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NPCs Custom Equipment


Demivrgvs

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After thinking about it I decided this matter deserved a dedicated topic, as there are many things still open to changes here (Nalia's V3 ring pratically is the only custom item I'm 100% satisfied of) and there's a lot of potential. These items aren't just other unique items, they are supposed to perfectly fit a particular NPC, stressing their in-game role/class, and even the personality if possible.

Anyway, the main reason which convinced me to open a topic on this matter is the following doubt: do you think changing weapon type, and eventually character's starting proficiencies is too much behind IR's scope? I'm asking because while working on my internal update from V3 to 3.1 I stumbled upon quite a few cases where such drastical changes actually seemed the right thing to do. For example:

Yoshimo

His katana is a pain to handle. Katanas are not suited to backstab in the first place (at least within IR) and as a single class thief Yoshi cannot be in the front line much. Judging by player reports in various forums the vast majority of us end up giving him Tuigan and rarely use his katana. Long story short, do you think it would be a bad idea to change his custom item from a katana to a ninja-to or a short bow? In the latter case we shouldn't even need to change his proficiencies.

Valygar

I kinda grew accustomed to him wielding katanas (in fact I would have not suggested this change if it wasn't for Ardanis), but in theory his background gives us no reason to think his family blade should be such an exotic item, and unlike Yoshi he surely isn't tied much to Kara-Tur, or the east in general. So, keeping into account Forgotten Realms lore, wouldn't you expect Valygar to wield a scimitar instead?

Mazzy

I know bows are more cool, but am I the only one thinking her Bow of Arvoreen should actually be a Sling of Arvoreen? Slings are the classic choice of halflings, they even get racial +1 thac0 bonus for them, and having an NPC using an underrepresented weapon type is very cool imo.

Edwin
You know how much I hate vanilla's "+2 spell slots for each spell lvl", it's INSANE to say the least, and really unimaginative. Leaving aside that even a "+1 spell slot for each spell lvl" would still be more than enough, I propose a little incentive to accept this nerf. What about adding an effect, which I'd call Empower Summons (to differentiate it from KR's Augmented Summoning), which grants something like +1 bonus to attack rolls, dmg rolls, AC, and +10 hit points to every allied summons?

In theory I would have preferred it to affect only summons cast by Edwin, but within IR's limits I can only make it work as a "hidden aura" affecting any allied summons. That being said, it still is worth it imo. As long as the summoning cap is there its unlikely to dedicate multiple casters to summoning anyway, and with KR you'll have even more reasons to use only Edwin as summoner.

Korgan
Did you know he always had a unique item disguised as a common magical axe? I simply suggest to make its uniqueness not only a matter of filename.

To try something a little different I'd suggest a Bloodlust effect: each successful hit grants +1 dmg for 2 rounds. What do you think?

Viconia
Pretty simple. I'll tweak the two items you get from her "personal quest". Handmaiden's Mace can easily be a +3 envenomed weapon, perhaps with web on hit too, or something either drow-related or particularly useful to Viconia. Her Dark Elven Chainmail can easily be a sort of Drowcraft Spellchain which doesn't get destroyed by daylight, and I think making it raise even more her outstanding magic resistance is the obvious choice.

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Yoshimo

While I understand your motives and actually agree with them from a gameplay perspective, I want to add here that there is at least one Yoshimo Romance mod talking about his Katana. Also keep in mind, that such an exotic weapon may be the object of conversation in banters of some NPC mods (not that I remember though). Furthermore, as a native Kara-Tur a Katana suits him very well. I then checked his dialog files and they really indicate that he uses swords (and therefor need to be changed). Here an example: "I would be honored to wield my sword for you."

 

On the other hand, his business as Bounty Hunter and his proficiencies really indicate that he is a good archer too. Feel free to add a bow then.

 

EDIT: A weapon morphing abilitiy would be a good compromise.

 

Mazzy

Thats a different case here. As you already said, a sling would suit her much better as a halfling. Furthermore, a sling would effectively allow to use shields with her, because you can use both short swords and slings along with shields. I checked the Mazzy Friendship mod and her ingame dialoge files too, and it seems they don't refer to a bow in any way, or am I wrong?

