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Just one opinion


Sergio

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- Original post -

 

Hey, nice to meet all of you.

Sorry if this post is going to be long, but bear it for me.

 

In these days, I was checking around for mods worth to be added to my baldur's gate installation, when I stumbled into this one. I have to admit that if I just judged it by the readme, it wouldn't hit me much, especially because the stuff I would like to see seems to be inside the forum (where there are sections for all kind of different items and how they got changed).

 

At first sight, I must admit that I was really amazed by it. The concept, and the idea, is great.

There are some things that I really really like (like for example, the fact that you removed the items' property that set your attribute to a number and subbed it with a +insertanumberhere).

But...

I have to say that sometimes you go way too much into nerfing stuff.

 

When I get an item, especially if I needed so much time to earn it (take the ring of gaax, for example) - I do not want to have a item that is on par with the others, or just slightly better. I would like to have an item that is way better than the others (after all, isn't this what adventurersaim to search\find?).

 

So, maybe I'm wrong (after all the mod isn't mine) but you should try to buff stuff to make it possible to actually have a choice when it comes to equipment.

 

If I was going to play Bg2 vanilla right now, I already know how I will have to set the inventory of my main character.

But this isn't right! I mean, in a certain way it is, because near the end you are going always to find better and better stuff, but it shouldn't be set like that. I should have options.

 

When I say "I do not want to have a item that is on par with the others, or just slightly better. I would like to have an item that is way better than the others" I'm not referring to the stats of the item per-se, because it is obvious that if I get a ring that gives me +100% magic resistance that's actually better than anything else I'm going to find.

What I meant to say, is that by buffing everything, you are basically leaving choices. I do not need something that is good per se, but I need stuff that makes me ponder if that item I've managed to find is better than the stuff I am currently wearing. Hope that was clearer.

 

So that's my personal opinion. I could give you example. Let me post the topic first, then I'll add them.

 

 

 

I've got some examples:

 

Well. Let's start.

 

 

Human Flesh +4

Equipped Abilities:

Saving Throws: +2 bonus

Magic Resistance: +20% bonus

Armor Class: 3

Arcane Spell Failure: 10%

Thieving Skills Penalty: none

 

Why did you nerf it? I know it's probably strong, but nerfing it is not the right choice. Damn, it is a skin that was boiled with silver's dragon blood. This armor reeks of the stench of evil. Are you actually afraid it could be too strong? I assure you, I beat a silver dragon and all I was able to find was his blood. Now is it too strong? When I face Firkragg I find many items including the most powerful weapon out there (ah also his scales).

Is it still strong if you compare from what you get if you face firkragg?

 

By the way, I was checking this armor

 

Skin of the Ghoul +2

Equipped Abilities:

Charisma: -2 penalty

Saving Throws: +2 bonus vs. paralyzation

Stench: living creatures within 10 feet must save vs. death each round or be nauseated, suffering -2 penalty to attack rolls and 25% casting failure rate

Armor Class: 4

Arcane Spell Failure: 20%

Movement Rate Penalty: 10%

Thieving Skills Penalty: 30%

 

and via the stench you achieved a lot. More to why later.

 

I would actually add a kind of stench effect to the "vanilla" human armor [Maybe something to scare dragons a bit when you are facing them? I find it hard to believe they won't realize you are currently wearing an armor that was boiled with their blood].

I would have to think about it, and what are the effects, though.

 

Another armor:

 

Grandmaster's Armor +5

Equipped Abilities:

Haste: wearer's movement rate is doubled, he gains an additional attack per round, +1 bonus to attack rolls, armor class and saves vs. breath

Armor Class: 3

Arcane Spell Failure: 10%

Thieving Skills Penalty: none

 

May I ask why you have given a save for breath? I mean, what was the idea behind the breath stuff. For example, why didn't you go for +% for hiding into the shadows?

 

Armor of the Viper +4

Special Abilities (once per day):

Poisonous Cloud

Equipped Abilities:

Immunity to poison effects

Armor Class: 3

Arcane Spell Failure: 15%

Thieving Skills Penalty: 20%

 

Notes: previoulsy had -2 penalty to saves vs. death/poison (= useless). Poisonous Cloud is a sort of Cloudkill.

 

I sort of agree with you for what you've done. But I do not agree with the poisonous cloud (it's a power). How are you actually justifying the fact that an armor gives you an ability like that one? Does it have a sort of storage that makes you able to launch spells?

If I was you I would just remove the penalty. But still, it doesn't justify his usefulness. Let me think. What can be added?

What about a sort of "reflect damage", an acid damage that the enemy get when trying to melee the thief?

 

 

 

Gauntlets of Healing

Special Abilities (once per day):

Lay on Hands

Equipped Abilities:

Regeneration: 1 hp every 18 seconds

Usable By:

Cleric

Paladin

 

Notes: Cure Poison has been replaced by a once/day use of Lay on Hands (cures 2hp x character level), and I've added a small regeneration bonus to give it at least one equipped effect. I've made them usable by all paladin kits to fix a compatibility issue with Refinements.

