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A few questions about this mod


Eleneithel

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Hi there!

I was wondering, is this mod still in active developpment? I am quite interested by it and would like to know if it is worth waiting for it...^^

I guess spellcasters classes like sorcerer and wizards are included in the scope of the mod?

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Hi, Eleneithel. The mod is still in development but Demivrgvs, the primary author, has not been actively updating it for a few months. He tends to have amazingly productive spurts that give way to long-ish periods of dormancy. He is like a modding volcano. I will say that the beta-released warrior classes are completely playable and enjoyable right now, so you can give those a go if you want. I highly recommend them.

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I'll add this here, case I like to hijack threads... nope, but because the other threads have a specific topic and this seemed the most aligned to mine: A question. And the original topic should be dealt with, so then the eventual thread hijack is not that evil ...
I know the mod is still in a beta, but could you Demivrgvs make a (~readme) topic that has all the different currently IMPlemented changes the kit revision has under it in component topic-ed includes ? And then make a topic to discuss about it/them.

Why I asked this, well I wanted to make an observation of todays trends in tabletop gaming, one that is actually easy to accomplish in the EE games if you wish with mod like this. And that is that people today don't start at level 1 anymore, but at level 3 partly because the low hit dice would just get every one killed in one hit, and partly because the GM can then give more variety to the encounters.
Yeah. What this would means in the BG1(EE/BGT/EET) is that the player is given a small start boost, mainly to HPs at level 2, because the horrible implementation in pre-EE games throws not a wrench, but the cauldron and the kettles too at the start that makes it impossible to give a +20 HPs. But that can be done at level 2.
So a good way of settling this in BG1 is to allow the player gain the first level quickly, even if you don't give the 20 HPs. But it should be done super fast, and set the rule system according to that. Xplevel.2da, set up to be alike the KR, but different:

2DA V1.0

-1
                1           2       3           4            5           6           7           8           9          10          11          12          13          14          15          16          17          18          19          20         21         22          23        24         25         26         27         28         29         30         31         32         33         34         35         36         37        38         39         40         41         42         43           44           45           46           47           48           49           50           51  
MAGE             0           10      5000        10000        20000       40000       75000       143000      243000      400000      600000      880000      1160000     1440000     1720000     2000000     2280000     2560000     2840000     3120000     3200000   3520000     3840000   4160000    4480000    4800000    5120000    5440000    5760000    6080000    6400000    6720000    7040000    7360000    7680000    8000000    8320000    8640000   8960000    9280000    9600000    9920000    10240000     10560000     10880000     11200000     11520000     11840000     12160000     12480000     -1
FIGHTER          0           10      5000        10000        20000       40000       75000       143000      243000      400000      600000      880000      1160000     1440000     1720000     2000000     2280000     2560000     2840000     3120000     3200000   3520000     3840000   4160000    4480000    4800000    5120000    5440000    5760000    6080000    6400000    6720000    7040000    7360000    7680000    8000000    8320000    8640000   8960000    9280000    9600000    9920000    10240000     10560000     10880000     11200000     11520000     11840000     12160000     12480000     -1
PALADIN          0           10      5000        10000        20000       40000       75000       143000      243000      400000      600000      880000      1160000     1440000     1720000     2000000     2280000     2560000     2840000     3120000     3200000   3520000     3840000   4160000    4480000    4800000    5120000    5440000    5760000    6080000    6400000    6720000    7040000    7360000    7680000    8000000    8320000    8640000   8960000    9280000    9600000    9920000    10240000     10560000     10880000     11200000     11520000     11840000     12160000     12480000     -1
RANGER           0           10      5000        10000        20000       40000       75000       143000      243000      400000      600000      880000      1160000     1440000     1720000     2000000     2280000     2560000     2840000     3120000     3200000   3520000     3840000   4160000    4480000    4800000    5120000    5440000    5760000    6080000    6400000    6720000    7040000    7360000    7680000    8000000    8320000    8640000   8960000    9280000    9600000    9920000    10240000     10560000     10880000     11200000     11520000     11840000     12160000     12480000     -1
CLERIC           0           10      5000        10000        20000       40000       75000       143000      243000      400000      600000      880000      1160000     1440000     1720000     2000000     2280000     2560000     2840000     3120000     3200000   3520000     3840000   4160000    4480000    4800000    5120000    5440000    5760000    6080000    6400000    6720000    7040000    7360000    7680000    8000000    8320000    8640000   8960000    9280000    9600000    9920000    10240000     10560000     10880000     11200000     11520000     11840000     12160000     12480000     -1
DRUID            0           10      5000        10000        20000       40000       75000       143000      243000      400000      600000      880000      1160000     1440000     1720000     2000000     2280000     2560000     2840000     3120000     3200000   3520000     3840000   4160000    4480000    4800000    5120000    5440000    5760000    6080000    6400000    6720000    7040000    7360000    7680000    8000000    8320000    8640000   8960000    9280000    9600000    9920000    10240000     10560000     10880000     11200000     11520000     11840000     12160000     12480000     -1
THIEF            0           10      5000        10000        20000       40000       75000       143000      243000      400000      600000      880000      1160000     1440000     1720000     2000000     2280000     2560000     2840000     3120000     3200000   3520000     3840000   4160000    4480000    4800000    5120000    5440000    5760000    6080000    6400000    6720000    7040000    7360000    7680000    8000000    8320000    8640000   8960000    9280000    9600000    9920000    10240000     10560000     10880000     11200000     11520000     11840000     12160000     12480000     -1
BARD             0           10      5000        10000        20000       40000       75000       143000      243000      400000      600000      880000      1160000     1440000     1720000     2000000     2280000     2560000     2840000     3120000     3200000   3520000     3840000   4160000    4480000    4800000    5120000    5440000    5760000    6080000    6400000    6720000    7040000    7360000    7680000    8000000    8320000    8640000   8960000    9280000    9600000    9920000    10240000     10560000     10880000     11200000     11520000     11840000     12160000     12480000     -1
SORCERER         0           10      5000        10000        20000       40000       75000       143000      243000      400000      600000      880000      1160000     1440000     1720000     2000000     2280000     2560000     2840000     3120000     3200000   3520000     3840000   4160000    4480000    4800000    5120000    5440000    5760000    6080000    6400000    6720000    7040000    7360000    7680000    8000000    8320000    8640000   8960000    9280000    9600000    9920000    10240000     10560000     10880000     11200000     11520000     11840000     12160000     12480000     -1
MONK             0           10      5000        10000        20000       40000       75000       143000      243000      400000      600000      880000      1160000     1440000     1720000     2000000     2280000     2560000     2840000     3120000     3200000   3520000     3840000   4160000    4480000    4800000    5120000    5440000    5760000    6080000    6400000    6720000    7040000    7360000    7680000    8000000    8320000    8640000   8960000    9280000    9600000    9920000    10240000     10560000     10880000     11200000     11520000     11840000     12160000     12480000     -1