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Yoshimo

While I understand your motives and actually agree with them from a gameplay perspective, I want to add here that there is at least one Yoshimo Romance mod talking about his Katana. Also keep in mind, that such an exotic weapon may be the object of conversation in banters of some NPC mods (not that I remember though). Furthermore, as a native Kara-Tur a Katana suits him very well. I then checked his dialog files and they really indicate that he uses swords (and therefor need to be changed). Here an example: "I would be honored to wield my sword for you."
Well, I'd still give Yoshi a Katana +1, and he would still use katanas. The example you give may as well refer to any sword he wields, and even to no sword at all as it could be the classic "you have my sword" line (aka "I'm with you"). I find hard to imagine any mod referencing Yoshi's sword in any particular way, for a simple reason: vanilla's Yoshi sword is just a plain +1 sword.

 

On the other hand, his business as Bounty Hunter and his proficiencies really indicate that he is a good archer too. Feel free to add a bow then.
Well, that could actually be seen as the same thing. Yoshi keeps a Katana +1 (the same sword he had in vanilla) and gets a unique bow instead. :D

 

EDIT: A weapon morphing abilitiy would be a good compromise.
It's kinda "out of character" imo. Amongst vanilla NPCs I could only imagine Jan having an item with such a "wild" effect.

 

Mazzy

Thats a different case here. As you already said, a sling would suit her much better as a halfling. Furthermore, a sling would effectively allow to use shields with her, because you can use both short swords and slings along with shields.
That's another good reason to change it yes. :)

 

I checked the Mazzy Friendship mod and her ingame dialoge files too, and it seems they don't refer to a bow in any way, or am I wrong?
We'll double check.
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do you think it would be a bad idea to change his custom item from a katana to a short bow

That was the part of your post, that made me believe you suggested to remove his katana entirely.

 

The example you give may as well refer to any sword he wields, and even to no sword at all as it could be the classic "you have my sword" line (aka "I'm with you").

You may be right here. Very Lord of the Rings like though. :p

 

Well, I'd still give Yoshi a Katana +1, and he would still use katanas.

Yes, as long as you give him his Katana and not a plain +1 one (description wise), I think it should be fine.

 

As for this particular romance mod:

 

Yoshimo tells Charname, that this Katana was given to him my his elder sister after their father (a Kara-Turan swordsmith) finished a new one for her. It is also metioned that he needs "generations" to prepare them.

 

So at least it's description and bam should stay to keep some of it's uniqueness.

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Yoshimo

Well, I'd still give Yoshi a Katana +1, and he would still use katanas.

Yes, as long as you give him his Katana and not a plain +1 one (description wise), I think it should be fine.

 

As for this particular romance mod:

 

Yoshimo tells Charname, that this Katana was given to him my his elder sister after their father (a Kara-Turan swordsmith) finished a new one for her. It is also metioned that he needs "generations" to prepare them.

 

So at least it's description and bam should stay to keep some of it's uniqueness.

Well, I've looked into it because it seemed too strange to have a banter dedicated to a damn plain +1 sword. That mod actually overwrites Yoshi's sword to improve it. It adds a luck bonus and a chance to cause bleeding damage. Installing that mod over IR's main component would revert any of my change, thus not ruining compatibility, and if the modder of Yoshi's Romance is still around I may even add a check to avoid touching Yoshi's sword if that mod is detected (in case it's installed before IR).

 

That being said, I may as well keep Yoshi's katana, it's just that I have no idea what to do with it. The effect I had in mind for his bow (chance to cause unconsciousness on failed save) doesn't suit a katana imo, and the katana itself doesn't suit Yoshi anyway as the only time Yoshi would use a melee weapon instead of a bow is for backstabbing, but within IR katanas suffer a multiplier penalty (I made Valygar's katana an exception - but two exceptions start to seem a rule). If you ask me, whatever we do with his katana (and without suggestions I have no ideas) I'd still make him use Tuigan or any other magical bow instead.

 

Keeping his Katana +1 as a unique Katana +1 with no unique feature seems kinda lame to me...but it may be just me.

 

Sarevok

Hello Demi, please take to the account Ascension's improvement of the sword of chaos +2 to sword of chaos +4.
Yep, I was going to mention it later, but I do planned to modify Ascension's SoC long ago. It will be of +4 enchantment, keep the current Vampiric effect, and get immunity to fear and hold; but the most important feature I'm going to suggest is moving to the sword Sarveok's hidden and nowhere mentioned Deathbringer Assault ability. :)
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Yoshimo

Thats all fine, what you said. But personally, I'm still not fully convinced. Even his Portrait indicates that he is more a swordsman than an archer. Even his orginal planned one... I for one always wished he had a companion sword too, because of this (even if it was ineffective)... Funnily enough, I've always seen him as BG's Leonardo (from the Turtles)... kitchy I know...

