Iwdee content

[Grammarsalad]

There are (at least) two ways to handle IWD in EET and the good thing is, they do not exclude each other:

 

1. Integrate IWD technically,

make access available through worldmap, allow players to go there/leave there as they want, play the IWD plot, have some banters (no chapter needed, just use area check and/or IWD globals) for your NPCs. More or less this is *Play IWD with your EET party". >>> this is per default what the current feature of K4thos will already be.

You select this option automatically if you install IWDEE and integrate it via EET.

 

2. integrate IWD into the main EET storyline

make access available through worldmap after a certain event/trigger from the main plot, afterwards allow players to go there/leave there as they want, play the IWD plot. Have additional contents that relates to the Bhaalspawn trilogy, have banters that are related to the circumstances as well as to the story development. Adjust XPs and items to the overall progression (this may be done for option 1 as well - maybe even by the same component in EET-Tweaks?).

This option is available through a mod you may or may not install - but only in case you install IWDEE and integrate it via EET.

 

This approach allows for all freedom for the player to choose how to deal with IDW-EET

Looks like the best of both worlds

 

Edit: Sorry, I missed that last line in your last post...

[Ser Elryk]

There are (at least) two ways to handle IWD in EET and the good thing is, they do not exclude each other:

 

1. Integrate IWD technically,

make access available through worldmap, allow players to go there/leave there as they want, play the IWD plot, have some banters (no chapter needed, just use area check and/or IWD globals) for your NPCs. More or less this is *Play IWD with your EET party". >>> this is per default what the current feature of K4thos will already be.

You select this option automatically if you install IWDEE and integrate it via EET.

 

2. integrate IWD into the main EET storyline

make access available through worldmap after a certain event/trigger from the main plot, afterwards allow players to go there/leave there as they want, play the IWD plot. Have additional contents that relates to the Bhaalspawn trilogy, have banters that are related to the circumstances as well as to the story development. Adjust XPs and items to the overall progression (this may be done for option 1 as well - maybe even by the same component in EET-Tweaks?).

This option is available through a mod you may or may not install - but only in case you install IWDEE and integrate it via EET.

 

This approach allows for all freedom for the player to choose how to deal with IDW-EET

 

I like the sound of option 2 a lot.

[K4thos]

I've been thinking about this and came up with following idea based on your feedback. Instead of separating IWD1 and IWD2 storyline you will get into Icewind Dale the way it was previously planned for IWD2 content: as has been mentioned in IWD2 intro Targos needs help dealing with goblinoids problem and notices have been posted through the southern cities promising wealth and fame for adventures that would help with this task. So, the only thing added here is additional expedition from Baldur's Gate (intro mentions Neverwinter and Luskan). Considering we want to allow travelling there at any point (even on level 1, chapter 1, if that's the player's choice) the cutscene will be triggered via dialogue with someone in Ulgoth's Beard. That's it, no far-fetched excuses or time travelling nonsense. An optional questline with reasonable explanation why party decided to travel there. It's up to player when or if he/she would like to visits those areas and start IWD1 and IWD2 storylines and when to finish them. IWD2 and Heart of Winter content is designed for high level parties, so most players will probably delay it for mid or late BG2. But once you leave Targos, Eastheaven will show up on the worldmap, so you can initiate IWD1 storyline early, if you wish. Travelling back to BG areas is of course possible at any point. How do you like this implementation?

[Grammarsalad]

I've been thinking about this and came up with following idea based on your feedback. Instead of separating IWD1 and IWD2 storyline you will get into Icewind Dale the way it was previously planned for IWD2 content: as has been mentioned in

Targos needs help dealing with goblinoids problem and notices have been posted through the southern cities promising wealth and fame for adventures that would help with this task. So, the only thing added here is additional expedition from Baldur's Gate (intro mentions Neverwinter and Luskan). Considering we want to allow travelling there at any point (even on on level 1, chapter 1) the cutscene will be triggered via dialogue with someone in Ulgoth's Beard. That's it, no far-fetched excuses or time travelling nonsense. An optional questline with reasonable explanation why party decided to travel there. It's up to player when or if he/she would like to visits those areas and start IWD1 and IWD2 storylines. IWD2 content is designed for high level parties, so most players will probably delay it for BG2. But once you leave Targos, Eastheaven will show up on the worldmap, so you can initiate IWD1 storyline early. Travelling back to BG areas is of course possible at any point. How you like this implementation?

