyam]

 

With straight addition, you get 100. But if you compound, you get 1 * 0.8 * 0.9 * 0.9 * 0.8 * 0.8 * 0.8 = 0.33 (aproximately). With this, you effectively have 67% DR rather than 100%. I am not sure if this is at all possible with our current coding limitations with the engine, but it's something to consider.

Ahaaaa...."diminishing returns". I also tought about it. Not really plausible I think. But the idea is great.

Ahh bummer.

[Demivrgvs]

Armor of Faith

I'm fine leaving it as it is now, though I'm also tempted to remove elemental resistances (see Resist Fire/Cold below) while keeping magic dmg resistance (kinda fitting for a cleric considering Cause Wound spells and necromancy in general use that dmg type). In exchange I'd raise its duration from 2 turns to 5.

 

Sanctuary

lovely little spell. Contingency for Aeire made in heaven.

lol Jokes aside, I do think this spell is indeed great now. Instant casting time and short duration make it work much better for its intended purpose while preventing exploits or "better stealth than a thief".

 

Sunscorch

I'm still not convinced about improving the casting time. Unless the current cs make it really unpractical to use I'd probably prefer to keep its "on hit" effectiveness high rather than having to lower it to favor "quick spam". I don't want it to look like a fire-based Magic Missile, and I think it's more unique as a "heavy hitter slower casting" variant. That being said, I'm indeed going to slightly revise the dmg progression and its blindness secondary effect.

 

Barkskin

I do expected it to be fine now yes. On a side note the slower progression is supposed to limit its power within BG1 but it obviously require either TweakPack "druids use cleric xp table" or KR.

 

Resist Fire and Cold

I'm glad that such a simple tweak seems to have hugely improved its appeal. You may have noticed that the current build actually calls this spell Resist Elements - am I the only one that would prefer this spell to grant 25% res to all 4 elements?

 

Cloak of Fear

I thought I already removed it from both Paladin and Ranger within KR, I'll check.

 

Free Action

Lately A LOT of players are asking to slightly lower the duration of priest's long lasting buffs (up to 20 turns - aka 4 hours). My only doubt is that lowering the duration to 5 turns doesn't make any real difference other than making it last 1-2 encounters instead of 2-3. Am I missing something?

 

I see what you have in mind with "no stun immunity", I have to think about it. I had instead a related thought about Chaotic Command (e.g. it should prevent PW:Stun but not Celestial Fury's stun imo).

 

Negative Plane Protection

See above. Btw, the real issue of this spell imo is that it's both extremely situational and almost OP the few times you need it. Unfortunately I cannot make it work as per PnP - at least not without editing undead creatures themselves, and with Arda almost never around Creature Revision will never see the light for sure.

 

I thought about adding here resistance to "negative dmg spells" but not all magic dmg spells are automatically of that type (e.g. MM, Holy Smite, Disintegrate). I probably cannot do much here.

 

Chaotic Commands

This spell is clearly borderline OP considering it's a 5th level Mind Blank, which is 3 levels higher in PnP, but for AI sake I cannot do much about it. If there's a consensus

 

Insect spells

I though I already made Fire Shields grant immunity to these spells. Will do it for next build.

 

Pixie Dust

Sharing the same spell level of Insect Plague, Stoneskin and True Seeing obviously make it hard for this spell to get used, but I undeniably made it as powerful as it can be.

True Seeing - a must have. For all druids, clerics, and mages - going to battle without this spell is basically pointless now. Only the caster benefits from it (apart the fact it removes MI and invisibility potions)

 

Physical Mirror

whooa. Exellent. I used this even on Aeire. Very useful spell.

As expected.

 

Sol's Orb

big bang of druids. non-party friendly, with a non-friendly casting time. Kind of situational due to druids killing off their own summons with it. Basically, if you want to use it, use it before enemy closes in.

What about making it last a bit more (e.g. 1 turn?) so that it can be cast beforehand and then used later instantaneously?

 

Btw, use Fire Elementals as summons if you plan to use this no?

 

Earthquake

SCS uses this? And with good results despite the unfriendly AoE? Wow.

 

Sound Burst

I agree on both making it not require a target and reducing deafness duration. Cool to see a previously useless spell turning out as one of your favorite 2nd lvl spells?

 

Web

I'm inclined to agree with you. I have to live with BG's Web paralyzing creatures instead of entangling them, thus it probably do not need the reduced movement speed - though I find strange to move within a webbed area at full speed...

 

Haste

I thought its fatigue already protected from re-casting the spell. Will fix.

 

Skull Trap

While I understand the concept behind adding a small amount of slashing dmg, why do you feel this spell needs a boost? Unless you are fighting undead creatures this spell is already better than Fireball in almost every way imo.

 

Confusion/Chaos

t-up for lower durations. Much less game-breaking spells, especially Chaos which bypasses GoI.