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Yoshi

If I understand correctly Demi wants to change katana to something else, because katana doesn't fit thief (backstabbing) well.

Maybe then try to change it to wakizashi/ ninja-to? Still exotic weapon, that is nice reference to Kara-tur, and fits thieves much better. .

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Yoshi

agree with Picollo.

 

Mazzy

I do find that slings would fit her better.

 

In generel

I don't see the need in this. Level1NPC and many other mods does this, so why IR?

 

Cheers

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The dilemma is this - we can rework NPC items to the (supposedly) ideal state, but it would require patching proficiencies. It does go slightly beyond the mod's scope, but would we then want to make yet another small mod to attend NPC stuff, rather than to add an option to IR? It still is an item tweak, and therefore still falls under the "Item" brand.

 

Level1NPC and many other mods does this, so why IR?
I assume you mean patching NPC's proficiencies? I don't use L1NPC, mainly because I'm simply sufficiently content with Bioware's settings to bother with manual re-building. In light of this, few specific changes by IR would win over L1's full rearrangement. Of course, we'd have to make it optional then, or maybe even disabled by default.

 

Yoshi

If I understand correctly Demi wants to change katana to something else, because katana doesn't fit thief (backstabbing) well.

Maybe then try to change it to wakizashi/ ninja-to? Still exotic weapon, that is nice reference to Kara-tur, and fits thieves much better.

Ninja-to is my pick too, although without prof rearrangement it will be slightly less effective.
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In the end it boils down to this: How do YOU as the modder want it to be in YOUR game? That's what mods are: a modder modifying the game for their enjoyment and sharing that so that others may hopefully enjoy it as well.

 

What you can do is document your thoughts and reasons and provide the component which changes it that way. However, since you asked and you've been given several different ideas and thoughts you are now obligated to address these. Easiest way is to provide varied subcomponents, some of which may be blocked from showing if other mods such as NPC mods with specific dialog about his weapons are present.

 

Personally, I'd apply igi's Learn Through Use along side my personal companion mod for his mod which doubles the LTU value and gives points then for weapon styles, then I'd just give the poor guy whatever weapon I want. end of story :p

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The dilemma is this - we can rework NPC items to the (supposedly) ideal state, but it would require patching proficiencies. It does go slightly beyond the mod's scope, but would we then want to make yet another small mod to attend NPC stuff, rather than to add an option to IR? It still is an item tweak, and therefore still falls under the "Item" brand.
Imo, the whole matter partially belongs to IR and partially to KR, much like Kensai wearing bracers.

 

Level1NPC and many other mods does this, so why IR?
I assume you mean patching NPC's proficiencies? I don't use L1NPC, mainly because I'm simply sufficiently content with Bioware's settings to bother with manual re-building. In light of this, few specific changes by IR would win over L1's full rearrangement. Of course, we'd have to make it optional then, or maybe even disabled by default.
L1 NPC doesn't alter weapon's stats, wherease within IR everything can be tweaked (weapon type, weapon abilities, and even weapon concept/lore to a certain extent) to better fit the NPC role, class and attitude/personality.

 

Yoshi

If I understand correctly Demi wants to change katana to something else, because katana doesn't fit thief (backstabbing) well.

Maybe then try to change it to wakizashi/ ninja-to? Still exotic weapon, that is nice reference to Kara-tur, and fits thieves much better.

Ninja-to is my pick too, although without prof rearrangement it will be slightly less effective.
Not as good as making it a bow imo, but better than a katana. That being said, to a lesser extent it would still be somewhat "incompatible" with Yoshi Romance Mod, because crafting a ninja-to surely isn't the same thing as crafting a masterwork katana.
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* Yoshimo: his katana is a pain to handle. Katanas are not suited to backstab in the first place (at least within IR) and as a single class thief Yoshi cannot be in the front line much. Judging by player reports in various forums the vast majority of us end up giving him Tuigan and rarely use his katana. Long story short, do you think it would be a bad idea to change his custom item from a katana to a short bow? In this case we shouldn't even need to change his proficiencies.