I like this for option 1 as described by Roxanne. Option 2, I assume, would be best left for a third party mod

[Roxanne]

 

I've been thinking about this and came up with following idea based on your feedback. Instead of separating IWD1 and IWD2 storyline you will get into Icewind Dale the way it was previously planned for IWD2 content: as has been mentioned in

Targos needs help dealing with goblinoids problem and notices have been posted through the southern cities promising wealth and fame for adventures that would help with this task. So, the only thing added here is additional expedition from Baldur's Gate (intro mentions Neverwinter and Luskan). Considering we want to allow travelling there at any point (even on on level 1, chapter 1) the cutscene will be triggered via dialogue with someone in Ulgoth's Beard. That's it, no far-fetched excuses or time travelling nonsense. An optional questline with reasonable explanation why party decided to travel there. It's up to player when or if he/she would like to visits those areas and start IWD1 and IWD2 storylines. IWD2 content is designed for high level parties, so most players will probably delay it for BG2. But once you leave Targos, Eastheaven will show up on the worldmap, so you can initiate IWD1 storyline early. Travelling back to BG areas is of course possible at any point. How you like this implementation?

I like this for option 1 as described by Roxanne. Option 2, I assume, would be best left for a third party mod

 

Option 2 (as a third party mod - that was always my idea) no longer is valid. Any modder now trying to come up with a plot to include IWD a bit tighter into the main story will be accused of delaying access to the extension and *forcing* the player to play the game in a specific way. It was a brainstorming idea but probably not feasible under these conditions. So IWD will remain the playground for some *have you ever seen snow* banters in your party.

I will include my additional ideas into another part of the game that is not accessible from the beginning, but only after there is enough substance of the main story to make sense. (an extension of wolfwere island comes to my mind there - in order to get there you first need to get some charts from Baldur City - something that could have been done for Targos as well...)

[K4thos]

an extension of wolfwere island comes to my mind there - in order to get there you first need to get some charts from Baldur City - something that could have been done for Targos as well...

Current idea for implementation is flexible enough that you could simply move the NPC from Ulgoth's Beard to BG docks yourself via Sandrah mod, if IWD-in-EET is detected, without any changes. Can't see a problem with it. If you're afraid that someone will accuse you for what you mentioned than we could add such delay to main package as a separate, optional component.

[Roxanne]

 

an extension of wolfwere island comes to my mind there - in order to get there you first need to get some charts from Baldur City - something that could have been done for Targos as well...

Current idea for implementation is flexible enough that you could simply move the NPC from Ulgoth's Beard to BG docks yourself via Sandrah mod, if IWD-in-EET is detected, without any changes. Can't see a problem with it.

 

Of course this could be done - could also use hide/reveal area for this. But this is not the point.

If game default is that IWD is accessible from the beginning of the game but some mod comes along to delay this access, this mod will not be accepted, will be critisized heavily for doing such a thing etc... So if I want to add additional contents to the game that can only become available e.g.chapter4 or 5, then I need either to choose a location that is not available until then or create my own extension for it (like I did for Waterdeep). Otherwise me (or any other modder doing it) would be accused of *hijacking* the game, respectively IWD.

Consequently IWD does not qualify for any additional contents that requires the story to have been evolved to some specific point, i.e. any additional content for IWD must be generic to fit at any time you chose to go there. This limits it to *stand-alone* episodes you may locate into IWD, like some local riddle, some assassins, a mini quest here and there...

[K4thos]

Roxanne, I think I get what you mean. I will wait for some more comments before starting to implement it. Maybe AWizardDidIt, who is writing interjections for vanilla NPCs, will post something about it. Any feedback is appreciated.

[AWizardDidIt]

I personally think it would be much better for the experience if there was some npc initiated "quest" to head up to Icewind Dale. I like the idea of it just being an npc in Ulgoth's Beard, that makes a lot of sense. Once they get up to the IWD region they can just initiate those campaigns however and head back between that area and BG per normal traveling means.

 

Just a quick add on idea, I'm not sure how complicated it is, but as a part of the quest you could get some kind of item that just teleports you between the BG region and the IWD region. That way it's an easier justification for a trip that would take weeks on foot between the two. Even if it's not an item that actually did anything but anytime you fast traveled between Easthaven/Targos and a BG area you'd get a dialogue text saying something about using a magic stone to travel faster. Not sure which would be easier.

 

Either way if you'd like I can write up a quick quest premise. Again, I'm still learning the coding of the dialogue but I can give it to you in a flow chart or something simple like that.

[Roxanne]

I personally think it would be much better for the experience if there was some npc initiated "quest" to head up to Icewind Dale. I like the idea of it just being an npc in Ulgoth's Beard, that makes a lot of sense. Once they get up to the IWD region they can just initiate those campaigns however and head back between that area and BG per normal traveling means.

