IR v3 Feedback

[kreso]

Restoration uses "restoration" opcode. I'd rather not use CLONE here - example why - KR Undead Hunter can use Lay on Hands to bring back missing levels. Why would he "cure" Ray of Enfeeblement effect with it? Likewise, why would some mod-added spell; be it innate/mage/whatever cure RoE if it's meant to bring back nothing more than missing levels?

There are uses for CLONE in sec types (Slow is a wonderful example since so many weapons/spells use it somewhere that mass patching to remove Haste with exact probabilities would be great), but this isn't one of them.

[Kliwer]

Hello,

I haven’t played with this great modification from some time however I just read the index and have a bunch of suggestions.

 

1.

Eagle Bow +2
Combat Abilities:
Entangle: 50% chance target must save vs. breath or be entangled for 2 rounds
THAC0: +2 bonus
Damage: +2 bonus

 

 

Far too overpower. It is BG1 item, really easy to obtain. It should grant a bonus to saving throw (+2 or even +4). Compare it to The Sleeper +2 (vanilla game) which is BG2 item- not very strong but pretty useful in the beginning.

 

2.

Heartseeker +3
Combat Abilities:
Seeking: additional +3 to attack rolls
Heartseeking: 10% chance target must save vs. death or die
THAC0: +3 bonus
Damage: +5 bonus
Requires: 16 Strength

 

 

Too easy obtained for an almost vorpal weapon.

 

3.

Boomerang Dagger +2
Combat Abilities:
Crippling: 20% chance to reduce target's movement rate by half
Returning: returns to the wielder's hand instantly after an attack is made
THAC0: +2 bonus
Damage: 1D4 + 2

Notes: the crippling effect should be very useful on a ranged weapon, though it may be necessary to add something more to this weapon considering how late you can acquire it.

 

 

You can acquire it almost at the beginning (by stealing or casting Limited Wish from a scroll). One of many examples where Author is trying to change something without any reason. It’s a bit weird when our party have enormous bunch of special abilities at their disposal.

 

4.

Dagger of the Star +5
Combat Abilities:
Stardust: 20% chance of blinding every opponent within 5 feet for 4 rounds (save vs. breath at -4 neg.)
Starmetal: inflicts 5 additional points of damage against extraplanar creatures
Starbolt: 15% chance to deal additional 4D4 magical damage
Returning: returns to the wielder's hand instantly after an attack is made
THAC0: +5 bonus
Damage: 1D4 + 5

Notes: vanilla 15% chance to deal 1d8 fire/electrical dmg has been replaced by the Starbolt abilty (which also uses a cool animation when triggered). I've also made this dagger thrownable.

 

 

Making it thrownable conflicts a bit with BG2 Fix Pack component: Optional But Cool: Mixed-Use Dagger Fixes- it will be impossible to use it in close combat. As BG2 Fix Pack is a rudimentary mod for everyone I advise to erase this feature.

 

5.

Defender of Easthaven +2
Equipped Abilities:
Armor Class: +1 bonus
Maximum Hit Points: +10 bonus
Combat Abilities:
Cleave: 20% chance on hit to gain 1 additional attack in the following round
THAC0: +2 bonus
Damage: 2D4 + 2

Notes: it now has a nice background that perfectly suits its current abilities. I've reduced enchantment level by one to allow it to be found in SoA chapters without being overpowered.

I had to replace 10% physical resistance with +10HP for balance purposes (the 100%+ res issue is a pain to handle), and the lore I assigned it suggested me to add an on hit ability, Cleave, which was really needed imo, as I don't like a flail to look like an off-hand weapon!

 

 

 

I am against so serious changes to the such characteristic weapon. It had its place in the game (especially for barbarian) and now it is just generic flail +2 with some boring abilities and no combo potential.

 

6.

Flail of Ages +3/5

 

Nerfing it slightly is ok but too great randomness in effects is not so good. It’s impossible to plan anything with this weapon. Authors of TDD made a similar mistake (tons of random effects on spells and items).

 

7.