 

I'd vote for a wakizashi or a ninja-to then

The fact that his portrait show him as a swordsman is really important I believe (even if players use him as an archer, he still is a swordsman)

 

In IR aren't wakizashi falling under the same proficiency type as katana ? Are wakizashi allowed for backstabbing ?

If they are, it would be the best and easiest solution.

 

OR make it a ninja-to and change proficiencies.

 

OR you can just allow yoshi's katana for backstabbing.

You say you did it already for Valygar's katana, but I think it would be better for Yoshi's, and I don't like that Corthalas' family blade is a katana anyway, it just doesn't make sense to me.

 

 

 

* Valygar: I kinda grew accustomed to him wielding katanas (in fact I would have not suggested this change if it wasn't for Ardanis), but in theory his background gives us no reason to think his family blade should be such an exotic item, and unlike Yoshi he surely isn't tied much to Kara-Tur, or the east in general. So, keeping into account Forgotten Realms lore, wouldn't you expect Valygar to wield a scimitar instead?

 

I totally second that.

A scimitar, or some kinf of bastard sword maybe.

 

I never use Valygar for backstabbing so to me, it just doesn't matter, but maybe it's something to take into account ?

 

 

 

* Mazzy: I know bows are more cool, but am I the only one thinking the Bow of Arvoreen should actually be the Sling of Arvoreen? Slings are the classic choice of halflings, they even get racial bonuses for them, and having an NPC using an underrepresented weapon type is very cool imo.

 

 

Yay for slings !

And yay for the fact that it will allow her to always keep her shield !

 

BUT : there's already a "Sling of Arvoreen +2" that isn't tied to Mazzy so...

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A few replies before mentioning a couple of new ideas. :)

 

Yoshimo

In IR aren't wakizashi falling under the same proficiency type as katana ? Are wakizashi allowed for backstabbing ?

If they are, it would be the best and easiest solution.

Conceptually (IRL) wakizashi was not intended to be used as a primary weapon, it's only a companion sword and very rarely used. More often than not katanas were wielded with two hands, and dual wielding was extremely rare because of the incredible amount of strength and skill required to properly use a katana with a single hand while keeping the wakizashi in the off hand for parrying and surprise/counter attacks.

 

Wakizashi doesn't suffer any backstab multiplier because we counted it as a light weapon. Looking at it again it's strange to have it as good as a ninja-to for backstabbing purposes (more damaging, but less "precise" because of the slashing dmg type), but at the same time a -1 multiplier penalty may be too much severe for it.

 

OR make it a ninja-to and change proficiencies.
Conceptually this is a better solution imo.

 

OR you can just allow yoshi's katana for backstabbing.

You say you did it already for Valygar's katana, but I think it would be better for Yoshi's, and I don't like that Corthalas' family blade is a katana anyway, it just doesn't make sense to me.

Yeah, but for Valygar I had an easy justification, mithral material (his armor already was made of it in vanilla, and his katana's bam could fit it).

 

Regarding Valygar, he already has a lower backstab multiplier, whatever weapon type we decide to give him it absolutely needs to be suitable for backstabbing (ironically within vanilla Valygar's Family Blade could not be used for backstabbing at all, ahahah).

 

Valygar

I kinda grew accustomed to him wielding katanas (in fact I would have not suggested this change if it wasn't for Ardanis), but in theory his background gives us no reason to think his family blade should be such an exotic item, and unlike Yoshi he surely isn't tied much to Kara-Tur, or the east in general. So, keeping into account Forgotten Realms lore, wouldn't you expect Valygar to wield a scimitar instead?
I totally second that.

A scimitar, or some kinf of bastard sword maybe.

 

I never use Valygar for backstabbing so to me, it just doesn't matter, but maybe it's something to take into account ?

Right now making his sword a scimitar wouldn't change much (same multiplier of katanas), though in theory I think RL scimitars are not as good as long swords or katanas to perform precise strikes, because unlike them, which can thrust too, scimitars can pratty much only slash.

 

Mazzy

Yay for slings !

And yay for the fact that it will allow her to always keep her shield !

 

BUT : there's already a "Sling of Arvoreen +2" that isn't tied to Mazzy so...

I can easily handle that by changing the in-game one name/lore, or by giving Mazzy that sling, and replacing the in-game one with another unique sling.

 

Brb for a couple of new suggestions...

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