The Thac0 table can be set to reflect this change or not, and the other tables can too, but that's not the point here, the level up to level 2 is. At 10 xp, you can get it at Candlekeep. Even with multiple characters/multi classes.

 

Which then brings me to the other topic, rogues&divine casters in KR, more specifically especially the thief. They get their ... handed to them as they do no longer level up any faster if you have multiple character team like the game is supposed to be played with, their HPs are 1d6 compared to divine casters 1d8 who have healing spells and better fighters cause their get better armor, their Thac0 progression is kinda the same and as the KR topic suggests to make it exactly the same. And yeah the healing spells and ouh the 162 HP Deva's, vs. trap that mostly does 30 HPs damage, hiphey.

Now the only saving graze the thieves have is their backstab/other thieving skills, but that's only as good in one perspective as any other party skill. Like for example if you have a divine caster, you don't really need a trap disabler as you can just walk over the traps with a tank and get damaged, and then heal them of the damage they took with the healer. Yeah that slows the game a bit, but it's not like there's anything that says you don't sleep every 10 rounds is there, except that that's not very convincing or fun to do while you play the game.

To fix this wrongdoing, I would propose that the thieves are rewarded with being able to get a 1d8 HPs, while their divine caster counterparts would get 1d6 HPs. Bards, in my honest opinion should get more low level arcane spells, more than mages, so they can deal with the 1d6 just fine. Giving the thieves the bigger hit points dice won't make them OP, especially if you tweak their backstab multiplier to start to increase at a lower rate, but that's subjective. And Rangers with higher Thac0, equal HPs and better armors etc won't feel that OP here either.

Yes, the thieves get dual/multi-class, but that's not a big deal.. as the divine casters can get them as well. And the HPs there would actually make more sense too.

 

Comments ?

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I like. Contrary to the usual nonsense, this makes sense and I like the XP table and your thieves HP proposed change. I already mentioned this to Demi but he feels as if better saves thieves get is enough to offset the HP loss. I'd disagree, and I hate seeing thieves as somebody who sits in the back with a bow for first 10 levels since they die instantly to a minor sequencer of magic missiles.

One thing about XP table - SCS hardcodes HLAs at level 18, so the only acceptable value for that level is 3 million.

