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Familiar Evolution BG2SOA/TOB needs some advice

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#1 PureSpirit

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Posted 12 September 2018 - 12:23 AM

Hello again :)

I have been working on a mod for quite some time now. It is called "Familiar Evolution" and will be released for original BG2. I will require a little help and andvice from you guys to complete it. I am almost done. I just need to set up the elemental spells, and it should be A-OK. :) 
Here's a little info:
 

 

What it does

Spoiler

 

 

 

What I need help with

Spoiler

 

 

What I already have

 

Like I said, the basic spells for the familiar are all done. All I need is some tweaks. The list is as follow:

 

GOOD

===============

Spoiler

 

 

NEUTRAL

===============

Spoiler

 

 

EVIL

===============

Spoiler

Edited by PureSpirit, 12 September 2018 - 12:38 AM.


#2 ABlake

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Posted 12 September 2018 - 02:04 AM

By "paralysis" did you mean like some sort of "debuff"? In my experience there are several properties that tend to go along with each element type:

 

- Fire: damage over time, panic

- Cold: slow, or frozen (there could be other effects accompanying slow, such as AC and to hit penalties)

- Acid: damage over time, AC penalty

- Electricity: short duration stun

- Earth: some hold kind of effect, like the Stonehold property that Item Revisions gives the Staff of Earth

- Magic: up to you, I guess. Maybe some sort of magic disruption effect that applies casting failure?

 

The ranged attack for each type of element should be easy enough to do. There are enough projectiles in the game you should be able to find one fitting for each element. Then there's only the matter of damage amount.

 

The key problem here as I see it is what "projectile" to use for the spells. For example, for a single target lightning spell you can simply make use of the lightning bolt. Single target fire spell: fire arrow, or fireball without AoE explosion. Acid: acid arrow, or the "Acid Blob" projectile. Cold: ice arrow, or blue fireball without explosion. Earth: there's nothing that deals "earth" damage in the game, even though it's a legit element. You'll just have to be creative with this one. You could make something like what the Ring of the Ram does, using the "Small Comet" projectile, and dealing crushing damage. Magic: magic missile projectiles - how many projectiles depending on how powerful you intend for the spell to be.

 

Same with the AoE spells. You have to decide what kind of projectiles you want to use. How powerful the spells are is also a factor that could affect this. I mean, if you use the visual effects of Meteor Swarm, you kinda expect the results to be dramatic too. If you're just using the visual effect of a fireball explosion, maybe not so much.

 

One thing that should be really useful to you is how to modify projectiles: color, speed, number of repetitions, and so on. For example, for a cold AoE spell, you can just use the projectile of Code of Cold, which is a cone. Or you can remove the "cone-shaped" flag so that it will become a full-circle explosion, just like what Sunfire does.

 

As for what exactly each spell does, I think you should start simple. Then gradually come up with things that make sense to you. You could look into Item Revisions and Spell Revisions and maybe the rule books too for ideas. Acid Fog, Incendiary Cloud from Spell Revisions, or Prismatic Explosion from Item Revisions (an ability of the Prismatic Chain), for example.


Edited by ABlake, 12 September 2018 - 02:05 AM.


#3 Arthas

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Posted 12 September 2018 - 02:24 AM

This seems great. But:
 

1) Are you sure feeding them is the right idea? Why not go for xp to make them grow?
2) Will the game acknowledge the familiar, so if he kills someone you get the xp ?
3) Will he occupy the slot of a party npc?


Edited by Arthas, 12 September 2018 - 02:24 AM.


#4 PureSpirit

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Posted 12 September 2018 - 03:22 AM

This seems great. But:
 

1) Are you sure feeding them is the right idea? Why not go for xp to make them grow?
2) Will the game acknowledge the familiar, so if he kills someone you get the xp ?
3) Will he occupy the slot of a party npc?

 

1.) I'm not sure how to implement xp into this. I am no coder. :D I do like the idea of feeding them too. You learn the "feeding" through a book. And you could feed them 3 times per day. I actually prefer the feeding to level up in combat, because in the end, it's all about you caring about your familiar, and making a bond, seeing them grow into an awesome elemental, etc.

#2 and #3 - No. The familiar is the standard familiar cast with the "Familiar" level 1 spell. I am however wondering whether the skills obtained by the familiar through SoA will be transfered to ToB once the player is done with SoA and goes for the expansion. It is unknown to me at this point.


Edited by PureSpirit, 12 September 2018 - 03:26 AM.


#5 Arthas

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Posted 12 September 2018 - 04:30 AM

Ask Argent77 for help. He is a great and really insightful guy.



