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What would you want to talk to Sand about?


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#1 berelinde

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Posted 04 November 2009 - 12:07 PM

As I'm sure everybody knows, Domi is going to be coding up Neeshka's romance soon. And I know there are few folks out there who wouldn't mind getting to know Sand a little better. I've said I won't start on Sand's romance until after BG2 Gavin is out, and I'm sticking to that, but I was thinking about putting together some flirts for Sand so that Sand will be flirt-with-able at about the same time Neeshka is fully romanceable.

So here are the ground rules:
1 Romance will be available to male or female protagonists. No, it won't be *entirely* the same for both genders.
2 This is going to be a "slow simmer" romance, in the sense that the protagonist isn't going to have declarations before the other love interests start to show more... er... interest.
3 (Which perhaps I should have stated first) No changes to the plot of the game. The other romances will operate independant of Sand's, just like Casavir's operates independantly of Bishop's and Neeshka's operates independantly of Elanee's. You won't be able to get out of having Casavir make a fool of himself just because you think Sand is hot, or Elanee, for that matter.
4 No influence adjustments during the romance.

So, with that in mind, is there anything you want to talk to Sand about? What would you like to do to him? What would you like him to do to you?

Please keep in mind that dialogue files can only be so big before the Toolset refuses to deal with them any more. Casavir's dialogue file is somewhere close to 27K words, and I can't even correct a typo in it without crashing the toolset. That means that I'm not going to be able to accommodate every suggestion, but a good volume of suggestions will make sure I can include the best.

Edited by berelinde, 05 November 2009 - 08:47 AM.

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#2 berelinde

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Posted 04 November 2009 - 03:21 PM

Here are some of the things I've thought of already. I find it best to start out with the early stuff, while the NPC and the PC are still getting to know one another, before moving on to the more advanced stages.

Just a few very early suggestions:

(Act 1, dropping in to see him in his shop) Ask him out for a drink. He'll refuse, but a charismatic and intelligent PC can coax him into sharing a bottle s/he brought. Or s/he can tempt him with alternatives ranging from a game of chess to something more risque.

(Act 1, dropping in to see him in his shop) Ask his opinion about whether the Watch or the Thieves are a better option.

(Act 2, before the trial) Ask him to testify...

I know you folks can do better than that...
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#3 DeathAngel

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Posted 05 November 2009 - 10:16 AM

I think it would be funny to put in some kind of flirt that just disrupts his always calm demeanor. something that will make him all flustered and tongue tied. like just randomly going up to him and smacking his behind. That would be funny. :blush:
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#4 berelinde

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Posted 05 November 2009 - 10:36 AM

I can definitely see some possibilities with that one! Thanks!

That's what I was looking for: actions the PC can take and allow Sand to respond to. After writing flirts for several different NPCs, I'm really, really grateful for suggestions.
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#5 Domi

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Posted 05 November 2009 - 02:20 PM

I remember the early flirt I had for him that was an attempt to chat with him in the shop about the protrait on the wall in his shop, asking if it was his relative or Sand before he got all scruffy.

Another one was with PC just leaning over the counter and looking up at him.

Asking him if he can cook up a love potion and then telling him it was for one of the party members (lovely reaction if you said it was for the dwarf).

If I remember more of the bickering I was throwing together for them, I'd post it, but that's what jumps to mind off hand.

His obsession with Torio would definetly garner my PC's poisonous comments, and his feeble hackling of the bard.
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#6 berelinde

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Posted 05 November 2009 - 02:52 PM

Priceless, Domi! Thanks!

I really like the one about cooking up the love potion, but I'll blatantly steal gratefully consider anthing you can cook up.

The chess game and the wine drinking have turned out well, I think.

And yes, I imagine that if ever there was a character that would enjoy reparte, it would be Sand.
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#7 Guest_Guest_Star Dragonmaiden_*_*

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Posted 21 November 2009 - 02:45 PM

My favorite out of all the PCs that I've made so far was always my female Moon Elf sorcerer, Fade. It'd be interesting for her to explore his dislike of 'naturals' a little more, especially since she's the complete opposite of Qara (polite, respectful of elders/wizards, well-read, etc.). Would he consider the possibility that not all sorcerers are like Qara? Not that Qara isn't interesting, but she acts too much like a spoiled brat for me to want her along (I put up with enough spoiled brats in real life, thank you).

