Requests for improved compatibility / consolidation ...

[Luiz]

(For reference, my junk is here.)

 

BG2_Tweaks' "Happy Patch" & Luizmods' "Fix the vocal interjections of Neutral NPCs"

 

The Happy Patch changes the values of the entire HAPPY.2DA Neutral Column to zeroes, which undoes the positive value changes Luizmods makes.

 

Request: Please alter Happy Patch to only change negative values in the Neutral Column.

 

Further Consideration: Perhaps the Luizmods component could also be added to BG2_Tweaks? -- hell, I nicked the code for it from you CamDawg (the BG1NPC mod), so it's really yours already. (Although I felt 7-12 Reputation was more appropriate ... forget what your span was now.)

 

This would make one of Luizmods' components obsolete.

 

BG2_Tweaks' "Low Reputation Store Discount" & Luizmods' "Store prices not dependent on Reputation"

 

Added a note to mine that these two were mutually exclusive (both change same .2DA) so that's cool. However, any opinions about consolidating these within BG2_Tweaks?

e.g.:

Change Effect of Reputation on Store Prices?

n/q

1. Low Reputation Discount (Sabre, et al)

2. Reputation has no effect - prices set at 100% (Hard)

3. Reputation has no effect - prices set at 80% (Reasonable)

4. Reputation has no effect - prices set at 60% (Cheat)

 

That's a bit ungainly but you get the idea.

This would make another of Luizmods' components obsolete.

 

Clarifying / Organising Some Stuff in BG2_Tweaks

 

Basically, I think "Un-Nerfed THAC0 Table, Saving Throws, Grand-Mastery, and Arcane, Divine Spell Progression (Blucher, Weimer)" is a bit of a messy component.

 

* I'd suggest noting in your readme that the spell changes don't overwrite your PnP Tables if already installed.

 

* The Saving Throws stuff is all now incorporated into the Fixpack, isn't it? If so, the title of your component oughta be changed. Also, if so, half of Luizmods' "Blucher's Un-nerfed THAC0 and Saving Throws tables" is obsolete.

 

Now, can we make the other half obsolete as well? I'm thinking of what arose from Miloch's thread ... separating out the THAC0 changes from this bundled mod component, into it's own:

 

Classes continue to improve THAC0 progression past level 20?

n/q

1. Yes, but only up to base THAC0 of zero (Blucher)

2. Yes, and continue to negative base THAC0 (Miloch)

 

Again, the menu text that immediately comes to my mind is far too verbose.

 

* This leaves spell tables and Grand-Mastery. Again, perhaps they could be separated for clarity? It makes more sense to me if the two different GM fixes were two options of the same component (not one of them bundled with spells, the other alone) ... I'm assuming they (the GM fixes) are different.

 

---------

 

It might seem that I'm trying to offload a lot of my crap into BG2_Tweaks -- that's only partly true. My feelings are that the Neutral NPC stuff could definately have a place in BG2_Tweaks. I think you might have considered that at some stage when I first noisily raised the issue for consideration in the Fixpack?

 

The THAC0/Saving Throws crap is, as it stands, inefficiently organised. I stuffed Blucher's tables into Luizmods as a convenience, but it's not ideal to have it in a marginal mini-mod, when re-organising the components within BG2_Tweaks would be far preferable.

 

The Reputation-Pricing stuff really doesn't matter one way or the other. BG2_Tweaks is best incorporating cool stuff that has already proven itself, and so far I've had no feedback about my Reputation system changes, so it's probably too early to claim it as a worthwhile addition (feel free to disagree, of course ). Actually, the most positive feedback I've had about Luizmods is the Beautified Robes of Vecna component, so I'm definately not offering that up to BG2_Tweaks. Yet.

 

Anyway, that's enough blather -- for now.

 

Cheers,

Luiz.

[Miloch]

Basically, I think "Un-Nerfed THAC0 Table, Saving Throws, Grand-Mastery, and Arcane, Divine Spell Progression (Blucher, Weimer)" is a bit of a messy component...

 

* The Saving Throws stuff is all now incorporated into the Fixpack, isn't it? If so, the title of your component oughta be changed.

As far as I can tell, there was never a reason (or perhaps an existence) for the Saving Throws un-nerf. I checked them all in vanilla BG2 and Tutu and they follow the 2e PHB tables to the letter (except I didn't check the monk table since its not in the PHB but I'm assuming it's ok). For the record, this is what the saving throws are. In any case, the component doesn't touch the saving throw tables. So this component should be changed to:

Un-Nerfed THAC0 Table, Saving Throws, Grand-Mastery, and Arcane, Divine Spell Progression (Blucher, Weimer)

From Blucher, this component follows AD&D wizard and cleric spell progression more closely, and fixes some saving throw and proficiency and THAC0 table problems, etc.

Though also, as you suggest, I think this component should be broken out into separate subcomponents.

I'm thinking of what arose from Miloch's thread ... separating out the THAC0 changes from this bundled mod component, into it's own:

 

Classes continue to improve THAC0 progression past level 20?

n/q

1. Yes, but only up to base THAC0 of zero (Blucher)

2. Yes, and continue to negative base THAC0 (Miloch)

Here is "my" table for inclusion in the next Tweaks. It's really just the BG1 table extended to level 50 (like the current tweak) and capped at -10, which also matches the PHB and other 2e references (I still don't know why BG2 nerfed this). Here is the table compared to the existing Tweak and base BG2. I didn't bother with code since the current tweak just overwrites thac0.2da (I don't see why not in this case).