Cleave: with each succesful hit there's a 33% chance of gaining one extra attack in the next round

Cleave: 20% chance on hit to gain 1 additional attack in the following round

 

I can’t see any reason to add such ability. Weapon could have no bonus to attacks, +1/2 or +1 and this is enough. There is no point in making it more complicated.

 

8.

Blade of Roses +1
Equipped Abilities:
Charisma: +1 bonus
Combat Abilities:
Singing Sword: when swung in battle the blade sings, granting +1 bonus to attack and damage rolls, and +1 bonus to saves vs. spell to wielder and allies within 20 feet
THAC0: +1 bonus
Damage: 1D8 + 1

Notes: enchantment level lowered by 2 and charisma bonus by 1 (too easily exploitable to lower store's prices), but overall it should still be very powerful. I need suggestions about the singing sword ability in particular.

 

 

+1 weapons are pretty useless even in the middle of the game. It should be at least +2.

 

9.

The Equalizer +4

 

One of the best changes! Thanks.

 

10.

Sword of Flame +1

[…]

should we add it to BG1?

 

I think it is good idea. However it should be add at rather late stage (Candlekeep catacombs or something like that, some shop in Baldur’s Gate [for a really high price]).

 

11.

Water's Edge +3
Combat Abilities:
Fierce Wounds: target must save vs. death or suffer -1 penalty to STR and DEX
THAC0: +3 bonus
Damage: 1D8 + 3

Notes: another "new" entry, because it previously was a unique but plain scimitar +3. I'm not 100% satisfied with it (if anyone has a better suggestion let me know) but at least it now has a quite cool pirate based background.

 

 

3-5% chance to summon lesser water elemental? (I am, in general, against % chances but… oh well).

 

12.

(should I auto-include "disable Malchor Harpell" tweak within IR?)

 

No. Just no.

 

13.

As all +6 vanilla weapons it has been "limited" to +5 enchantment lvl.

 

(weapons with +6 enchantment bypass vanilla's Absolute Immunity, which made no sense imo)

 

Again- I see no reason to remove +6 enchantments in ToB. Ignoring Absolute Immunity is appropriate feature, especially for solo fighters/fellowships without wizard.

 

14.

Sword of Chaos +2

 

 

It will be GREAT to restore this weapons former glory in hands of Sarevok (in ToB). Some dialogue lines should be added.

 

15.

Lilarcor +3

 

 

DO--NOT--TOUCH--IT!

 

16.

Carsomyr +4

[…]

Enchantment level is reduced by 1: this is "necessary" in order to differentiate it from the upgraded version, and it also helps reducing the sword's power a little bit more. Even with all these "nerfs" this weapon is still one of the best in the game.

 

 

It is unnecessary nerf. It’s almost a crime. Carsomyr should be an ultimate weapon due to its story and localization.

 

17.

Crom Faeyr +4

 

This weapon is completely ruined. It should be a powerful close combat hammer but now it deals damage like a dagger…

 

18.

keep in mind that within IR you don't get the huge 50% discount from having a high reputation

 

 

Is it an optional component? Because it should be. Much better solution for me is:

-reduce prices also for law reputation;

-global price changes (Aurora mod).

 

19.

Potions

 

 

Reducing prices of anything in BG(2) is a terribly bad idea. There are tons of money, even without quest mods.

 

 

 

And some general remarks.

 

1. Author takes much care about original PnP rules. In my opinion it is unnecessary approach. AD&D is balanced pretty badly (and D&D 3 is total crap in every point), moreover its features are not designed for a video game. It’s better to take it easy. It’s not the Bible. Even for game masters.

 

2. Author made a great job, really. However the mod changes almost every item in the game, sometimes remolding even the nature of items. For me it is the main reason for not using it in most installations. I have especially bad memories with Gauntlets of Weapon Expertise (BG1, Firewine Bridge): its nice passive enchantment to THAC0 and damage has been changed for some crappy activating ability with annoying disadvantages (“power attack” or something like that). I do not like this way of changes. It is also unnecessary to give an unique ability to every single item in the game. It's a bit messy.

