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IR Revised V1.14a (2018 August 17th)


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#151 Bartimaeus

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Posted 17 August 2018 - 06:39 AM

​Yeah, there aren't really a whole lot of encounters where you get blinded, so the Blind Fight property isn't the most useful. The Black Mist ability itself is actually decently powerful (especially with 3 charges at a -2 saving throw), since being blinded is a rather severe penalty, especially for the AI...but on the other hand, you get it towards the end of SoA where you have little opportunity to use it against non-SR enemies, which does suck.

​I don't think it does work with Item Randomizer. I haven't taken a look at how Item Randomizer works, but I would imagine with iRR shifting some items around, there would likely be duplicates of a handful or two.



#152 Bartimaeus

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Posted 17 August 2018 - 01:57 PM

IRR V1.14a released:

1. Suryris's Blade's Staggering property was only giving a -2 penalty to casting speed...which I opted to change the description to match, since that makes more sense than -4, which is actually pretty severe.
2. ​Potion of Magic Blocking works again (thanks Luke - self-inflicted bug from the previous update).
3. A few more comprehensive and consistent protection properties (e.g. Mind Shield).



#153 Arthas

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Posted 17 August 2018 - 10:48 PM

Could that weapon be made more palatable?
1) make it a one handed-weapon?
2) add a blind effect on hit (25% percent chance) (target must save vs -(you choose what) at -2 or be blinded)
3) add a mini vorpal effect? (5%)?

Something that makes that weapon worth enough to be used also in ToB...


Edited by Arthas, 17 August 2018 - 11:09 PM.


#154 Bartimaeus

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Posted 18 August 2018 - 10:15 AM

Sure. If you had a new icon for a different type of weapon, and nobody minded that you just changed the weapon type and overall design of a particular weapon. This is Item Revisions, not Item Creations, :p. It is a little weak, though...I'll have to think more about it.



#155 Arthas

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Posted 18 August 2018 - 02:06 PM

My idea is that it should be amongst one of the better weapons on the early to mid game of ToB. 



#156 Bartimaeus

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Posted 18 August 2018 - 04:05 PM

​I'm not really in the habit of sticking random properties into items with an already set design and lore where they don't fit just for the sake making them a little stronger, though. Sometimes, a +4 weapon is just a +4 weapon without a lot of bells or whistles, and I think that's okay. Most of the good to great +4 weapons in SoA are ones you have to craft - the ones you just happen to find or buy (Mana Bow, Rod of Smiting, Crossbow of Affliction, Blackmist, and Soul Reaver + Staff of the Woodlands to lesser extents) aren't that great...with the exception of Carsomyr, of course, which is a special exception for obvious reasons.

​The shame with Blackmist is that its property is basically impossible to use by the time you get it in SoA (most everything has magic resistance at that point), it does not really fit its location (I'll talk about this in a moment), and it's difficult to move it further back in the game due to its enchantment level. If you wanted to put it somewhere pre-Spellhold, you'd basically have to nerf it to +3. As for its current location, it doesn't even really make sense where it is, because it's a reward given as a result of doing something extremely evil, something so evil that literally only evil-aligned characters are given the option in a non-modded game (only the second of quests that I know that do this in BG2), and it's not even an evil item, unlike fellow halberds Duskblade and the Ravager - in fact, its history mentions that it was a Paladin's weapon, which is pretty much the opposite of what this kind of quest should give! Something like Soul Reaver or maybe even Unholy Reaver (the opposite Carsomyr that's currently non-droppable, I believe) would make much more sense for this location.



#157 Arthas

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Posted 18 August 2018 - 11:29 PM

I understand your reasoning. So at best you would like just to move it via store revisions?





Another interesting property would be:

> paralyze non-undead critters for 6 seconds on a failed save vs. death.


Edited by Arthas, 18 August 2018 - 11:32 PM.


#158 bob_veng

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Posted Yesterday, 03:11 AM

​I'm not really in the habit of sticking random properties into items with an already set design and lore where they don't fit just for the sake making them a little stronger, though. Sometimes, a +4 weapon is just a +4 weapon without a lot of bells or whistles, and I think that's okay. Most of the good to great +4 weapons in SoA are ones you have to craft - the ones you just happen to find or buy (Mana Bow, Rod of Smiting, Crossbow of Affliction, Blackmist, and Soul Reaver + Staff of the Woodlands to lesser extents) aren't that great...with the exception of Carsomyr, of course, which is a special exception for obvious reasons.

​The shame with Blackmist is that its property is basically impossible to use by the time you get it in SoA (most everything has magic resistance at that point), it does not really fit its location (I'll talk about this in a moment), and it's difficult to move it further back in the game due to its enchantment level. If you wanted to put it somewhere pre-Spellhold, you'd basically have to nerf it to +3. As for its current location, it doesn't even really make sense where it is, because it's a reward given as a result of doing something extremely evil, something so evil that literally only evil-aligned characters are given the option in a non-modded game (only the second of quests that I know that do this in BG2), and it's not even an evil item, unlike fellow halberds Duskblade and the Ravager - in fact, its history mentions that it was a Paladin's weapon, which is pretty much the opposite of what this kind of quest should give! Something like Soul Reaver or maybe even Unholy Reaver (the opposite Carsomyr that's currently non-droppable, I believe) would make much more sense for this location.

