Jump to content

[Poll] TotLM and HoW implementation


subtledoctor

HoW and TotLM implementation  

32 members have voted

You do not have permission to vote in this poll, or see the poll results. Please sign in or register to vote in this poll.

Recommended Posts

Any thoughts on how this will fit in?

I think this could, and maybe should, be split from the rest of IWD. Geographically, it's in Anauroch Desert, quite far from the Spine of the World. Story-wise, there's no reason it needs to start up in the north. This could be shifted to the SoA portion of the game. It might be as simple as moving the NPC who takes you there to someplace in Amn.

 

--------

 

edit by K4thos: I've added pool to your topic. Also updated the topic title, hope you don't mind, subtledoctor.

Link to comment

Indeed the location where TotLM starts doesn't matter considering you are teleported to the castle, but not sure why this change would be beneficial. It would require rewriting initial dialogue with Hobart Stubbletoes, so more work for translators (currently there is pretty much nothing to translate for whole IWD:EE content considering strings are taken right from TLK files). If you're interested in changing English lines from DHOBART.DLG to fit some other point of the story and place than sure, no problem. I can add it as optional component during installation. Or maybe even integrate with base component if there are more people who think it's worth to make such change. The question is - why?

 

Here is how the conversation flows (you can compile it and view in Near Infinity Tree View), if you're interested in rewritting the dialogue:

 

 

BEGIN ~DHOBART~

IF WEIGHT Triggers after states #: 12 13 19 26 41 even though they appear after this state
~  NumberOfTimesTalkedTo(0)
Global("Master_Quest","GLOBAL",0)
~ THEN BEGIN 0 // from:
  SAY ~Ah, there you are. I was beginning to wonder if I had the right place. Hail, well met, and all that rubbish. The name's Stubbletoes... Hobart[Ho-bart] Stubbletoes. And unless I'm mistaken, you must be the legendary heroes of Icewind Dale. Yes?~
  IF ~~ THEN REPLY ~Indeed we are.~ GOTO 1
  IF ~  Class(LastTalkedToBy,PALADIN)
!Kit(LastTalkedToBy,Blackguard)
~ THEN REPLY ~A paladin does not speak proudly of his or her deeds. Let some other take the title of "hero." I have only done as my faith demands.~ GOTO 5
  IF ~  !Race(LastTalkedToBy,HALFLING)
Alignment(LastTalkedToBy,MASK_EVIL)
~ THEN REPLY ~I am no hero, little man. However, if you are in need of a villain, I am at your service.~ GOTO 5
  IF ~  Race(LastTalkedToBy,HALFLING)
Alignment(LastTalkedToBy,MASK_EVIL)
~ THEN REPLY ~I am no hero, brother. However, if you are in need of a villain, I am at your service.~ GOTO 5
  IF ~  Class(LastTalkedToBy,BARD)
~ THEN REPLY ~A hero I am, and of heroes do I sing. I am <GABBER>, a bard and adventurer of some repute.~ GOTO 5
  IF ~~ THEN REPLY ~Perhaps.~ GOTO 2
  IF ~~ THEN REPLY ~Sorry, you must have us confused with someone else.~ GOTO 3
END

IF ~~ THEN BEGIN 1 // from: 3.0 2.0 0.0
  SAY ~I've come a long way to find you. If you are in fact heroes, then I'm sure you'd be interested in undertaking a dangerous, yet potentially rewarding mission. That is, after all, the sort of thing you heroes do. Right?~
  IF ~~ THEN REPLY ~Sure. What did you have in mind?~ GOTO 6
  IF ~~ THEN REPLY ~Sorry, but we're busy right now. Maybe some other time.~ GOTO 4
  IF ~~ THEN REPLY ~Sorry, not interested.~ GOTO 4
END

IF ~~ THEN BEGIN 2 // from: 0.5
  SAY ~Perhaps? Perhaps!? I don't have time for perhaps. Either you are or you aren't. What's it gonna be?~
  IF ~~ THEN REPLY ~Very well. Yes, we are the heroes of Icewind Dale.~ GOTO 1
  IF ~~ THEN REPLY ~Sorry, you must have us confused with someone else.~ GOTO 3
END

