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#31 devSin

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Posted 11 April 2005 - 11:52 AM

6 seconds = 1 round
60 seconds = 1 turn (10 rounds)

7200 seconds = 1 day
3600 seconds = 12 hours
1800 seconds = 6 hours
900 seconds = 3 hours
600 seconds = 2 hours
300 seconds = 1 hour
5 seconds = 1 minute
1 second = 12 seconds

A round is six seconds long in real-time. This means nothing in game time. A round is a round. A turn is 10 rounds. 9 hours is 2700 seconds.

#32 NiGHTMARE

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Posted 11 April 2005 - 11:58 AM

But I don't think an entry of 1 in the duration actually equals 1 second game time, it's 10 seconds game time.

EDIT: oh, and according to the BG2 manual, I was right about casting times - they're not the same as duration. So a casting time of 10 = 1 round.

Speed Factors are numbers between 1 and 10 (indicating 1/10 of a round and 10/10ths of a round respectively for a character that can attack once per round with a weapon).

Casting Times for priests and wizards are exactly the same as speed factors of weapons – the casting times are between 1 and 10 and represent how quickly a mage or priest can release a spell (the lower the number, the faster the cast, just as for speed factors).


Edited by NiGHTMARE, 11 April 2005 - 12:08 PM.


#33 devSin

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Posted 11 April 2005 - 12:08 PM

But I don't think an entry of 1 in the duration field = 1 second game time. It equals 10 seconds game time.

Effect durations are specified in real time. Most spells are specified in parts of rounds, so you use 6 or 12 or 18, which determines how many rounds the effect will last. These are real-time values that correspond to each creature's personal initiative round. When you need to do some absolute time, like 9 hours, you need values that correspond directly to game time.

Casting time is something completely different, where 1 = instant and 9 = forever. I have no idea if this relates to duration of a round, or actual seconds, or if it is some sliding scale and the engine just fakes it.

EDIT: oh, and according to the BG2 manual, I was right about casting times - they're not the same as duration. So a casting time of 10 = 1 round.

It is very rare to find any instance where BioWare used a casting time greater than 9 (maybe it actually spills over into the next round or there's some other engine quirk). I know there's a 10 in Contingency, but it's ignored completely.

Anyway, I would suggest as a rule of thumb that 9 = both 9/10 and 10/10 round (for the purposes of casting time). But yeah, the speed factor juice from the manual sounds accurate (WRT how spellcasting works in the game).

Edited by devSin, 11 April 2005 - 12:13 PM.


#34 NiGHTMARE

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Posted 11 April 2005 - 12:17 PM

I think perhaps what I should have said is that 6 seconds of real time = 1 minute game time, not 5 seconds of real time = 1 minute game time.

Oh and BTW Minor Sequencer has a casting time of 11, dunno what effect that has as I don't think I've ever actually used it :).

Edited by NiGHTMARE, 11 April 2005 - 12:23 PM.


#35 devSin

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Posted 11 April 2005 - 12:21 PM

I think perhaps what I should have said is that 6 seconds of real time = 1 minute game time, not 5 seconds of real time = 1 minute game time.

Excepting, of course, that 5 seconds of real time does in-fact = 1 minute of game time. A round is six seconds long. It has no relevance to game time. A turn is 72 seconds in game time, but this means absolutely nothing. The only thing important is that it's 60 seconds in real time.

Anyway, someone with more authority than I will have to come along and put the issue to rest.

Edited by devSin, 11 April 2005 - 12:28 PM.


#36 NiGHTMARE

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Posted 11 April 2005 - 12:24 PM

From the manual:

A game day (representing 24 hours in the game, dawn to dusk to dawn again) is just over 2 hours long in real time, again about a ten-fold reduction in time in the game. Each time the party rests eight hours passes (the equivalent of about 45 minutes of game time were the game to be left running).


Edited by devSin, 11 April 2005 - 12:42 PM.


#37 devSin

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Posted 11 April 2005 - 12:44 PM

God damn it. Twice in one week. Many apologies for completely destroying your last post. I managed to restore part of it, but I lost the rest.
EDIT: I just requested to have these damn permissions killed, so don't anybody worry about future posts being obliterated by yours truly.

Anyway, the logical reply:

A game day (representing 24 hours in the game, dawn to dusk to dawn again) is just over 2 hours long in real time, again about a ten-fold reduction in time in the game. Each time the party rests eight hours passes (the equivalent of about 45 minutes of game time were the game to be left running).


1 minute = 60 seconds
1 hour = 60 minutes = 60 seconds * 60 seconds = 3600 seconds
2 hours = 120 minutes = 120 minutes * 60 seconds = 7200 seconds

2 hours real time: 7200 seconds
24 hours game time: 7200 seconds

24 hours game time = 7200 real seconds
1 hour game time = 7200 real seconds / 24 game hours = 300 real seconds = 1 game hour

1 hour game time: 300 seconds

Edited by devSin, 11 April 2005 - 12:56 PM.


#38 NiGHTMARE

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Posted 11 April 2005 - 12:56 PM

Remember that it says a game day is just over 2 hours long, not exactly 2 hours long. I'd personally give more import to this part:

A game round in Baldur’s Gate is six seconds long in real time. The round in the AD&D game is sixty seconds, hence time in Baldur’s Gate is compressed about ten-fold when compared to the standard AD&D rule set.