 

a slain evil creature doesn't have to drop an "evil item" - if it drops a "good item" it might mean that the previous, good, owner was killed by that creature or some other evil force. i also don't think that all items have to be tied to their location thematically, just some. "theme overload" where everything has to fit a predictable pattern is actually not very immersive i think (i'm not "accusing" you of that, just stating generally)

 

regardless, thematically, blackmist might best belong in the temple ruins / shadow dragon's lair:

"This was the weapon of Dominique Harl, a sightless paladin who frequently traveled Faerûn. When attacked, Dominique would unleash the black mist that is this halberd's namesake, potentially blinding all within 10 feet. This often gave him the advantage, for he lived in darkness all his life, seeing only with the inner light of faith. Dominique eventually fell, his body found in a dark forest, slain by a creature of the night even more at home in the shadows than he."

 

so maybe Shadow Patrick, (instead of Duskblade) could drop Blackmist, changed to +3 or +2 (maybe +1 AC?)

 

then Lesser Demon Lord (instead of Blackmist) could drop Dragon's Breath halberd, unchanged (it's very good)

 

finally, Boz the drow from the Underdark group (instead of Dragon's Breath) could drop Duskblade, improved*

 

. . . 

 

* Duskblade has a pretty impressive descripton, so on these grounds and since it would be found much later, it could stand some improvement:

"Though once a simple halberd, this weapon spent many hundreds of years in a tomb next to the soul phylactery of a powerful lich. The creature was eventually erased from existence, purportedly by another of its kind, but such close proximity to that concentrated evil has imbued this blade with the very essence of night and the chill of darkness, energy that becomes deadly in combat. It is a foul weapon, and a warrior should use it with caution."

 

since drow dislike surface metals, maybe it could be noted that it's made of adamantite (i think drow use adamantite equipment instead of their usual adamantine gear when they raid in the surface); so a description revision could be made: "Though once an ordinary weapon of Underdark origin, this adamantite halberd..."



#159 bob_veng

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Posted Yesterday, 03:12 AM

double 


Edited by bob_veng, Yesterday, 03:12 AM.


#160 Bartimaeus

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Posted Yesterday, 07:21 AM

Yeah, that's true - though the Lesser Demon Lord is not slain for his item, it's given when you give him the silver dragon eggs, which I think is a pretty special occasion all things considered. For the rest of what you said, I think I like the Duskblade and Blackmist ideas, but I'd be very hesitant about putting Dragon's Breath as the reward from the Lesser Demon Lord, because that means only evil characters can get it. That's part of why sometimes doing something thematically (really evil quest that requires you to be evil -> item that only evil characters can use) is practical, as you'd otherwise make good and neutral players want to do something completely reprehensible just for the sake of a reward. Right now, you get Blackmist and the ability to make Human Flesh for sacrificing her eggs, and you get the Ring of Air Control for saving them. Hmm. Like I said, I think I'll have to think about it more.


Edited by Bartimaeus, Yesterday, 07:21 AM.


#161 bob_veng

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Posted Yesterday, 09:34 AM

i've thought about Dragon's Breath being unavailable to good characters being a problem and determined that it's not because:

 

- they can still fall back on the Flail of Ages, which has the same specific utility value 

- Duskblade is also similar with it's bonus elemental damage

- when it comes to non-specific utility value i.e. just being a good halberd: there are many other good halberds: wave +4 is soon obtainable (it also does bonus elemental damage, but unreliably), and there are other decent halberds for a while...and then there is ravager

 

 

...

That's part of why sometimes doing something thematically (really evil quest that requires you to be evil -> item that only evil characters can use) is practical, as you'd otherwise make good and neutral players want to do something completely reprehensible just for the sake of a reward. 

...

 
consequential moral choices like that are actually a roleplaying staple: in order to be truly good, you may need to sacrifice something ... good characters will not give in to temptation, etc. any RPG design should not cater to either "good players" (those who habitually play good characters), or "evil players", but to true roleplayers
;)

Edited by bob_veng, Yesterday, 09:44 AM.


#162 Bartimaeus

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Posted Yesterday, 12:32 PM

Tell that to the BioWare devs who didn't even give good or even neutral players the option of choosing the evil path for that particular quest, :p.


Edited by Bartimaeus, Yesterday, 12:33 PM.


#163 Jarno Mikkola

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Posted Yesterday, 02:06 PM

Tell that to the BioWare devs who didn't even give good or even neutral players the option of choosing the evil path for that particular quest, :p.

Well, it has never been rewarding to play evil chars... try to be a sith in KotOR 1... and you'll find out that your party has worse equipment, with less experience and harder style to play the game, even if you have the options to be "evil".

In BG, if your rep drops to 1, everyone attacks the player char... which is very unrealistic, and needs to be fixed.


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#164 Arthas

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Posted Yesterday, 11:07 PM

Luckily, in bg 2 there are mods to fix the fact that your character gets impaired if you play evil. But still, when I find the chance, I would like to make the game as much rewarding as possible for Evil characters


By the way, here there are a list of ideas for Blackmist: https://forums.beamd...Comment_1003305


Edited by Arthas, Today, 02:27 AM.


#165 Bartimaeus

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Posted Today, 06:29 AM

Already has the immunity to blindness (+ immunity to backstab thrown in!) and the saving throw penalty, and I'm pretty sure "effect upon critical hit" is an EE-only opcode. So out of those ideas, you have a blinding effect, a paralyzing effect, or a +1 to AC effect. Out of those, I'd probably prefer a paralyzing effect - another blinding effect is extremely one-note, and AC is generic as heck.





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