Good, though I still want to do something about Chaos. It makes Confusion almost pointless and I hate it. We'll see.

 

Teleport Field

I hate this spell. Lower duration?

It already lasts a single turn. I nerfed it a lot by adding a save (albeit not an easy one) and I really do not want to nerf it more. You consider this extremely powerful (and it is if used well) but there are tons of players that feel I already nerfed it too much.

 

Protection from Normal Weapons

I guess the "can be used with PfMW" didn't changed its value much considering the AI treats PfMW as a vanilla Absolute Immunity. :/

 

Does the AI ever use it? Does the "immunity to non-magical weapons" has to remain for DS/AI sake?

 

There are multiple ways to hopefully give this spell (or at least its "spell slot") a purpose, but some of them may be very daring (e.g. replace it with the planned Swift Etherealness).

 

Dispelling Screen

Higher duration (2 turns?), worse casting time (5) and immunity to Breach.

 

Banishment

I wanted to at least try to allow a save, but I'm fine going back to no save.

 

Disintegrate

nice. I love this spell.

 

Flesh to Stone

Arguably, one of the best made spells in V4. No longer a game ender on failed save, hard to counter, maybe add a "killing effect" after some time (1 turn).

Sweet, I feared I did something too odd but it looks like I didn't.

 

Well, considering it already looks an almost perfect copy of 5th edition FtS I may say that within that PnP version this spell can outright kill the target if the caster concentrate on the target for a while after turning it into stone. I'll think about it.

 

Bigby's Icy Grasp

Finally a decent ice damage spell at high levels.

Cool. Another player suggested to make it at least deal half dmg on a successful save and I agree considering how "expensive" an 8th lvl single target spell is.

 

Regarding the "freezed" target animation, does it look fine? Should I edit the colors bit more?

 

Absolute Immunity

I think on mages other than dual f-m's this beats Timestop. This would be my first pick with a sorcerer if I had one.

I didn't expected it to become so appealing without also adding Free Action and Chaotic Command to it, but if other players consider it like you even better.

 

PW:Kill

How about "set HP to x percentage", then apply a "kill under treshold" effect instead?

The latter cannot be done.

 

Regenerate Wounds

I never liked "slow" regeneration items (1/12 sec) and these spells make them completely obsolete. I do like regenerate spells in general. They simply tend to make regen items, which must be equiped, useless.

In addition, Death Knight's armor should make the user immune to them as well.

You have a point, though these spells last 1-3 turns, not forever. Anyway, I'll think about it a bit more. Casiel's Soul (aka the Death Knight armor) blocks Necromancy stuff, while these spells belong to Alteration.

 

Summoning spells

overall, nice. Very powerful, especially Ogres in BG1 (these are better fighters than your own party!), and Mass Elemental summoning is also fantastic. I didn't use Demons (Paladins and all....) but AI makes heavy use of Death Knights, which make short work out of anything not fire-immune.

Good. If those ogres turn out to be too good let me know.

 

Devas and Planetars

I'd probably vote for duration slightly lower or "can't be re.-cast for one week" or similar, but I 'd guess they play a huge role in late-game so...

SCS already implemented something I suggested to DavidW ages ago, and that I still don't know if it should be part of SR or KR: making mage spell-like HLAs not take 9th level spell slots, but work as 1/day innate abilities.

[subtledoctor]

Hey Demi, do you think I could get access to the SR and IR betas? Unfortunately I don't have time to actually beta-test for you (because I don't have time to, y'know, play the game )

 

But I'd like to be able to really test for full compatibility with my mod, since I (only half-jokingly) want my install instructions to be something like:

 

1) install SR

2) install IR

3) install my mod

 

I'd also love to look at KR to get a better sense of what exactly it does, and how modular its components are - e.g., see if it would be possible to mix and match by class, like use KR's thieves but SoB's clerics.

Edited September 24, 2014 by subtledoctor

[kreso]

Demi's suggestions:

 

AoF from 2 to 5 turns, no elemental resist - fine by me, go for it.

Res Fire&Cold - well, I did suggest you call this "Minor elemental barrier". I don't see 4 elements tough (I don't really see Acid as element, I don't think even 7th level Pro Elements has acid protection...)

Free Action duration - well, you could say the same for Barkskin, and FA is something that prevents a huge number of bad effects. As for stun, I'd remove it from here. And rename "Remove paralysis" into "Remove Stun and Paralyisis".

NPP - shame...imp, such immunity comes way too cheap.

CC - I know you can't really alter it's effect, but you can reduce the duration.

Sol's Orb + Fire Elementals - ahahahaaa...nah. I blew up some Aerie's summons with it. And hit my frontliners. T-up for suggestion, yea.

Earthquake - it's cast in several occasions, yes. Usually by creatures immune to it (Abazigal, and a "Prince of Earth" with limitless stoneskin castings....God bless Holy Avenger; maybe a few others, I can't remember now - Clerics at these levels prefer Implosion I think)

Sound Burst - AoE, semi-disable, damage, what's not to like?

