Jump to content

Photo

thief usability flags


8 replies to this topic

#1 subtledoctor

subtledoctor
  • Modders
  • 2766 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 19 September 2018 - 09:57 AM

Does anyone know whether these are actually used?  Are there Swashbuckler-only items in the games (or mods)?  Items usable by trueclass thieves but not by Bounty Hunters?

 

More specifically: I'm trying to make a kit that can use bard-usable items.  I can

- make the items usable by thieves

- make the items unusable by the three thief kits

- add a 319 effect precluding use by kit = trueclass

 

That means neither the trueclass thief nor the three vanilla thief kits will be able to use the items.  So far so good.  But, it also means any mod thief kits with the 0x00004000 usability flag will be able to use the item... not good.

 

Way I see it, I have two options:

 

1) Generate a list of all thief kits aside from my bardish one, and add 319 effects for each one.

 

2) Assign all mod thief kits that have the 0x00004000 flag to use the Swashbuckler flag (0x00100000) instead.  (Or the Assassin or Bounty Hunter flag.)

 

Thoughts?


Faiths & Powers: Spell spheres and kit pack for priests and paladins
Might & Guile: Tweaks and kits for warriors and rogues
Scales of Balance: Game tweaks and rule overhauls
NPC_EE: More options for NPCs in BGEE, SoD, & BG2EE


#2 Jarno Mikkola

Jarno Mikkola

    The Imp

  • Modders
  • 6790 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:The town where the dead haven't keeled over, yet. In Finland.

Posted 19 September 2018 - 11:46 AM

Used... well read the rest of the post, but as item flags, nope. Not a single one in vanilla game.
 

Thoughts?

Are you sure you are not over thinking this ?
What does the item do anyways ? As in, so what if a bard with UAI can use the cloak ? He can't detect traps anyways, and a +2 cloak in most cases is still better than +15% to specific thief skill....

PS, the Swashbuckler flag is used by thieves in the non-EE kits, by those who get the same exact amount of thieving skills as a Swa... so keeping that in mind, it's not out of reason for them to be able to use the same item the Swa... can. Same with the other item usability flags. The ToBEx externalized ... this if memory serves. So the EE kits get the amount the kit maker uses in the .tpa file's include patch function.

Edited by Jarno Mikkola, 19 September 2018 - 11:49 AM.

Welcome to the sanity, you are free to search for the limit, it's out there, we drew it in the sand.
Here's how to install all the ... mods you ever really could want to Infinity Engine games. I removed the stable word from there as Roxanne began to add BS mods that are likely to break compatibility from the BWS.

#3 subtledoctor

subtledoctor
  • Modders
  • 2766 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 19 September 2018 - 12:25 PM

This is very much an EE-only thing, so no worries about thief points/level.

Not sure what you mean about UAI and +2 cloaks. The project is... well, let's say the project is moving the Blade kit into the thief class. Or more - let's say you want to convert the basic Trueclass Bard into a thief kit. What class features would you need to replicate?
- Bard Song. I've got this covered.
- Spellcasting. I've got this covered. (I think.)
- Lore. Easy.
- Pick Pockets. Easy. (And now bards can use other thief skills too!)
- Item use.

Bards can use scrolls; they can use wands; they can use the Wondrous Gloves in BG2 and the Bard's Hat in SoD.

The "Blade" and "Bard" thief kits, therefore, need to be able to use scrolls and wands and Wondrous Gloves and Bard Hats. And old-style bards should still be able to use them. And other thief kits should not be able to use them.

Question is how to do that.

Edited by subtledoctor, 19 September 2018 - 12:27 PM.

Faiths & Powers: Spell spheres and kit pack for priests and paladins
Might & Guile: Tweaks and kits for warriors and rogues
Scales of Balance: Game tweaks and rule overhauls
NPC_EE: More options for NPCs in BGEE, SoD, & BG2EE


#4 Jarno Mikkola

Jarno Mikkola

    The Imp

  • Modders
  • 6790 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:The town where the dead haven't keeled over, yet. In Finland.