#6 ABlake

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Posted 12 September 2018 - 04:47 AM

I am however wondering whether the skills obtained by the familiar through SoA will be transfered to ToB once the player is done with SoA and goes for the expansion. It is unknown to me at this point.

 

 

As far as I can tell, yes, if you have a familiar in SoA, when you're in ToB the game will detect that and move the familiar to your main character. You can verify that by checking BALDUR25.BCS.



#7 PureSpirit

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Posted 12 September 2018 - 12:51 PM

By "paralysis" did you mean like some sort of "debuff"? In my experience there are several properties that tend to go along with each element type:

 

- Fire: damage over time, panic

- Cold: slow, or frozen (there could be other effects accompanying slow, such as AC and to hit penalties)

- Acid: damage over time, AC penalty

- Electricity: short duration stun

- Earth: some hold kind of effect, like the Stonehold property that Item Revisions gives the Staff of Earth

- Magic: up to you, I guess. Maybe some sort of magic disruption effect that applies casting failure?

 

The ranged attack for each type of element should be easy enough to do. There are enough projectiles in the game you should be able to find one fitting for each element. Then there's only the matter of damage amount.

 

The key problem here as I see it is what "projectile" to use for the spells. For example, for a single target lightning spell you can simply make use of the lightning bolt. Single target fire spell: fire arrow, or fireball without AoE explosion. Acid: acid arrow, or the "Acid Blob" projectile. Cold: ice arrow, or blue fireball without explosion. Earth: there's nothing that deals "earth" damage in the game, even though it's a legit element. You'll just have to be creative with this one. You could make something like what the Ring of the Ram does, using the "Small Comet" projectile, and dealing crushing damage. Magic: magic missile projectiles - how many projectiles depending on how powerful you intend for the spell to be.

 

Same with the AoE spells. You have to decide what kind of projectiles you want to use. How powerful the spells are is also a factor that could affect this. I mean, if you use the visual effects of Meteor Swarm, you kinda expect the results to be dramatic too. If you're just using the visual effect of a fireball explosion, maybe not so much.

 

One thing that should be really useful to you is how to modify projectiles: color, speed, number of repetitions, and so on. For example, for a cold AoE spell, you can just use the projectile of Code of Cold, which is a cone. Or you can remove the "cone-shaped" flag so that it will become a full-circle explosion, just like what Sunfire does.

 

As for what exactly each spell does, I think you should start simple. Then gradually come up with things that make sense to you. You could look into Item Revisions and Spell Revisions and maybe the rule books too for ideas. Acid Fog, Incendiary Cloud from Spell Revisions, or Prismatic Explosion from Item Revisions (an ability of the Prismatic Chain), for example.

Yes friend. I did intend some debuffs. And that list is similar to what I had in mind. I've been thinking to add "Hold" or "Pause Target" on the ice section though. But I could add slow as area effect, and frozen solid on single target spell. And do something similar to the others spells too.

 

Ahhh yes. Do you know per chance what number in the list the "acid blob" and "blue fireball" projectiles have in the list?

I sincierly thank you for the input. I'll take this to Heart. Though, I have never edited projectiles myself. Is it possible to create new ones by editing existing ones? And if so, how could I do that? This would sincierly help me making some more unique spells. I really really REALLY like the Cone of Cold idea you mentioned. I want to do that for sure. It would be awesome looking indeed.

Prismatic Explosion? Never heard of that one I'm afraid. What spell is that? :) 

I appriciate your input.
 

 



#8 PureSpirit

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Posted 12 September 2018 - 12:55 PM

Ask Argent77 for help. He is a great and really insightful guy.

 

Allright friend. :) I will do so tomorrow. Thank you.



#9 PureSpirit

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Posted 12 September 2018 - 12:56 PM

 

 

I am however wondering whether the skills obtained by the familiar through SoA will be transfered to ToB once the player is done with SoA and goes for the expansion. It is unknown to me at this point.

 

 

As far as I can tell, yes, if you have a familiar in SoA, when you're in ToB the game will detect that and move the familiar to your main character. You can verify that by checking BALDUR25.BCS.

 

 

Hmm... BCS stuff, I am not familiar with those things. (No pun intended. xD Intentionally that is)  I will check it out. If it is true that the familiar keeps the innate abilities and properties gained during SoA events with this mod, then it's excellent. 



#10 lynx

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Posted 13 September 2018 - 11:33 AM

The transition to tob upgrades all familiars. You'll have to change those files as well. Those being the first 6 chars of the CRE + "25".


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