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One thing about XP table - SCS hardcodes HLAs at level 18, so the only acceptable value for that level is 3 million.

I having surface checked the SCS code to make not-heads-or-tails, but to my understanding the SCS only requires .cre power level(offset 0x0018) to be 18, so it should effect only opponents, not characters. I could be wrong of course, but you'll have to dig it from the code for me to believe.

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But the opponents level has nothing to do with when they show up ... if you install the one SCS component that make all the spawns the hardest. And even if you don't, the opponents level is just one value on multiple of other things. Yeah, the SCS looks it as if it were the only balance thing in the game, but that's not really what it's about, as you can have giants that are level 1 and still be harder fights than any other if you really want that. And the SCS will never make any encounter ridiculously easy ... based on any factor. Other than if you choose the non ToB game to not have the HLAs. If that could ever be the case, which is clearly not the case in most things.

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I disagree. If you meet a level 19 mage, he'll have two HLAs and the correct ammout of spells a level 19 mage should (SCS draws data from same table you use, even if tweaked). A PC mage using your table would have no HLAs at all.This is very unfair imo, and it has nothing to do with hardest spawns.

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I disagree. If you meet a level 19 mage...

Yeah, where the distinction plaque that says "I am a level 19th mage" ? It's in the .cre files offset... and only there, if there's even a creature that has that ...

 

Ouh and by the by, shouldn't the SCS actually read the value from the lunumab.2da file ? Reduce that from the creatures current level and get how many HLAs it should have ... if it has a legit class there. After all the mage and fighter get different HLA amounts on the same level in vanilla. It should.. and that fixes that. Cause it would be totally unfair to insist that if the player gets HLAs at level 18, that the hostile warriors need to wait until level 20 to get any HLAs.

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I disagree. If you meet a level 19 mage...

Yeah, where the distinction plaque that says "I am a level 19th mage" ? It's in the .cre files offset... and only there, if there's even a creature that has that ...

The "distinction plaque" is in the ammount of spells mage has memorized, his HP and the relative power of his spells.

 

 

Ouh and by the by, shouldn't the SCS actually read the value from the lunumab.2da file ? Reduce that from the creatures current level and get how many HLAs it should have ... if it has a legit class there.

Well, GL with that; in any case.

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I rather suggest keeping rogues at 1d6 hp, dropping priests to the same 1d6, and dropping warriors to 1d8 (and barbs 1d10). Yeah - BECMI hit dice. Thing is, most players maximize hit points instead of averaging, so reducing the hit dice actually brings the game back toward the balance it is meant to have.

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I rather suggest keeping rogues at 1d6 hp, dropping priests to the same 1d6, and dropping warriors to 1d8 (and barbs 1d10). Yeah - BECMI hit dice. Thing is, most players maximize hit points instead of averaging, so reducing the hit dice actually brings the game back toward the balance it is meant to have.

Were the enemy to have those HDs, that could be argued... but having mages that have 60-80 HPs is arguably impossible in that system, so the game creatures are cheating in your rule system, so that's WORSE.

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I rather suggest keeping rogues at 1d6 hp, dropping priests to the same 1d6, and dropping warriors to 1d8 (and barbs 1d10). Yeah - BECMI hit dice. Thing is, most players maximize hit points instead of averaging, so reducing the hit dice actually brings the game back toward the balance it is meant to have.

Were the enemy to have those HDs, that could be argued... but having mages that have 60-80 HPs is arguably impossible in that system, so the game creatures are cheating in your rule system, so that's WORSE.

But, but... that suggestion didn't change mage hit points st all... :/

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But, but... that suggestion didn't change mage hit points st all... :/

Well the only way one can explain all the hidden extra stuff the enemy's got that the player never do is that they can also dual class. Or else the SCS would need to gimp 90% of the monsters somehow as you can't have that many HPs. Show me a dragon that ends up somehow with 200+ hps with your system ? And the stats they have, and if they have a character class, then use the HD. And then tell me about the balance the game has. And by the way, you don't get an avarage of 8 from a 1d8... you and the monsters should actually get a 4.5 out of it. So any monster that's got 90 HPs with CON 9 is 20th level one at least, even if you take out the fact that the player doesn't get the 10+ levels HDs, but a very far smaller +HP bonus per level.
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Dragons (and other monsters) are different. They get 1d8 hit points per hit die. So you could have a 200 hp dragon if it's a 25HD monster.

 

Plus, SCS only sets enemy hit points that high if you install the "make these scenarios harder" components. Those components specifically deviate from the PnP rules, on purpose.

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