IF ~~ THEN BEGIN 3 // from: 2.1 0.6
  SAY ~Oh really? So you aren't the famed defenders of Kuldahar[Kul-duh-har]? The sole survivors of the doomed Easthaven expedition? Hmm... I must be getting senile in my old age. You sure look like heroes to me.~
  IF ~~ THEN REPLY ~We are the people you speak of.~ GOTO 1
  IF ~~ THEN REPLY ~Sorry, old fellow. Farewell.~ GOTO 4
END

IF ~~ THEN BEGIN 4 // from: 3.1 1.2 1.1
  SAY ~Have it your way. But if you do happen upon any *real* heroes, let me know. I have a task that needs doing, and if you thick-browed folk aren't up for it, I'll have to find some who are.~
  IF ~~ THEN REPLY ~Wait. What is this all about?~ GOTO 6
  IF ~~ THEN REPLY ~Farewell.~ EXIT
END

IF ~~ THEN BEGIN 5 // from: 0.4 0.3 0.2 0.1
  SAY ~Feh! A bunch of pony apples and goblin wine. Call yourself whatever you want. I'm looking for people of extraordinary wits and resolve.~
  IF ~~ THEN REPLY ~Fine, we're heroes. Why is this so important to you?~ GOTO 6
  IF ~~ THEN REPLY ~Sorry, but we're not heroes.~ EXIT
END

IF ~~ THEN BEGIN 6 // from: 12.0 5.0 4.0 1.0
  SAY ~There is a ruined castle I know of... not far from here. Men whisper that great treasure waits inside, guarded by fell beasts and devious traps. All who have entered have... well, died.~
  IF ~~ THEN REPLY ~*sigh* That's a very original story, friend. I suppose it's haunted too?~ DO ~SetGlobal("Hobart_Told","GLOBAL",1)
~ GOTO 7
  IF ~~ THEN REPLY ~Where is this castle?~ DO ~SetGlobal("Hobart_Told","GLOBAL",1)
~ GOTO 8
  IF ~~ THEN REPLY ~Why do you want *us* to come with you?~ DO ~SetGlobal("Hobart_Told","GLOBAL",1)
~ GOTO 9
  IF ~~ THEN REPLY ~Sorry, not interested.~ DO ~SetGlobal("Hobart_Told","GLOBAL",1)
~ GOTO 10
END

IF ~~ THEN BEGIN 7 // from: 6.0
  SAY ~Think you're so smart, do you? Well, there's a reason you always hear stories like this. Because they're true! People say the castle just... *whoosh* sucks people right in. They never come out again.~
  IF ~~ THEN REPLY ~Where is this castle?~ GOTO 8
  IF ~~ THEN REPLY ~Why do you want *us* to come with you?~ GOTO 9
  IF ~~ THEN REPLY ~Sorry, not interested.~ GOTO 10
END

IF ~~ THEN BEGIN 8 // from: 7.0 6.1
  SAY ~Eh... I can't tell you. I can show you, though. Listen, if you come with me, you can see for yourself. Make some money, save a few people from an awful fate, and maybe some washed-up bard will write a pretty song about it. What do you say?~
  IF ~~ THEN REPLY ~Very well. We shall accompany you.~ GOTO 11
  IF ~~ THEN REPLY ~Why do you want *us* to come with you?~ GOTO 9
  IF ~~ THEN REPLY ~Sorry, not interested.~ GOTO 10
END

IF ~~ THEN BEGIN 9 // from: 8.1 7.1 6.2
  SAY ~Heh. I can see those wheels turning in your mind. Maybe you are clever enough... I'm in this purely for the profit. A frugal man can live quite well off of the scraps of adventurers. Nothing wrong with that, eh?~
  IF ~~ THEN REPLY ~Very well. We shall accompany you.~ GOTO 11
  IF ~~ THEN REPLY ~Sorry, not interested.~ GOTO 10
END

IF ~~ THEN BEGIN 10 // from: 9.1 8.2 7.2 6.3
  SAY ~*sigh* Eh... you're useless. Find me some real heroes and there might be some gold in it for you.~
  IF ~~ THEN REPLY ~Very well. We shall accompany you.~ GOTO 11
  IF ~~ THEN REPLY ~Farewell.~ EXIT
END

IF ~~ THEN BEGIN 11 // from: 12.1 10.0 9.0 8.0
  SAY ~Wonderful. I'll take you there right away. Now, just give me a few moments... how do I work this thing? Is this the rune that...~
  IF ~~ THEN DO ~SetGlobal("Master_Quest","GLOBAL",1)
ClearAllActions()
StartCutSceneMode()
StartCutScene("cyHobTel")
~ EXIT
END