 

Just a quick add on idea, I'm not sure how complicated it is, but as a part of the quest you could get some kind of item that just teleports you between the BG region and the IWD region. That way it's an easier justification for a trip that would take weeks on foot between the two. Even if it's not an item that actually did anything but anytime you fast traveled between Easthaven/Targos and a BG area you'd get a dialogue text saying something about using a magic stone to travel faster. Not sure which would be easier.

 

Either way if you'd like I can write up a quick quest premise. Again, I'm still learning the coding of the dialogue but I can give it to you in a flow chart or something simple like that.

Just a few additional ideas - maybe the different approaches do not exclude each other completely.

1. I think that *magical travelling* always is a crutch - the idea of using the new improved features of the worldmap is much more realistic and far better than all this transportation stuff. (And is the PC under some time pressure??) This magical stone thing sounds a bit like NEJ and makes IWD appear more *external* to the game. Exploring it with worldmap makes it look like it always was supposed to be there.

2. Getting a clue from someone in Ulgoth's Beard or somewhere else is fine - if some mod requires some delay to evolve a plot, this may still be done, e.g. by the need of some artifact from the Sword Coast that allows you further action in IWD plot (you get some initial part of IWD but to advance beyond a specific point you need to have something that you only find in the main plot at some point).

[Cahir]

 

I personally think it would be much better for the experience if there was some npc initiated "quest" to head up to Icewind Dale. I like the idea of it just being an npc in Ulgoth's Beard, that makes a lot of sense. Once they get up to the IWD region they can just initiate those campaigns however and head back between that area and BG per normal traveling means.

 

Just a quick add on idea, I'm not sure how complicated it is, but as a part of the quest you could get some kind of item that just teleports you between the BG region and the IWD region. That way it's an easier justification for a trip that would take weeks on foot between the two. Even if it's not an item that actually did anything but anytime you fast traveled between Easthaven/Targos and a BG area you'd get a dialogue text saying something about using a magic stone to travel faster. Not sure which would be easier.

 

Either way if you'd like I can write up a quick quest premise. Again, I'm still learning the coding of the dialogue but I can give it to you in a flow chart or something simple like that.

Just a few additional ideas - maybe the different approaches do not exclude each other completely.

1. I think that *magical travelling* always is a crutch - the idea of using the new improved features of the worldmap is much more realistic and far better than all this transportation stuff. (And is the PC under some time pressure??) This magical stone thing sounds a bit like NEJ and makes IWD appear more *external* to the game. Exploring it with worldmap makes it look like it always was supposed to be there.

2. Getting a clue from someone in Ulgoth's Beard or somewhere else is fine - if some mod requires some delay to evolve a plot, this may still be done, e.g. by the need of some artifact from the Sword Coast that allows you further action in IWD plot (you get some initial part of IWD but to advance beyond a specific point you need to have something that you only find in the main plot at some point).

 

 

I think the more sensible type of "magical travelling" would be some kind of permanent two-way portal, which could be easily embedded in the FR lore. There are literally hundreds of different kind of portals in Faerun, some even as old as creator races themselves. There was a nice series of articles at the WoTC site called Perilous Gateways which could be a motherlode of ideas for setting a proper portal to Icewind Dale.

[AWizardDidIt]

Yeah I'm not particularly attached to the idea of a magic teleporting stone either, just trying to look for some loose justification for a very long journey. Maybe there's a better way to handle it than that. Ulgoth's beard is a port town and IWD2 starts with you going to Targos so maybe you could justify it by saying the PCs have access to a ship they can use at any time for purposes of traveling up and down the coast as they want between Ulgoth's Beard and Targos and any fast travel between the two is assumed to be partly by ship?

[K4thos]

Regarding travelling to and from Icewind Dale. I think I've found a way to make it both convenient and believable. I think it will be hard to come up with something better than the proposed idea of travelling to IWD for the first time via boat (it's just very convenient considering the plot for it is already there in the beginning of IWD2). Than how exactly we come back to old areas? Well, by boat of course. But there is no need to speak with anyone or anything like that. You click on one of the BG areas on worldmap and than there is let's say 33% chance for "random" encounter on the way. The area of this random encounter is a ship:

 

This is how player knows that going to and from Icewind Dale always takes place by boat, so the "suspension of disbelieve" is preserved even though the travel takes just about a week or two, without changing anything in a way we are travelling via worldmap. It's just an eye candy to make such travel times believable.

 

Anyone interested in removing githyanki ship from AR1607.TIS? Here is how the area looks with it:

 

btw. IWD-in-EET will have random encounters in normal travelling between IWD areas too (for some reason they were absent in vanilla games). Take a look at WhiteAgnus' WIP:

 

 

2. Getting a clue from someone in Ulgoth's Beard or somewhere else is fine - if some mod requires some delay to evolve a plot, this may still be done, e.g. by the need of some artifact from the Sword Coast that allows you further action in IWD plot (you get some initial part of IWD but to advance beyond a specific point you need to have something that you only find in the main plot at some point).

sounds like a good idea. IWD-in-EET is meant to be treated like vanilla content, so feel free to adjust it hoever you wish with Sandrah mod.

