SCS AI and SR

[DavidW]

I'm in the process of revising the AI in the original Sword Coast Stratagems, and I've probably got time to make some modest allowance for the possibility of SR being installed. It would be helpful to know:

 

(i) some foolproof way of detecting if SR is installed;

(ii) your advice on how clerics, druids and mages optimised for the old spellset ought to be rethinking their strategy and spell choices if SR is installed (L1-5 spells only).

 

If this turns out to be viable, I'll extend it to SCSII in the fullness of time.

[Salk]

I can but thank you (as user of both SCS and SR) for what you are going to do, DavidW!

[Demivrgvs]

I cannot thank you enough for what you're planning to do.

 

(i) some foolproof way of detecting if SR is installed;

Well, I can add an "unused" file in the override folder (as I think most mods do for this sort of things), or we can decide one of SR's custom files which I'm not going to remove ever. Let me know what should I do.

 

(ii) your advice on how clerics, druids and mages optimised for the old spellset ought to be rethinking their strategy and spell choices if SR is installed (L1-5 spells only).

I think some players could give you better advices then myself in this regard, as I haven't got the time to play very much. Anyway being the one who made all the changes I surely can help. I'll be more specific as soon as possible (with in-deth descriptions of the major changes), in general I can say that:

 

- anything that worked on SCS with vanilla's spells still works fine with SR installed. I have always kept SCS in mind, and the only real issue (SR's non-stackable Spell Immunity) has been changed as of V1.5 exactly to make it more "fair" for SCS users;

 

- summons are probably the most improved spells. While vanilla's summons (except few exceptions) were quite weak and not worth to be memorized, SR's ones should be very effective (especially until you can cast Death Spell);

 

- theoretically SR should make each single spell useful in some respect. Thus you should be able to use more and different tactics (e.g. level 1 spells like Color Spray, Grease, and Sleep are good examples of spells which should now remain quite powerful even at higher levels);

 

- if you have any spell tweak you would have implemented in SCS but you didn't to avoid altering too much vanilla's spell system, I may add it to SR. For example we could make Vampiric Touch work as any other touch spell (it really should imo), or we can "fix" Horrid Wilting so that it affects enemies and allies alike (though I'm sure this would create more than a few "discussions");

 

I'll be back with more info asap.

[DavidW]

Let me stress again that this is SCS I, so Baldur's Gate 1. Only spells up to about L5 matter, and the party will be level 1 to 8. The highest level enemy spellcaster will be ~L12.

[Guest Guest]

woot!

[Demivrgvs]

Well, everything I said should remain true if SR is used in BG1. Not having played BG1 it's hard for me to talk about optimised tactics but I can hint the major changes that may affect the gameplay more prominently.

 

MAGES LVL 1° Spells

 

Burning Hands: has it already an area of effect in BG1?

 

Color Spray: it now matches PnP and can be used against creatures with more than 4HD. Its effects are dependent on target's level (decreasing in effectiveness from 5 rounds of unconsciousness, to 3 of blindness, or 1 of being stunned).

 

Grease: it now have a much smaller area of effect, but it slows creatures without a save, those who fail the save are knocked unconscious for 1 round.

 

Infravision: replaced by True Strike. You may use it to make a touch spell a sure hit.

 

Shocking Grasp: can potentially stun for 1 round now.

 

Sleep: less powerful than before at low levels (it doesn't have the -3 penalty to its save anymore) but can be used against any HD creatures as long as the caster is of a higher level. As a side note, I've added a .exe patching to make sleeping creatures awake if hit, but I don't know if it works on Tutu, maybe Shaitan can conferm it.

 

Spook: it didn't existed in BG1, but you surely knew it.

 

 

Is this sort of advices what you were looking for? If yes I can continue to explain all the other major changes (though most of them are described in the relevant thread). Else, I hope some BG1+SR player can provide you with some effective gamplay feedback.

[DavidW]

Is this sort of advices what you were looking for?

Yes.

[Icendoan]

If you are looking for instant combinations, True Strike -> Shocking Grasp works well now. Grease/Colour Spray -> Burning Hands can work now they are both AoE.

 

Icen

[Demivrgvs]

Ok, if it's what you need I'll go on. I'm assuming you already know which spells weren't available in BG1 but are added by easyTutu (which now uses BG2's spells), and instead of listing the huge amount of refinements I'll only post changes that may be taken into account when scripting the AI.

 

 

MAGES Lvl 2° spells

 

Glitterdust: not present in vanilla's BG1. I've reduce its area of effect from 30' to 10' but it creatures affected by it now can't return invisible for 4 rounds

 

Luck: now correctly adds +1 to saves and thieving abilities, and last 1 turn instead of 3 rounds.

 

Stinking CLoud: creatures failing the save cannot attack and cast spell (instead of sleep).

 

 

MAGES Lvl 3° spells

 

Lightning Bolt: affects only one target, but deals 1d10 damage/level up to 10d10 (more reliable imo).

 

Melf Minute Meteor: as per SCSII I've made them +2 enchanted.

 

Monster Summoning I: summons up to 5 Hobgoblin archers (with a sword as secondary weapon). These summons attacks with non-enchanted weapons.

 

Protection from Normal Missile: replaced by Protection from Missile, which also protects from most enchanted missiles.

 

Skull Trap: I've reduced the damage from 1d6/level to 1d4/level up to 20d4.