 

I like your other ideas for merging and simplifying, Luiz. Almost always a good idea, though not all modders are generous enough to "surrender" their code to a community mod.

 

Edit: Whoops, crossed out THAC0 instead of saving throw on my edit of the Tweaks readme.

[NiGHTMARE]

You know, I've always wanted to see The Bigg Tweaks and D0Tweak merged into BG2 Tweaks, and given that the authors of both are pretty good pals with CamDawg, I'm not sure why it hasn't happened .

[Salk]

NiGHTMARE's perspective is absolutely correct! the_bigg doesn't even release any more new versions of his mods and SimDing0 does his best to keep his big, quality production updated but it's hard (D0Tweaks and QuestPack have long been waiting for a needed update) to invest so much time in this so I believe that moving their tweaks to the BG2 Tweaks would be just great!

[Bursk]

You know, I've always wanted to see The Bigg Tweaks and D0Tweak merged into BG2 Tweaks, and given that the authors of both are pretty good pals with CamDawg, I'm not sure why it hasn't happened .

That would make a lot of sense. Simon is such a non-sexy name, don't you think?

[CamDawg]

Heh, because I can barely maintain Tweaks as it is? Have you seen how many bug reports I have to sort out for v4? Googly moogly!

 

(And since I'm finally making an appearance here, yes, I think this would be a sensible merge.)

[Miloch]

Heh, because I can barely maintain Tweaks as it is? Have you seen how many bug reports I have to sort out for v4?

Would it make it easier to spinoff the Tutu stuff and make it a separate component (and let someone else deal with that )? Somehow I think not though, since a lot of components apply to both Tutu and BG2 (like my THAC0 table restoration above - could practically be considered a 'fix' for Tutu since it *is* the BG1 table...).

Simon is such a non-sexy name, don't you think?

I dunno... I'm not really an authority on what makes a bloke's name sexy or not. But 'Simone' is kind of sexy for a female name, don't you think? Maybe an exotic French bird or some such...

[Luiz]

As far as I can tell, there was never a reason (or perhaps an existence) for the Saving Throws un-nerf. I checked them all in vanilla BG2 and Tutu and they follow the 2e PHB tables to the letter ...

Weird. Last time I checked the Thief and Wizard SAVE___.2DAs were definately missing their final saving throws improvement in vanilla BG2 (ie, BG2 SoA + ToB + Official ToB patch).

 

I like your other ideas for merging and simplifying, Luiz. Almost always a good idea, though not all modders are generous enough to "surrender" their code to a community mod.

Well, most of my code is simple junk, and the good stuff was ... "derived" ... from smarter coders, so I stake no claim to it, anyway. (Except the Beautified Robes of Vecna. Without that, I doubt many would try my mod anyway, so I'll be all "precious" about it. ) Basically, my thinking about the components mentioned is simply that if a component complements existing BG2_Tweaks components, it may be better as part of BG2_Tweaks, dependent on how the BG2_Tweaks overlords view its quality, utility, popularity, etc.

 

You know, I've always wanted to see The Bigg Tweaks and D0Tweak merged into BG2 Tweaks, and given that the authors of both are pretty good pals with CamDawg, I'm not sure why it hasn't happened.

I may not be remembering correctly, but I think that The Bigg was not entirely happy with the way some of his Tweaks were coded, and was looking to other, more elegant and less intrusive ways of coding them, and so did not seek their inclusion in BG2_Tweaks. I apologise if I am putting the wrong words into people's mouths here - my memory may very well be wrong. As for the D0Tweaks, damn, I'd love it if at least the Sensible Lore Tables were migrated across to BG2_Tweaks, but that's merely a personal view.

 

And since I'm finally making an appearance here, yes, I think this would be a sensible merge

[Bursk]

Cam, if you are going to sort out the Dingo's tweaks, could you perhaps implement Animal Summoning III into the BG1 summoning spells component? I was going to ask Sim if we would see this in the near future, but maybe I'm better off asking you about it.

 

Here's the original thread from PPG:

 

http://forums.pocketplane.net/index.php/topic,22420.0.html

 

Miloch, the only Simon I know has giant nostrils. I often ask him about his 20 inch rims.

[pro5]

I have a few unreleased tweaks of my own, if there's an interest I'll gladly contribute them to this project.

 

See here for more details.

[CamDawg]

Yer killin' me. Seriously.

[pro5]

[Miloch]

Why not throw in igi's Tweaks and plainab's while your at it? Assuming the authors are open to it anyhow. Maybe even Mix-Mod if someone can get a hold of Borsook. Or at least figure out how to make some of the features working, like turning off those annoying startup movies you get every bleedin' time you launch the game.

 

Oh and what's left of Tutufix, which is largely the tweaks. And all the bits in the BG1 Fixpack that aren't 'fixy' enough (e.g. Dudleyville tweaks)...

[Salk]

CamDawg,

 

as you can read here http://forums.pocketplane.net/index.php/topic,23692.0.html both the_bigg and SimDing0 would have nothing against BG2 Tweaks incorporating their respective mods.

 

I think it's the way to go...

 

Advantages: (1) one single Mod that includes almost all the tweaks in a single package (2) feedback concentrated on a single forum (3) possibility to keep the various components up-to-date (4) users will certainly be less confused using one Mod that does all the job

 

[Azazello]

I'm all for a merger, as long as the ReadMe's - both website and text file - prominently credit the original developers. And always credits them, even if someone comes along and significantly modifies the code.

 

I would love to see a team of coders overseeing all the tweaks, so that we don't burnout CamD. I know we all contribute but it would be great if some of our new coders stepped-up to captain certain tweaks, and/or sections thereof.