IF WEIGHT #0 ~  NumTimesTalkedToGT(0)
Global("Master_Quest","GLOBAL",0)
~ THEN BEGIN 12 // from:
  SAY ~Well... back again. Have you found any heroes willing to take up a challenge, or are you just pulling an old owlbear's feathers?~
  IF ~  !Global("Hobart_Told","GLOBAL",1)
~ THEN REPLY ~Hobart, you haven't told us what this challenge is all about.~ GOTO 6
  IF ~  Global("Hobart_Told","GLOBAL",1)
~ THEN REPLY ~Yes, we are willing to accompany you.~ GOTO 11
  IF ~~ THEN REPLY ~Sorry to bother you, Hobart. Farewell.~ EXIT
END

IF WEIGHT #1 ~  Global("Master_Quest","GLOBAL",1)
~ THEN BEGIN 13 // from:
  SAY ~Hmm. See, I told you it wasn't far. Heh, heh. Now, eh... Tymora's[Tie-more-ah] stinking luck to you and all that.~
  IF ~~ THEN REPLY ~What?! Where in Faerûn are we?~ GOTO 14
  IF ~~ THEN REPLY ~What have you done, Hobart?~ GOTO 17
  IF ~~ THEN REPLY ~Thanks. Farewell.~ GOTO 16
END

IF ~~ THEN BEGIN 14 // from: 13.0
  SAY ~We're in Anauroch[An-o-rock]. It's a desert. There you go. Happy? Now, get on with the heroics. I need to rest these old bones.~
  IF ~~ THEN REPLY ~Wait...~ GOTO 16
  IF ~~ THEN REPLY ~What have you done, Hobart?~ GOTO 17
  IF ~~ THEN REPLY ~Thanks. Farewell.~ GOTO 16
END

IF ~~ THEN BEGIN 15 // from:
  SAY ~*sigh* You wanted to come here, right? You accepted the challenge, yes? Well, here it is. Enjoy.~
  IF ~~ THEN REPLY ~Wait...~ GOTO 16
  IF ~~ THEN REPLY ~What?! Where in Faerûn are we?~ GOTO 18
  IF ~~ THEN REPLY ~Thanks. Farewell.~ GOTO 16
END

IF ~~ THEN BEGIN 16 // from: 18.1 18.0 17.1 17.0 15.2 15.0 14.2 14.0 13.2
  SAY ~Bah! Orc-wit.~
  IF ~~ THEN DO ~SetGlobal("Master_Quest","GLOBAL",2)
ClearAllActions()
StartCutSceneMode()
StartCutScene("cyHobLve")
~ EXIT
END

IF ~~ THEN BEGIN 17 // from: 14.1 13.1
  SAY ~*sigh* You wanted to come here, right? You accepted the challenge, yes? Well, here it is. Enjoy.~
  IF ~~ THEN REPLY ~Wait...~ GOTO 16
  IF ~~ THEN REPLY ~Thanks. Farewell.~ GOTO 16
END

IF ~~ THEN BEGIN 18 // from: 15.1
  SAY ~We're in Anauroch[An-o-rock]. It's a desert. There you go. Happy? Now, get on with the heroics. I need to rest these old bones.~
  IF ~~ THEN REPLY ~Wait...~ GOTO 16
  IF ~~ THEN REPLY ~Thanks. Farewell.~ GOTO 16
END

IF WEIGHT #2 ~  Global("Master_Quest","GLOBAL",2)
~ THEN BEGIN 19 // from:
  SAY ~Don't you have enough to do in the rest of this gods-forsaken place than pester me?~
  IF ~  Global("Know_Luremaster","GLOBAL",1)
~ THEN REPLY ~Hobart, what do you know about the strange ghost that lurks near the north gate?~ DO ~SetGlobal("Know_Luremaster","GLOBAL",2)
~ GOTO 20
  IF ~  Global("Know_Hobart_Store","GLOBAL",1)
~ THEN REPLY ~Could I look at some of the things you've found? Would you be interested in trading?~ DO ~StartStore("Hobart",LastTalkedToBy)
~ EXIT
  IF ~  Global("Know_Hobart_Store","GLOBAL",0)
~ THEN REPLY ~What is this place?~ DO ~SetGlobal("Know_Hobart_Store","GLOBAL",1)
~ GOTO 23
  IF ~  Global("Know_Hobart_Store","GLOBAL",0)
~ THEN REPLY ~How did you find this place, Hobart?~ DO ~SetGlobal("Know_Hobart_Store","GLOBAL",1)
~ GOTO 24
  IF ~~ THEN REPLY ~Sorry to bother you, Hobart. Farewell.~ EXIT
END