If the PC is also a wizard, a discussion about specialist vs. generalist might be interesting (or boring...I just wonder why someone would want to restrict the amount of spells they can learn).

These are more extra discussions that could flesh out his character more than anything.

#8 berelinde

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Posted 21 November 2009 - 06:19 PM

Yeah, I can definitely see how it would be interesting to try to convince him that not all sorcerer's are like Qara. Honestly, I doubt he resents sorcerers in general as much as he dislikes her recklessness, disdain of discipline, and knee-jerk disrespect of anyone in authority.

And yeah, the specialist/generalist discussion might work.

Don't get me wrong. I'm definitely interested in friendship talk material as much as flirts.
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#9 berelinde

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Posted 21 November 2009 - 06:19 PM

Yeah, I can definitely see how it would be interesting to try to convince him that not all sorcerer's are like Qara. Honestly, I doubt he resents sorcerers in general as much as he dislikes her recklessness, disdain of discipline, and knee-jerk disrespect of anyone in authority.

And yeah, the specialist/generalist discussion might work.

Don't get me wrong. I'm definitely interested in friendship talk material as much as flirts.
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#10 Guest_Guest_Star Dragonmaiden_*_*

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Posted 22 November 2009 - 07:31 AM

His height! I always thought it was funny that he was short even by elven standards. *puppy eyes* Can we tease him? It's what friends (and potential lovers :thumbsup: ) do best!

#11 berelinde

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Posted 22 November 2009 - 09:11 AM

Teasing him would be fun, and it's a great idea. I'm guessing that he'll react well to light-hearted teasing with a compliment burried in it somewhere, but badly to the variety that's genuinely insulting or outright malicious.

He'd probably also enjoy the opportunity to snark at his companions...

But one thing to keep in mind is that saving face is important to Sand. If you make him look foolish, especially in front of other people, he's not going to like it.
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#12 Spidercat

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Posted 29 November 2009 - 02:44 PM

If you make him look foolish, especially in front of other people, he's not going to like it.

You'd be most definitely in for a "hatepack" :thumbsup:



Something I'd really like to see is some interaction with Jaral. Who wouldn't try to get close to a wizard by showing interest in his familiar? I can also imagine some hilarious moments if Sands possesses his familiar while you are cuddling ;)

When you discover you have a shard in your chest, you could tease Sand saying you've got "magic in your heart" much the same way you can tell Bishop you have a shard in place of a heart.

When the luskan wants to meet you + Zjhaeve + Qara and not Sand, tell him it's weird indeed but given that he's got a past with them luskans you would have been worried about their intentions if they'd wanted him instead. As much as you like to have him around, in this instance you're glad he's staying safe at CK.

Ask for his advice of course, but also state that you do care what he thinks when someone else tells him no one cares (I remember this happening at least once with Shandra)

Steal the glowstone and decide to offer it to him instead of the dryad - he does manifest interest for the stone when you first talk about it with the goblins.

When you get the innocent verdict, after all the tension it would only be natural that you jump into his arms.

Some random reply you could put somewhere - or not. "Do not meddle in the affairs of wizards, for they are subtle and quick to banter."



*yawns* going to bed now... thank you for making our Sand "flirtable" :D

Edited by Spidercat, 29 November 2009 - 03:18 PM.


#13 berelinde

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Posted 29 November 2009 - 07:13 PM

Something I'd really like to see is some interaction with Jaral. Who wouldn't try to get close to a wizard by showing interest in his familiar? I can also imagine some hilarious moments if Sands possesses his familiar while you are cuddling :thumbsup:

I'd have to think about how he'd handle that one. Would he view it as manipulative? Insincere? Or would he think it cheeky to be making so familiar with his... er... familiar? Or would he view the KC's interest in Jaral as one of his/her few redeeming personality traits? Guess that would depend on his overall opinion of the KC.