 

Vampiric Touch: what about making it a touch spell as it should?

 

 

MAGES Lvl 4° spells

 

Emotion: Hopelessness: replaced by Emotion: Despair (which is a sort of AoE Doom) but only because vanilla's sleep effect was too powerful imo (failing the save pratically means certain death).

 

Monster Summoning II: summons up to 4 Gnolls Elite. These summons attacks with +1 enchanted halberds.

 

Teleport Field: now allow a save each round to avoid been teleported (it also works much better than vanilla's version in case of multiple Teleport Fields).

 

 

MAGES Lvl 5° spells

 

Chaos: I've made it more similar to PnP, though slightly less powerful (and even now it's quite more powerful than vanilla's one). Creatures with 5 or more Hit Dice/levels less than the caster do not receive a saving throw versus the effects. I've mainly changed it to make really more appealing than Confusion, which previosly had only a slightly worse save.

 

Conjure Lesser Elementals: mages no longer have to fight to control them, but the spell has a 15% change to fail (more "reliable" imo).

 

Monster Summoning III: summons up to 3 Ogre Berserker. These summons attacks with +1 enchanted morning stars.

 

Spell Immunity Abjuration: now protects from all Abjuration spells.

 

If any player thinks I've missed something important let us know.

[aVENGER_(RR)]

Lightning Bolt: affects only one target, but deals 1d10 damage/level up to 10d10 (more reliable imo).

 

That seems a bit too much for a third level spell, even if it only hits one target. I'd suggest lowering the damage to 1d8/level with a maximum of 10d8.

 

Vampiric Touch: what about making it a touch spell as it should?

 

I'd strongly advise against doing this.

 

Although I can see that it would make a lot of sense from the role-playing point of view, making the spell create a touch "weapon" instead of being directly targeted at opponents will break AI scripting in the unmodded game as well as in all tactical mods which don't take this into account (Tactics, Ascension, Quest Pack, Big Picture, RR...etc).

[DavidW]

Okay, so on a cursory glance: Emotion now functions a bit like Slow used to, and Slow itself is quite nerfed; is that right?

[Demivrgvs]

Lightning Bolt

That seems a bit too much for a third level spell, even if it only hits one target. I'd suggest lowering the damage to 1d8/level with a maximum of 10d8.

You are right, I haven't correctly taken BG1 into account here, 1d10/level reaches high damage potential too fast (and 10-100 damage in BG1 is too much). Anyway, having it deal "only" 10d8 would make it a weak version of Flame Arrow...though until 15th level it would be a better choice instead. Nerfing it isn't a perfect solution imo, but I'll do as you suggest if we don't find a better solution.

 

Actually my hope was to create a new .pro file in order to make it work similarly to Agannazar's Scorcher, or as the old Lightning Bolt but without the un-reliable/exploitable bounce effect, but the original .pro file is hardcoded and I'm not sure such such a projectile is doable.

 

Vampiric Touch

Although I can see that it would make a lot of sense from the role-playing point of view, making the spell create a touch "weapon" instead of being directly targeted at opponents will break AI scripting in the unmodded game as well as in all tactical mods which don't take this into account (Tactics, Ascension, Quest Pack, Big Picture, RR...etc).

You're correct, I was naively thinking that having SCS's AI handle it was enough. Too bad, this spell really ought to work that way imo, and the correct bam/icon to create the touch vampiric.itm file is already there.

 

Slow & Emotion

Okay, so on a cursory glance: Emotion now functions a bit like Slow used to, and Slow itself is quite nerfed; is that right?

Well, Emotion: Despair doesn't halves target's number of attacks/movement rate/regeneration rate, it reduces target's attack/damage rolls and AC (a sort of Greater Malison applied to physical attributes instead), but it can be used much like vanilla's Slow in terms of gameplay. I've changed this spell because PnP Emotion: Hopelessness is much weaker than vanilla's one as it requires the caster to concentrate on it each round to maintain the spell effects (something I'm not able to reproduce). What do you think about it?

Slow is nerfed (I've made it work as per 3rd edition) but still very useful imo. I would have implemented its 2nd edition "lose dexterity bonuses to AC", but it's quite tricky, and it would create problems with its counter spell Haste. Is it too weak now?

 

Speaking of Greater Malison, both PnP and IWD version is half as powerful, causing "only" -2 to saves, and considering it's an AoE spell which doesn't allow a save I do think BG2's version is too powerful. Do you agree?

 

 

P.S DavidW, as you know quite well each spell effectiveness let me know if you think any spell is too weak to be used by your AI (or too powerful by the way).

[Icendoan]

I am definitely commenting the Emotion out, best spell in the game imo.

 

You could make a concentration effect by disabling the attack and spellcasting buttons while it is in effect.

 

Icen

[J Beau]

What about making lightning bolt 1d10/2 levels up to 10d10 at 20th.

[Jarno Mikkola]

Lightning Bolt

Actually my hope was to create a new .pro file in order to make it work similarly to Agannazar's Scorcher, or as the old Lightning Bolt but without the un-reliable/exploitable bounce effect, but the original .pro file is hardcoded and I'm not sure such such a projectile is doable.

Or you could rename the spell and make it to release multiple of small bolts inside a small period of time, so the amount changes instead of the damage per level, and them doing 1d10(8 or 6) each, this erases the bouncing effect as they are all just first level original lightning bolts.