IF ~~ THEN BEGIN 20 // from: 19.0
  SAY ~Heh. So you met the Luremaster, eh? Watch out for him. He's craftier than a fox in winter.~
  IF ~~ THEN REPLY ~What do you know about him?~ GOTO 21
  IF ~~ THEN REPLY ~I have some other questions for you.~ GOTO 22
  IF ~~ THEN REPLY ~Farewell, Hobart.~ EXIT
END

IF ~~ THEN BEGIN 21 // from: 20.0
  SAY ~About the Luremaster? Well, I... I don't really know any more than you do. I just see him floating around the gate. Uh... other adventurers have told me his name. That's all.~
  IF ~~ THEN REPLY ~I have some other questions for you.~ GOTO 22
  IF ~~ THEN REPLY ~Farewell, Hobart.~ EXIT
END

IF ~~ THEN BEGIN 22 // from: 21.0 20.1
  SAY ~Yeah, get on with it. At my age, you learn not to waste time with chit-chat.~
  IF ~~ THEN REPLY ~What is this place?~ DO ~SetGlobal("Know_Hobart_Store","GLOBAL",1)
~ GOTO 23
  IF ~~ THEN REPLY ~How did you find this place, Hobart?~ DO ~SetGlobal("Know_Hobart_Store","GLOBAL",1)
~ GOTO 24
  IF ~~ THEN REPLY ~Sorry to bother you, Hobart. Farewell.~ EXIT
END

IF ~~ THEN BEGIN 23 // from: 41.1 22.0 19.2
  SAY ~This? It's my humble refuge from the sand and sun. I've collected a few bits and pieces of treasure from the ruins over time. Most of it's junk, but at least it occupies my time.~
  IF ~~ THEN REPLY ~Could I look at some of the things you've found? Would you be interested in trading?~ GOTO 25
  IF ~~ THEN REPLY ~How did you find this place, Hobart?~ GOTO 24
  IF ~~ THEN REPLY ~Farewell, Hobart.~ EXIT
END

IF ~~ THEN BEGIN 24 // from: 41.2 23.1 22.1 19.3
  SAY ~Eh... like you, I heard about it from someone else who came here. I've been trying to get at the treasure inside for quite a while now. I'm just one old halfling, though. Heh heh. What can I do against a ghost, hmm?~
  IF ~~ THEN REPLY ~Indeed. Are you interested in trading any of the goods you've collected?~ GOTO 25
  IF ~~ THEN REPLY ~Farewell, Hobart.~ EXIT
END

IF ~~ THEN BEGIN 25 // from: 24.0 23.0
  SAY ~Sure, why not? It's not like any of this junk has sentimental value. Let me see what you have.~
  IF ~~ THEN REPLY ~Very well.~ DO ~StartStore("Hobart",LastTalkedToBy)
~ EXIT
END

IF WEIGHT #3 ~  GlobalGT("Master_Quest","GLOBAL",2)
Global("Hobart_Keep","GLOBAL",0)
~ THEN BEGIN 26 // from:
  SAY ~Heh heh. Amazing. You actually managed to get into the keep. You're the first. Maybe the Luremaster was right about you aft—oops. I mean... uh... heh heh.~
  IF ~~ THEN REPLY ~Wait a moment... what did the Luremaster tell you about us?~ DO ~SetGlobal("Hobart_Keep","GLOBAL",1)
~ GOTO 27
END

IF ~~ THEN BEGIN 27 // from: 26.0
  SAY ~Uh... I meant that... ugh. *gulp*~
  IF ~~ THEN REPLY ~Hobart, what are you hiding?~ GOTO 28
  IF ~~ THEN REPLY ~Listen to me, Hobart, you better start telling us what you know or we might have to get "rough."~ GOTO 28
END