When you discover you have a shard in your chest, you could tease Sand saying you've got "magic in your heart" much the same way you can tell Bishop you have a shard in place of a heart.

Dunno about that one. Don't like getting that close to something that was done with another character. But maybe the KC could tease him that he was never able to sense it. Maybe he just needed a closer look...

When the luskan wants to meet you + Zjhaeve + Qara and not Sand, tell him it's weird indeed but given that he's got a past with them luskans you would have been worried about their intentions if they'd wanted him instead. As much as you like to have him around, in this instance you're glad he's staying safe at CK.

Good stuff. Will keep it in mind for later.

Ask for his advice of course, but also state that you do care what he thinks when someone else tells him no one cares (I remember this happening at least once with Shandra)

I'll see what I can find.

Steal the glowstone and decide to offer it to him instead of the dryad - he does manifest interest for the stone when you first talk about it with the goblins.

Now we're getting into plot changes. I'd have to think long and hard about that one.

When you get the innocent verdict, after all the tension it would only be natural that you jump into his arms.

I'm imagining Sand's legs sticking out from under my really tall, really stocky male cleric and having giggle fits.

Some random reply you could put somewhere - or not. "Do not meddle in the affairs of wizards, for they are subtle and quick to banter."

Clever alteration of an overused line, but the ghost of JRR Tolkien would hunt me to the ends of the earth...

I haven't been working on the flirt pack too much lately, mostly because I've been distracted by the new shiny that is Dragon Age, but I'll get back to it soon. Flirts don't take nearly as long as a full romance.
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#14 Spidercat

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Posted 28 December 2009 - 06:11 AM

When you discover you have a shard in your chest, you could tease Sand saying you've got "magic in your heart" much the same way you can tell Bishop you have a shard in place of a heart.

Dunno about that one. Don't like getting that close to something that was done with another character. But maybe the KC could tease him that he was never able to sense it. Maybe he just needed a closer look...


I've got some more. When you first meet Sand and you ask him "How could you not see the magic in those shards? I can tell by just holding them." he replies "There could be something about you that causes them to resonate." So you could compliment him on his insight instead (and invite him to have a closer look, oh yeah!!).

Now of course, it would mean implementing a variable to check if that part of the dialog did actually occur. Not sure you want to play with those when they would be linked to the official dialogs.


I'm replaying the OC so I'll be watchful for anything that might be useful :)

Edited by Spidercat, 28 December 2009 - 07:05 AM.


#15 berelinde

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Posted 28 December 2009 - 07:41 AM

We're doing subtle things to the OC dialogue all over the place, and at times, introducing complete new branches, so I don't know If I'd say it was impossible, but like you said, it is an area where we need to keep a light hand with the changes. I'll look at the dialogue. If it looks like something that can be added unobtrusively, it might happen. The big danger there is that dialogue is already plenty big. I could add it as an Act 1 flirt, maybe. When Sand is still in his shop, the PC can go in and tease him a bit. If I'm not mistaken, even in his unmodified dialogue, you can ask him if he's found out any more about the shard. That would be a better place to add a branch to the effect of "No, but now that you mention it, there does seem to be something odd about you. Perhaps it is only that you have carried the shard among your possessions for so long. Even subtle magics can leave their imprint." At which point, s/he can invite closer examination.

The only thing I'd be afraid of here would be giving the game away too soon. I don't know about you, but I really hate it when NPCs spoil plot events that are meant to happen later. If I've played the game before and know what's in store, I'm always thinking "Well, aren't you special, with your +6 eyeballs of foreshadowing," and I'm thinking it in a pretty sarcastic way, I'm sorry to say.

No, perhaps it would be better to leave that as an after-the-fact dialogue. One posibility:

Sand: It's odd that you had no inkling you were carrying another shard within you.
PC: Maybe, but you'd think that you might have noticed it, sensitive as you are.
Sand: Now that I know what to look for, I do detect a subtle difference about you, but I always attributed it to some kind of personal aura. It's hard to localize, though.
PC Maybe you just need a closer look.
Sand: (some witty comeback, with PC responses)
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