 

3. Balancing items by disadvantages is, in my opinion, generally bad idea. In my gameplay practice I almost never use such items, except for some specific situations. It’s especially painful when you find annoying drawbacks in bellowed artifacts as Crom Faeyr.

 

4.On the other hand- it will be nice to greatly improve some of cursed items. It is the place to play the advantage/disadvantage game. IR made a step to implement this method however it is not enough- cursed items are still useless.

 

5. As I sad above- too many random effects.

 

6. I think it will be great to improve one-handed weapon style. The best solution will be to add third * in this weapon style (+2 to crits, +3 to AC) but it is not a problem for this topic. Is it possible to make +1 attack weapons (Belm etc.) unusable with shield/second weapon? In this case it will be appropriate to rise their enchantment and even add some extra abilities.

 

7. I'm wandering about backstabbing system. Those in IR is generally better than in vanilla but… something is lacking. I have small idea (I do not know is it possible to impellent):

 

-Daggers: all daggers +1 to backstabbing;

-Short swords/ninja-to: normal backstabbing;

-Clubs: -1 to backstabbing but chance to stun enemy during attacks from shadows.

 

8. Author tends to remove most of the +3/+4/+5 weapons from the first half of BG2. Maybe it’s unnecessary? In current state of the mod enchantment progression of weapons is far more plain that in vanilla. It’s similar to NWN1-2 (BTW the most stinky piece of shit in all cRPG genre) where we have straight progression of weapons of any type. In BG2 you could find powerful Lilarcor fairy easy and no good bastard sword till Underdark. And it’s funny and realistic! Why all companions should have the equipment of equal power all the time? There is no reason IMO.

 

9. I do not like the standardization of most effects (like “bane” feature). In vanilla one weapons have +x against some creatures, others have double damage effect etc. It is much more various.

 

 

For me the mod is not as good as Spell Revision (which is much better placed in the original game and better balanced) but still it is a great job. Good luck with development.

 

Greetings and salutations,

 

K.

 

P.S.: Sorry for lame English.

[kreso]

That's feedback if I've ever seen one!

To chip in:

 

Eagle Bow - you get it late in BG1, I don't see it being OP since it's a save w/o penalty. Entangled creatures may still attack - it's a single-target version of level 1 spell.

 

Heartseeker - agreed. I don't know if Demi already reduced the chance to 5%, maybe he did but description is wrong.

 

Boomerang dagger - I don't ever aquire this weapon, neither do I like throwing daggers for some reason. Imo, it's fine considering characters using it (mages & thieves/bards) have low apr rate. 20% reduction in movement isn't gamebreaking neither does it work on many creatures.

 

Dagger of the Star - you shouldn't install that Fixpack component then, I guess. Fixpack may (or may not) be "core" but "optional but cool" components are definitely "not core". A Readme note should be added.

 

Easthaven - agreed, it's junk. While I agree with Demi that resistance bonus on this is apsurd (not only barbarians benefit greatly from this, f/c & paladins benefit even more) it's something that comes late and it's not worth the money.

 

Ages - most powerful 1-handed weapon in the game (on par with Foebane), I don't see anything wrong with it.

 

Roses - agreed, it should be +2 at least

 

Sword of Flame - there is already a flaming sword in BG1 (Durlag's Tower).

 

Water's Edge - I don't know. I once played some crazy megamod install where Slaver's ship was filled with goons wielding this very weapon.

 

Weapon enchantment max +5 - this I don't see ever changing, sorry. Apsolute immunity should really be *apsolute*.

 

Carsomyr - I think it's fine as it is, it's vanilla version is horribly OP (no save dispel with 100% chance + 50%MR). It's a highly damaging weapon.

 

Crom - agreed, it's not worth forging it.

 

Prices - IR is tweakable, but if you use "store revisions" (mod is balanced around the fact you do) there really isn't much money. You can forget about buying whatever you want - you'll need to plan ahead what to buy and sell. I think this is one of the best mod features actually.