IF ~~ THEN BEGIN 28 // from: 27.1 27.0
  SAY ~Please... please don't make me tell you. H-he can hear us. *gulp* He'll kill me if I tell you. Kill me!~
  IF ~~ THEN REPLY ~I didn't realize... don't worry, we won't force you to tell us anything.~ GOTO 29
  IF ~~ THEN REPLY ~Can you at least give us some idea of what's going on here?~ GOTO 29
  IF ~  Alignment(LastTalkedToBy,MASK_EVIL)
Class(LastTalkedToBy,CLERIC)
~ THEN REPLY ~Hobart, I can command the forces of hell with a word. Do you think that the Luremaster scares me in the slightest? Tell... me... now.~ GOTO 30
  IF ~  Alignment(LastTalkedToBy,MASK_EVIL)
Class(LastTalkedToBy,MAGE)
~ THEN REPLY ~Hobart, I can level towns with a word. Do you think that the Luremaster scares me in the slightest? Tell... me... now.~ GOTO 30
  IF ~~ THEN REPLY ~You will tell me now or you will die now. It's that simple.~ GOTO 30
END

IF ~~ THEN BEGIN 29 // from: 28.1 28.0
  SAY ~Look, I'm stuck here, just like you. I'm sorry I wasn't entirely truthful when we met... I hope you don't die like all the others. Oh! I've said too much. Please don't ask me any more!~
  IF ~~ THEN REPLY ~I understand, Hobart. Can I see what you have to trade?~ DO ~StartStore("Hobart",LastTalkedToBy)
~ EXIT
  IF ~~ THEN REPLY ~You little bastard. Tell me everything you know before I beat you to a pulp.~ GOTO 30
  IF ~~ THEN REPLY ~I've heard enough. Farewell, Hobart.~ EXIT
END

IF ~~ THEN BEGIN 30 // from: 29.1 28.4 28.3 28.2
  SAY ~Well, since you put it that way... I know who the Luremaster is. I know all too well. I have been his guest for decades now. At least, I think it's been decades. Let me back up a bit and explain things.~
  IF ~~ THEN REPLY ~Go on.~ GOTO 31
  IF ~~ THEN REPLY ~I've heard enough. Farewell, Hobart.~ GOTO 38
END

IF ~~ THEN BEGIN 31 // from: 30.0
  SAY ~I used to be an adventurer, just like you. Back then, I had a few less inches on my belly and a few more hairs on my foolish head. My companions wanted to explore the Battle of the Bones, south of Evereska. Well, I was interested in something else, a castle called Maluradek.~
  IF ~~ THEN REPLY ~This castle?~ GOTO 32
  IF ~~ THEN REPLY ~I've heard enough. Farewell, Hobart.~ GOTO 38
END

IF ~~ THEN BEGIN 32 // from: 31.0
  SAY ~Yes, this very castle. It was as ruined then as it is now. The desert expanded, swallowing it up over a century ago. I got in easy enough. It was getting out that proved hard.~
  IF ~~ THEN REPLY ~How so?~ GOTO 33
  IF ~~ THEN REPLY ~I've heard enough. Farewell, Hobart.~ GOTO 38
END

IF ~~ THEN BEGIN 33 // from: 32.0
  SAY ~While I was searching for a way to get into the keep, the Luremaster appeared to me in all his ghostly glory. He spoke in his usual cryptic manner, presenting me with his "heroes challenge."~
  IF ~~ THEN REPLY ~What happened next?~ GOTO 40
  IF ~~ THEN REPLY ~I've heard enough. Farewell, Hobart.~ GOTO 38
END

IF ~~ THEN BEGIN 34 // from: 40.0
  SAY ~What did I do? I tucked tail and ran. Without looking back, I scaled down the outer wall from the east parapets. When I turned around to walk across the desert, I found myself back in the courtyard. No matter how I tried to climb, jump, or dig my way out of this damned castle, I wound up getting nowhere.~
  IF ~~ THEN REPLY ~That's it?~ GOTO 35
  IF ~~ THEN REPLY ~I've heard enough. Farewell, Hobart.~ GOTO 38
END

IF ~~ THEN BEGIN 35 // from: 34.0
  SAY ~After days of hard work without food or water, I was seeing things. I must have passed out and started to dream. That's when I saw the Luremaster again. He asked me once again to take up his challenge. I told him that I had just come searching for some treasure. He had no pity for little old me.~
  IF ~~ THEN REPLY ~What did he do?~ GOTO 36
  IF ~~ THEN REPLY ~I've heard enough. Farewell, Hobart.~ GOTO 38
END