Posted 19 September 2018 - 01:20 PM

The project is...
Bards can use scrolls; they can use wands; they can use the Wondrous Gloves in BG2 and the Bard's Hat in SoD.

Question is how to do that.

You allow thieves to use them. You can for example, also require the user to have INT score equal to 10+spells arcane spell level, FORM EVERYONE ... that being the only requirement for usage... you won't break too many walls with such. Ouh, you should also make it so that the component is optional ... not attached to the kit. So you build the kit with optional less or more restrictive component in item usage. Or rather the no additional reguirements is the default and the more restrictive one is optional addon. Why ? -you ask, why the %&/¤ not.
A thief using the Bards hat, what does he get ? Immunity to Silence... well, a thief usually doesn't cast spells, so that's rather non-beneficial. If the Thief is also a mage ... well a bard is a type of a rogue with arcane spell casting, so I would allow that for sure. Wonderious gloves... there's better glowes .. in other places for a rogue/thief. If this particular thief went so far as to get this via the other items that needed to compile the thing, why not ?

Aka you go and &¤%&&#¤¤"¤&&%/(& ask the player, on how they want this problem to be solved. You don't, "I have seen the future, the tree is curved." with restrictions that can break someones game.

Edited by Jarno Mikkola, 19 September 2018 - 01:31 PM.

Welcome to the sanity, you are free to search for the limit, it's out there, we drew it in the sand.
Here's how to install all the ... mods you ever really could want to Infinity Engine games. I removed the stable word from there as Roxanne began to add BS mods that are likely to break compatibility from the BWS.

#5 subtledoctor

subtledoctor
  • Modders
  • 2766 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 19 September 2018 - 02:32 PM

Okay well, any *actual* information appreciated.

Faiths & Powers: Spell spheres and kit pack for priests and paladins
Might & Guile: Tweaks and kits for warriors and rogues
Scales of Balance: Game tweaks and rule overhauls
NPC_EE: More options for NPCs in BGEE, SoD, & BG2EE


#6 Jarno Mikkola

Jarno Mikkola

    The Imp

  • Modders
  • 6790 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:The town where the dead haven't keeled over, yet. In Finland.

Posted 19 September 2018 - 02:46 PM

If it was too hard to read, I guess I'll just:

You allow thieves to use them.

As in there's no need to restrict with kit flags or other tricks.
Welcome to the sanity, you are free to search for the limit, it's out there, we drew it in the sand.
Here's how to install all the ... mods you ever really could want to Infinity Engine games. I removed the stable word from there as Roxanne began to add BS mods that are likely to break compatibility from the BWS.

#7 subtledoctor

subtledoctor
  • Modders
  • 2766 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 19 September 2018 - 03:37 PM

Well since the whole purpose of the thread is "does anyone have info related to how I can specifically not do that," why don't we please move on.

Faiths & Powers: Spell spheres and kit pack for priests and paladins
Might & Guile: Tweaks and kits for warriors and rogues
Scales of Balance: Game tweaks and rule overhauls
NPC_EE: More options for NPCs in BGEE, SoD, & BG2EE


#8 AstroBryGuy

AstroBryGuy

    Mod Tinker

  • Gibberlings
  • 596 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Savoy, Illinois, USA

Posted 20 September 2018 - 10:42 AM

Does Rogue Rebalancing restrict swashbucklers from using the Short Sword of Backstabbing? I know it is changed to give a boost to backstab multiplier (so a restriction would make sense), but I can't remember if it alters the usability. If it does, that's the only item I can think would need to be handled specially for swashbucklers.

 

#2 certainly sounds simpler.



#9 argent77

argent77
  • Modders
  • 823 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 20 September 2018 - 11:27 AM

Afaik, the Boards o' Magick Item Pack makes heavy use of various kit usability flags for their items.





Reply to this topic



  


1 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 1 guests, 0 anonymous users