Skull Trap - it's not like it "needs" a boost, but it's far easier to make a bait character immune to fire than magic damage. And tbh, I do kind of miss this spell to be "creme de la creme" of level 3 AoE damage. Fireball is already wastly more powerful in BG1 (better AoE, better range, more damage, and you cannot protect one fully from magic damage in BG1).

Telly Field - grrr....- this is why more players/testers need to post feedback. I'm the kind of player which exclusively plays fighters or paladins. My protaginst is always a melee warrior. So, that's why the hate...(and SCS uses this faar to often imo).

PFNW - never used by AI, no. What for? It's a 5th level slot. Merge it into PFMW......do the AI a favour.

Dispel Screen - I'd vote even slightly higher duration, especially at higher levels. 1turn+1round/level?

Banishment - well, I understand why, but AI is really limited against summons. Their best bet is usually to summon better summons, but that sometimes just doesn't happen (random spellbooks).

Icy Grasp - I'll check the animation again, I didn't see anything that would strike me as "odd" so I'd guess it's fine.

AI/Time Stop - well, AI can be insta-cast, TS takes a round (and is imo vastly overrated, unless if you run a fighter-mage. I don't understand why every high-level SCS mage has this memorized. Comet/Alacrity would be way better for them)

Summoning spells - I kind of feel they're all too good. But that's probably subjective.

 

 

Part 3 of feedback

 

Anyhows, some toughts on game in general.

I didn't really find the game to be more difficult than SCS w/o Revisions. I had some difficulties in certain game parts (namely Underdark) but that's probably since one should have level 13 before going there. Money income was decent, slightly too low in ToB (those traders should offer more money, I don't feel as having to pick up every +2 weapon so I can get 200 GP per piece). Game's tempo is slightly faster than IR/SR v3, but still slower than vanilla. I think this is a good thing.

The spells/items I found most use for - Magic missile, Chromatic Orb (this is such a wonderful spell, bypasses Shield), Secret Word, Breach, True Seeing, Stoneskin, Mass Regenerate, Creepin Doom, Pro Evil, Free Action, Break Enchantement, Bless, Haste. Chaotic Commands was kind of situational (usually on Cernd) since much of my party was immune to plenty of bad effects (everybody apart Cernd was charm-immune), Chain Lighting/Disintegrate/StF, Pro Elements, ADHW, AI.

I've never cast Time Stop, Spell Trigger, Spell Trap, Chain Contingency, Dragon's Breath/Comet in the whole game, nor Remove magic (I had Keldorn however). Additionaly, Pro Magic Energy was never casted as well.

For summons I used almost exclusively Skeletons in BG1 (or whatever Wand of MS gave), and Mass Elemental summoning/Elemental Prince call in BG2/ToB. Few times Aeire used Aerial servant.

For items - i found those permanent Mind-Shield items to be a "must-have", especially for Sarevok. Having Psion's Blade on Keldorn is also very convinient since he can remove most of effects he gains complete immunity to.

I do kind of feel they're too powerful and convinient, but I'm not really sure how they could be nerfed. I didn't buy much equipment, and not a single spell scroll (too expensive). Most of the money was spent in Underdark shops for the two above items and on healing/haste potions.

 

Some SCS "issues" - unfortunately, the targeting parameters for casters are rather simple in SCS - if something has 50%or more resistance to x, don't cast x type damage spell at it. This usually means - Ring of Fire resistance makes one immune to Flame Arrow (one can hit him ofc, but he won't be targeted by it), Boots of Grounding make one immune to Lightning bolt, Keldorn's armor is immunity to Magic Missile etc. I don't really like that. I have tweaked many SCS parameters (50% is 60% or more) for my own game (not for playtesting tho) and find the game much more enjoyable. What IR could do on it's half is nerf the 50% resistance items to 40%, that would actually make them more useful (you take reduced damage, the way it is, it only means someone else will take full damage).

For other things - seeing "Battering Ram" to be used against PCs in a minor sequencer is great. And similar stuff you only witness on SR+SCS install.

 

Finally, as a conclusion, I don't think I'll be playing EE any time soon, and will revert back to BGT. Some of the bugs I've witnessed are emberassing to see - namely, Beholder behaviour (they behave as if they're rave dancing) and a few others I won't go in detail about.(this has nothing to do with Revisions). While EE looks very cool, in tehnical terms, it's practically a step back from vanilla game. Since I hadn't any new EE NPC along, I saw literally zero new items or content.

[kreso]

Oh, and I do think that both +4 and +5 weapons are too abduant in this game!

[Jarno Mikkola]

PFNW - never used by AI, no. What for? ....do the AI a favour.

Well, because the game disallows the use of both to the player, the AI that does not cheat (SCS) cannot use it either !

And by that, I'll just Ctrl + Y your char...