IF ~~ THEN BEGIN 36 // from: 35.0
  SAY ~He told me that only true heroes could leave the castle, and that, since I was obviously lacking in that department, I would have to serve him if I wanted to stay alive. He handed me a ring and told me it would transport me wherever I wanted for up to a day. By dawn, I would always appear back in the courtyard. In return, I was to find adventurers worthy of taking up his challenge.~
  IF ~~ THEN REPLY ~I thought you said it was just a dream.~ GOTO 37
END

IF ~~ THEN BEGIN 37 // from: 36.0
  SAY ~Aye. And I would gladly give all the gold I've ever seen in my lifetime to have kept it just a dream. But when I woke, I found this damned ring on my finger. If I take it off, I'll die. I've been serving him ever since.~
  IF ~~ THEN DO ~AddJournalEntry(27214,INFO)
~ GOTO 38
END

IF ~~ THEN BEGIN 38 // from: 40.1 37.0 35.1 34.1 33.1 32.1 31.1 30.1
  SAY ~I'm sorry I was unpleasant to you when we met. I try not to get too attached to those I'm forced to bring here. You understand, right?~
  IF ~~ THEN REPLY ~How many others have come through here?~ GOTO 39
  IF ~~ THEN REPLY ~Right. May I look at the goods you've collected?~ DO ~StartStore("Hobart",LastTalkedToBy)
~ EXIT
  IF ~~ THEN REPLY ~Thank you for telling us. Farewell, Hobart.~ EXIT
END

IF ~~ THEN BEGIN 39 // from: 38.0
  SAY ~Over the years, there have been hundreds. You're the first to open the gates to the keep, though. *sigh* I hope you can lift the curse from this damned place.~
  IF ~~ THEN REPLY ~Right. May I look at the goods you've collected?~ DO ~StartStore("Hobart",LastTalkedToBy)
~ EXIT
  IF ~~ THEN REPLY ~Thank you for telling us. Farewell, Hobart.~ EXIT
END

IF ~~ THEN BEGIN 40 // from: 33.0
  SAY ~Well, I'm no coward, but then again I'm no orc-wit either. I don't know how it is where you come from, but where I'm from, a halfling would have to have raisins in his braincase to traffic with spirits.~
  IF ~~ THEN REPLY ~So what did you do?~ GOTO 34
  IF ~~ THEN REPLY ~I've heard enough. Farewell, Hobart.~ GOTO 38
END

IF WEIGHT #4 ~  GlobalGT("Master_Quest","GLOBAL",2)
Global("Hobart_Keep","GLOBAL",1)
~ THEN BEGIN 41 // from:
  SAY ~Don't you have enough to do in the rest of this gods-forsaken place than pester me?~
  IF ~  Global("Know_Hobart_Store","GLOBAL",1)
~ THEN REPLY ~Could I look at some of the things you've found? Would you be interested in trading?~ DO ~StartStore("Hobart",LastTalkedToBy)
~ EXIT
  IF ~  Global("Know_Hobart_Store","GLOBAL",0)
~ THEN REPLY ~What is this place?~ DO ~SetGlobal("Know_Hobart_Store","GLOBAL",1)
~ GOTO 23
  IF ~  Global("Know_Hobart_Store","GLOBAL",0)
~ THEN REPLY ~How did you find this place, Hobart?~ DO ~SetGlobal("Know_Hobart_Store","GLOBAL",1)
~ GOTO 24
  IF ~~ THEN REPLY ~Sorry to bother you, Hobart. Farewell.~ EXIT
END

 

 

 

Link to comment

It's just, as long as we're not actually playing IWDEE, why not split up what can be split up, and make it more modular?

 

That dialogue only needs *two* simple changes, and I'm happy to make them. Then it should just be a matter of 1) moving Hobart's .cre to a different location, and 2) changing the final teleport script to send the players back to that new location. (Hopefully.)

 

The you could just make a first component:

- install TotLM in SoA, separate from IWD?
And then a second component with a couple subcomponents:

- install IWDEE plus TotLM?
 - install IWDEE?
... where the former include a FORBID_COMPONENT line to prevent being installed with the first component above.
Link to comment

It should be no way to skip installation of TotLM because some resources might be missing for modders?