[Roxanne]

 

 

I personally think it would be much better for the experience if there was some npc initiated "quest" to head up to Icewind Dale. I like the idea of it just being an npc in Ulgoth's Beard, that makes a lot of sense. Once they get up to the IWD region they can just initiate those campaigns however and head back between that area and BG per normal traveling means.

 

Just a quick add on idea, I'm not sure how complicated it is, but as a part of the quest you could get some kind of item that just teleports you between the BG region and the IWD region. That way it's an easier justification for a trip that would take weeks on foot between the two. Even if it's not an item that actually did anything but anytime you fast traveled between Easthaven/Targos and a BG area you'd get a dialogue text saying something about using a magic stone to travel faster. Not sure which would be easier.

 

Either way if you'd like I can write up a quick quest premise. Again, I'm still learning the coding of the dialogue but I can give it to you in a flow chart or something simple like that.

Just a few additional ideas - maybe the different approaches do not exclude each other completely.

1. I think that *magical travelling* always is a crutch - the idea of using the new improved features of the worldmap is much more realistic and far better than all this transportation stuff. (And is the PC under some time pressure??) This magical stone thing sounds a bit like NEJ and makes IWD appear more *external* to the game. Exploring it with worldmap makes it look like it always was supposed to be there.

2. Getting a clue from someone in Ulgoth's Beard or somewhere else is fine - if some mod requires some delay to evolve a plot, this may still be done, e.g. by the need of some artifact from the Sword Coast that allows you further action in IWD plot (you get some initial part of IWD but to advance beyond a specific point you need to have something that you only find in the main plot at some point).

 

 

I think the more sensible type of "magical travelling" would be some kind of permanent two-way portal, which could be easily embedded in the FR lore. There are literally hundreds of different kind of portals in Faerun, some even as old as creator races themselves. There was a nice series of articles at the WoTC site called Perilous Gateways which could be a motherlode of ideas for setting a proper portal to Icewind Dale.

 

I have to admit that I used this "creator race portal travelling" myself for my Return to Faerun mod (which happens after ToB and allows you to revisit the whole maps/areas of the trilogy). This was done in my case as a workaround in a BGT game due to some limitations of the worldmap there. I was more than happy when k4thos published the EET feature of the unique worldmap for the whole game. My immediate idea was - *how great - now I can get rid of all of that magical travelling stuff and make the whole game far more enjoyable*.

But that may just be my personal taste.

A good compromise would be to have an option like this inside the game:

- travel via worldmap for free but with longer travelling time

- take a ship between Targos and Ulgoth's beard if you pay a good load of GP - but shorter travelling time.

[Roxanne]

Regarding travelling to and from Icewind Dale. I think I've found a way to make it both convenient and believable. I think it will be hard to come up with something better than the proposed idea of travelling to IWD for the first time via boat (it's just very convenient considering the plot for it is already there in the beginning of IWD2). Than how exactly we come back to old areas? Well, by boat of course. But there is no need to speak with anyone or anything like that. You click on one of the BG areas on worldmap and than there is let's say 33% chance for "random" encounter on the way. The area of this random encounter is a ship:

 

 

This is how player knows that going to and from Icewind Dale always takes place by boat, so the "suspension of disbelieve" is preserved even though the travel takes just about a week or two, without changing anything in a way we are travelling via worldmap. It's just an eye candy to make such travel times believable.

 

Anyone interested in removing githyanki ship from AR1607.TIS? Here is how the area looks with it:

 

 

 

btw. IWD-in-EET will have random encounters in normal travelling between IWD areas too (for some reason there were none in vanilla games). Take a look at WhiteAgnus' WIP:

 

 

2. Getting a clue from someone in Ulgoth's Beard or somewhere else is fine - if some mod requires some delay to evolve a plot, this may still be done, e.g. by the need of some artifact from the Sword Coast that allows you further action in IWD plot (you get some initial part of IWD but to advance beyond a specific point you need to have something that you only find in the main plot at some point).

sounds like a good idea. IWD-in-EET is meant to be treated like vanilla content, so feel free to adjust it hoever you wish with Sandrah mod.

I have done the ship with the githyanki part removed already for my RtF mod, including the concept to travel between far apart maps by ship (if you have enough money) and also having random encounters on the way.

In RtF this was sometimes a workaround since the BGT worldmap required some *tricks* to travel between maps of different game parts (something no longer necessary in EET)