 

some other stuff - daggers backstab bonus - agreed, but there's an issue with this. If you dual-wield daggers with +1 bacsktab bonus, you'll get +2. And even worse, you could put a dagger in your off-hand to benefit from your main-hand katana or whatever. Hope you see the problem....

 

 

Anyhow, great post, ty.

[Fiann of the Silver Hand]

Isn't Eagle Bow at the Bandit Camp? That's more like the middle of the game, and certainly not late.

 

I think the earlier versions of IR (try v2) had less dramatic changes. If they're still hosted somewhere, you might want to check it out.

[kreso]

Isn't Eagle Bow at the Bandit Camp? That's more like the middle of the game, and certainly not late.

 

I think the earlier versions of IR (try v2) had less dramatic changes. If they're still hosted somewhere, you might want to check it out.

No, Eagle Bow (the one with entangle on hit, maybe it's name is different) is in BG city - Marek with the poison quest has it.

You need gain entrance to the city to get it. "Store Revisions" doesn't change the location of any item in BG1.

[Fiann of the Silver Hand]

You're right. I always mix up that and the Long Bow of Marksmanship.

[Demivrgvs]

@kliwer wow, that's a lot of feedback thanks. I'll try to find the time for a proper answer asap, but Kreso already said most of it.

[Galwail]

Hi, I love this mod, but now I got to ToB and I am mad

I got the Erinne Sling but it requires a Ring of Energy for upgrade. As far as I know, the ring can only be bought in SoA, but at that point, you have no way of knowing you will need it ToB. Would it be possible to add that ring to some ToB merchant? I think I will just clua it in this play-through.

[Fruits of the sea]

A request and a little feedback after playing some way through Baldur's Gate with IR and SCS:

 

I'm very happy with most of the changes, except for one thing, the consummables and charge items. I understand a lot of them were overpowered, but removing the abilities instead of nerfing them also removes the "cool" factor. A fireball in a potion bottle is just... fun. A fire bonus to melee damage, less so. Or for another example, the potion of absorbtion was incredibly situational, but amazing if used at the right times. The update to a 10% damage reduction doesn't make a noticeable difference, nor does it involve any strategy on the player's part. I noticed the shield amulet and necklace of missiles have also been changed to passive buffs.

 

I propose that rather than strip their abilities, they could be made more situational or weaker. Passive buffs are helpful, but the majority of the game's magical equipment already serves that need. Those consummables are fun to use!! Or if that's too much work, a component that installs all the item revisions excluding consummables.

 

For positive feedback, I love how critical hits being a thing interacts with the revised armours. It really opens up options for gearing in a whole new way.

[kreso]

A fireball in a potion bottle is just... fun.

You still got those available.

[Fruits of the sea]

 

A fireball in a potion bottle is just... fun.

You still got those available.

 

The oil of fiery burning now adds 1d6 fire damage on hit with weapons. It used to be a fireball.

[kreso]

 

 

A fireball in a potion bottle is just... fun.

You still got those available.

 

The oil of fiery burning now adds 1d6 fire damage on hit with weapons. It used to be a fireball.

 

You've got that exploding potion as well; I can't remember it's name. In vanilla game, they used to work pretty much the same.

[Jarno Mikkola]

Potions of Fire Breath and Potion of Explosion.

[Fruits of the sea]

Yes, I discovered later on that there are two potions of explosion. So that change makes a lot of sense, it's redundant to have two potions that do the same thing. I'm still disappointed with the changes to a number of other items that had their abilities or charges replaced with passive buffs. Still, pleased with the mod overall, now on to BG2!

[Bartimaeus]

I propose that rather than strip their abilities, they could be made more situational or weaker. Passive buffs are helpful, but the majority of the game's magical equipment already serves that need. Those consummables are fun to use!! Or if that's too much work, a component that installs all the item revisions excluding consummables.

 

I'm a little late, but you can pretty much do this yourself by going to item_rev\components\main\, opening up items.2da, and deleting all the potions at the bottom. When installing, it will no longer overwrite those items or abilities. Note that you have to do this before installation.