One of the great new ideas behind IWD-EET is to populate it with additional contents from other mods and so tie it closer into the Baldur's Gate original story, i.e. making any travel into IWD Territiory much more part of the game and not some artificial expedition through time and space, You can go there by worldmap and discover it like with some other megamod.

For modders to accept this new playground, there should be a stable and reliable basis to append their stuff to. Facing an installation with numerous options and if's scares away those who might have an interest to improve the game.

Link to comment

Again, without looking at the code I can't say for sure, but I'm just saying:

1) There's really nothing story-wise that ties TotLM to the rest of IWD/HOW

2) There's no geographical tie between TotLM and IWD/HOW

3) There's no technical connection between TotLM and the rest of IWD/HOW, except the Hobart .cre file and the final TotLM teleport script

 

So how about:

 

Component 1: install IWD-in-EET (in its entirety, including TotLM)
Component 2: optional - move Hobart to Athkatla
(or to the outside of Watcher's Keep, or to Brynnlaw, or to the Underdark, or wherever might be appropriate)
Link to comment

For me it's not even the timing, it's just the desire to see things be as modular as possible. Why should the player have to go to Easthaven, and then to Kuldahar, and then to Lonelywood, in order to be teleported to Anauroch? TotLM is so independent, story-wise, it would be nice to set it up as its own separate adventure, like Durlag's Tower or Watcher's Keep.

 

Frankly, as I think about it, I'm a bit surprised there was never a "TotLM-in-BG2" mod...

Link to comment

I'm strongly in favor of splitting ToTL from HoW and from splitting HoW from IWD and placing these parts in EET in a staggered way

 

I would encourage splitting the IWD stuff like this: make IWD accessible from the start, HoW significantly later (Hjollder reaches out to you in, for example, Athkatla and isn't present in kuldahar), and ToTL much later (i once proposed putting Hobart in Brynnlaw because Brynnlaw is so boring)

 

Reasons:

  • structural - the original IWD russian doll campaign structure is pretty lame; there's no designer's forethought there...it's all so incidental: HoW and ToTL were rather disconnected ad hoc additions, artificialy grafted onto the main game and this only goes to confirm that IWD was not about the story, but about combat - on the other hand the Bhaalspawn Saga has a more structured narrative and in my opinion doesn't tolerate such arbitrary design
  • aesthetic #1 - IWD-in-EET makes the IWD campaign just a cool side quest in the unified Bhaalspawn Saga and having the game so "north-loaded" where you spend, in one go, as most players will be inclined to (because of the russian doll structure), so much time (many irl hours and weeks upon weeks of in-game time) would, i think, dissolve the urgency of the main story
  • aesthetic #2 - it's refreshing to change locales and regions more frequently (...go back South, than go back North...) than to get "stuck" for a prolonged time in the emotionally vapid North
  • balance #1 - a player who completes IWD+HOW+ToTL in one go with all the experience and items found there will find the rest of the game completely ridiculous, especially if he does it prior to SoA chapter 2, which feels kinda likely and intuitive
  • balance #2 - ToTL is significantly harder than HoW and the encounters were originally designed to be played with a party that has already completed HoW (so there's imho also no sense in insisting that ToTL belongs where it does)
  • balance #3 - HoW is significantly harder than the main IWD game and completing it before beating IWD makes the remaining parts of IWD trivial, yet the standard way of starting HoW will now be talking to Hjollder in Kuldahar (right?), whereas the standard for most IWD players was importing characters after beating IWD
  • technical - it's not hard to split HoW from IWD and it's trivial to split ToTL from HoW
Link to comment

 

I'm strongly in favor of splitting ToTL from HoW and from splitting HoW from IWD and placing these parts in EET in a staggered way

 

I would encourage splitting the IWD stuff like this: make IWD accessible from the start, HoW significantly later (Hjollder reaches out to you in, for example, Athkatla and isn't present in kuldahar), and ToTL much later (i once proposed putting Hobart in Brynnlaw because Brynnlaw is so boring)

 

Reasons:

  • structural - the original IWD russian doll campaign structure is pretty lame; there's no designer's forethought there...it's all so incidental: HoW and ToTL were rather disconnected ad hoc additions, artificialy grafted onto the main game and this only goes to confirm that IWD was not about the story, but about combat - on the other hand the Bhaalspawn Saga has a more structured narrative and in my opinion doesn't tolerate such arbitrary design
  • aesthetic #1 - IWD-in-EET makes the IWD campaign just a cool side quest in the unified Bhaalspawn Saga and having the game so "north-loaded" where you spend, in one go, as most players will be inclined to (because of the russian doll structure), so much time (many irl hours and weeks upon weeks of in-game time) would, i think, dissolve the urgency of the main story
  • aesthetic #2 - it's refreshing to change locales and regions more frequently (...go back South, than go back North...) than to get "stuck" for a prolonged time in the emotionally vapid North
  • balance #1 - a player who completes IWD+HOW+ToTL in one go with all the experience and items found there will find the rest of the game completely ridiculous, especially if he does it prior to SoA chapter 2, which feels kinda likely and intuitive
  • balance #2 - ToTL is significantly harder than HoW and the encounters were originally designed to be played with a party that has already completed HoW (so there's imho also no sense in insisting that ToTL belongs where it does)
  • balance #3 - HoW is significantly harder than the main IWD game and completing it before beating IWD makes the remaining parts of IWD trivial, yet the standard way of starting HoW will now be talking to Hjollder in Kuldahar (right?), whereas the standard for most IWD players was importing characters after beating IWD
  • technical - it's not hard to split HoW from IWD and it's trivial to split ToTL from HoW

 

I fully agree to that view. I had even suggested to delay the initial journey to IWD until at least you did the Nashkel mines (you should have made yourself a bit of reputation as an adventurer already.). I had a plot ready to tie the IWD episodes closer into the main story but that was not much welcome. I also like your idea of travelling back and forth like with the rest of the worldmap rather than spending months away from the main game and in some disconnected story.

i am afraid we are very much alone with this opinion - and providing a mod that would introduce such gameplay features to EET will probably not receive much acceptance, (Which means that I will do it anyway.)

Link to comment

i am afraid we are very much alone with this opinion - and providing a mod that would introduce such gameplay features to EET will probably not receive much acceptance, (Which means that I will do it anyway.)

This totally depends on what is changed and what stays the same.

Shall the BG1 character stats be used instead of the IWD stats? Shall there be a few added creatures that make the fights a bit harder, or will every one of the cheese balls get to be BG2 monsters with 1000 hit points and unjustifiable disposition ...

Or will they be snush job for a good BG1 party that has adventured hundreds of hours in the wild and is almost in Amn...

If it's balanced correctly, aka set the IwD start so that a full level 3-5 party(6 chars) had a good chance to beat all the monsters in the firsts areas without being smashed to pulp, then it's well balanced.

Also the IwD is actually chapter-ed so that it could have level based adventures... As one should know, the start of the adventure is the journey from Easthaven to Kuldahar. That's goblins, a few ogres and things in between. What if the party that has already leveled to 7 ... I would make it so that the player can't reach the Easthaven cause the collapse of the passage already happened, so they would arrive at Kuldahar instead. And so forth.

Link to comment

Frankly, as I think about it, I'm a bit surprised there was never a "TotLM-in-BG2" mod...

It would have been a lot of the hassle of IWD-in-BG2 for a fraction of the content. There were only two people dumb optimistic enough to try that. :)

 

The idea of sticking Hobart and TotLM into the BG2 storyline intrigues me though. It's a good standalone yet doesn't throw so much XP and items on the party that it would destroy the balance of the rest of the game.

Link to comment

My point exactly. Whereas IWD has a long linear story, and HOW ties into that story in a few ways (both geographically, and in the background of the main villain), TotLM is a separate little thing. As far as its place in any given game, it is not very different from Balduran's Isle, or Durlag's Tower, or Watcher's Keep - a nice big self-contained dungeon crawl. I think the link to IWD/HOW could/should be fairly structured, to provide consistency for modders like Roxanne. But TotLM can be separate.

 

Like I say, the easiest way to accomplish that is probably with a simple optional component that moves Hobart to one of the SoA maps. Somewhere in Athkatla I guess. That way, players would have the ability to go on that self-contained dungeon crawl even if they *don't* want to go on the whole big linear adventure of IWD.

Link to comment

Thanks for feedback. I've added pool to this topic, so feel free to vote for the implementation that you think fits better. All votes, including comments in this topic will be taken into account in deciding the way it will be implemented in official release.

Link to comment

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

×
×
  • Create New...