60 seconds game time * 60 (1 hour) = 3600 seconds game time
3600 seconds game time * 24 = 86400 seconds game time
86400 seconds game time / 10 = 8640 seconds real time

8640 seconds real time = 144 minutes = 2 hours 24 minutes real time

8640 (seconds) / 144 (minutes) = 60 seconds real time

Edited by NiGHTMARE, 11 April 2005 - 01:08 PM.


#39 devSin

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Posted 11 April 2005 - 01:04 PM

Obviously, my powerful powers of persuasion have no effect on you.
7200 ONE_DAY
14400 TWO_DAYS
21600 THREE_DAYS
28800 FOUR_DAYS
36000 FIVE_DAYS
43200 SIX_DAYS
50400 SEVEN_DAYS
57600 EIGHT_DAYS
64800 NINE_DAYS
72000 TEN_DAYS
79200 ELEVEN_DAYS
86400 TWELVE_DAYS
93600 THIRTEEN_DAYS
100800 FOURTEEN_DAYS
108000 FIFTEEN_DAYS
216000 THIRTY_DAYS
360000 FIFTY_DAYS
7200 seconds *is* one day in game time. If you don't believe me... believe BioWare.

Oh, and +24 minutes is nowhere near "just over."

Edited by devSin, 11 April 2005 - 01:14 PM.


#40 NiGHTMARE

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Posted 11 April 2005 - 01:14 PM

So in other words, game time in the Infinity Engine is in fact compressed 12-fold and not 10-fold as the manual claims?

EDIT: which means not only is there a distinction between game time and real time, but between game time and pen & paper AD&D time as well! :)

EDIT 2: I think perhaps even some of the Bioware staff who worked on the spells thought that the 10-fold thing applied to game time.

Anyway I'll go through and update the relevant spells (i.e. those which have durations in hours) with the correct durations.

Edited by NiGHTMARE, 11 April 2005 - 01:27 PM.


#41 devSin

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Posted 11 April 2005 - 01:19 PM

It's compressed 12-fold for the purposes of game time.

It's compressed 10-fold (from the AD&D official rules) for the purposes of the personal initiative round. This does not have any direct relation to game time.

Since the voices of authority are silent for now, I found this to corroborate my "factual observations." :)

EDIT 2: I think perhaps even most of the Bioware staff who worked on the spells thought that 6 rather than 5 = 1 round...

A game round is indeed 6 seconds long in real time. You're getting hung up thinking that rounds are somehow relevant to game time. They're not. A round is six seconds long; it will always be six seconds long. A turn is 60 seconds, and 3 rounds is 18 seconds. It wouldn't be any different if 54321 seconds real time was equal to one game day. Only think of rounds as they relate to real time. As I posted, a round is technically 72 seconds game time, but this has no relevance in any fashion. If you wanted an effect to last 72 seconds, you'd enter the real time equivalent, which is 6 seconds. This matches a single game round simply because they happen to have the same real time equivalent; there is no magic synchronization of the two scales.

In short: game round != game time. If you're thinking in rounds, *only* think of real time.

Edited by devSin, 11 April 2005 - 01:29 PM.


#42 NiGHTMARE

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Posted 11 April 2005 - 01:46 PM

It's compressed 12-fold for the purposes of game time.

It's compressed 10-fold (from the AD&D official rules) for the purposes of the personal initiative round. This does not have any direct relation to game time.


So basically, whereas in AD&D 9 hours = 54 turns, in BG2 game time 9 hours = 45 turns - is that correct?

A game round is indeed 6 seconds long in real time. You're getting hung up thinking that rounds are somehow relevant to game time. They're not. A round is six seconds long; it will always be six seconds long.

Yeah I knew that but messed up, obviously I didn't correct it quickly enough - sorry about that :).

Anyway, we have another question: when descriptions list durations in hours, does it refer to game time, or real time?

Edited by NiGHTMARE, 11 April 2005 - 01:51 PM.


#43 Caedwyr

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Posted 11 April 2005 - 01:51 PM

I'd say game time, since the spell is supposed to operate for that duration in that world, and not affect the real world :)

#44 devSin

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Posted 11 April 2005 - 01:51 PM

However, we have another question: when descriptions list durations in hours, does it refer to game time, or real time?

Game time, obviously. 9 hours in real time is a *long* time in-game. Unless BioWare intended that the Armor spell you cast in Irenicus' dungeon finally wear off at the Tree of Life. ;)

EDIT: 9 hours real time is 5 days in-game. You'd be well into Chapter 2 before that Armor spell finally expired.

So basically, whereas in AD&D 9 hours = 54 turns, in BG2 game time 9 hours = 45 turns - is that correct?

The length of time would be equivalent to 45 consecutive game turns, yes.

Edited by devSin, 11 April 2005 - 02:10 PM.


#45 NiGHTMARE

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Posted 11 April 2005 - 02:17 PM

Oops, I meant "does it refer to game time, or 'AD&D time'" (i.e. where 24 hours = 144 turns). Though I guess the answer is still fairly obviously game time :).

Edited by NiGHTMARE, 11 April 2005 - 02:18 PM.




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