 

Tell me: would you use this gauntlet or do you think their power is actually kinda "limited"?

I mean, look at them. I know already that If I want to use a spell I'll use a cleric and if I wanted the regeneration effect, I would just go for the ring of regeneration. Why should I choose this gauntlet for my paladin? I see no reason. They are not worth it.

Are you telling me that the way you buffed them is just to make me switch the gauntlet right after a fight and make me use their power, then remove them, sleep, and then use their 2xheal on my party members\me?

 

They should get buffed to make them helpful.

What I don't like for example, is the fact that you give powers. Powers are cheesy and limited. Equipment shouldn't be based on powers (if it was me I would just remove all the powers - for example, don't you think it is pathetic that you just wear something to use their power, then remove it from your equipment? Are you planning to actually add a power? Add some sort of Aura - something like a draining effect if you want to make it more interesting, but do not add a power. For example, the sword of chaos has a draining hp effect. Why can't this effect be added to these gauntlets? It would be cool if they add a better regeneration or some sort of draining hp effect when it came to killing evil stuff - I know that probably these paladins of the radiant heart suffer of greed and they just give trash to <charname> because they are envying him for the stuff that he could do with decent equipment, but hey, one can dream).

 

 

Well, I could continue, but I think that writing and sort of reviewing everything could be wasted time. In the end the mod isn't mine, and maybe I didn't even put myself as well as I could. So sorry if maybe something offended you (didn't mean to).

Thanks for listening! :D

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May I ask why you have given a save for breath? I mean, what was the idea behind the breath stuff. For example, why didn't you go for +% for hiding into the shadows?
This is from what I have read, so take it with as much salt as you wish...

The Breath save is the worst save the Thieves have, and as the Spell Revision mod makes more of the damage spells rely on the Breath save than the magic save, this is a reflection of that.

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First of all welcome among us! :)

 

Readme

I have to admit that if I just judged it by the readme, it wouldn't hit me much, especially because the stuff I would like to see seems to be inside the forum (where there are sections for all kind of different items and how they got changed).
This mod is so huge that its difficult to describe everything it does on a readme, but the latter provides the links you need to get here and find all the infos you need (I spent ages writing down the Item index and keeping it updated).

 

Do you feel the readme was lacking something in particular?

 

Items power level & variety

I have to say that sometimes you go way too much into nerfing stuff.
We will discuss specific items later, but as a general rule I actually think IR is more about improving underpowered items rather than nerfing overpowered ones. I do had to nerf a few almost broken items, but even in those cases I tried to keep them as cool as possible.

 

...you should try to buff stuff to make it possible to actually have a choice when it comes to equipment.
As I said, I do tried to "buff" certain items, but to achieve what you are asking for I actually pointed more on variety rather than simply buffing everything.

 

IR should allow you to have multiple equipment choices indeed, not because everything is powerful, but because everything is useful. For example instead of having a single weapon excel in all situations, you have weapons that excel in a particular role/situation.

 

I promise you that tomorrow I will answer to your second post (aka specific item changes) but now I really need some sleep. ;)

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May I ask why you have given a save for breath? I mean, what was the idea behind the breath stuff. For example, why didn't you go for +% for hiding into the shadows?

I believe the breath save bonus is just a byproduct of the haste effect on the item. Being able to act more quickly would inherently make it easier to dodge such attacks.

 

Readme

I have to admit that if I just judged it by the readme, it wouldn't hit me much, especially because the stuff I would like to see seems to be inside the forum (where there are sections for all kind of different items and how they got changed).
This mod is so huge that its difficult to describe everything it does on a readme, but the latter provides the links you need to get here and find all the infos you need (I spent ages writing down the Item index and keeping it updated).

 

Do you feel the readme was lacking something in particular?

I'd personally like to see the readme revamped someday to include less text and more screenshots, diagrams, and specific examples. The item index on the forums is handy for editing, but it could be integrated into a web format to provide easier navigation and improved formatting.

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Gold dreams Demivrgvs ! :D

 

By the way, I sort of agree with Mike.

 

The only thing I would change in the readme is not the text, but the approach. You give many details on the readme, but I was able to comprehend them when I was given examples, examples that are available on the forum.

 

For me, actually these 4 components are the main part (After all, the difficult part is tweaking items, isn't it? )

 

 

- Weapon Changes

- Characteristics Set by Items

- Item Restriction Changes

- Masterwork Weapons

 

At the end of these 4 entries I would add a summary of "some" of the items and how they got changed. I saw that you made a list that actually contains, together with the items, some notes on how and why you changed them.

Do you like especially some of your items? Give some examples.

You should also add a link to the forum to the item index (http://forums.gibberlings3.net/index.php?showtopic=15700)

 

 

Then if you feel like they should be part of the main install of every user, strongly advise to install these

 

- Sensible Prices

- Effect of Charisma and Reputation on Store Prices

- Sensible Lore System

 

When reading the readme, I'm afraid I do not understand the difference between main component and global changes. so I would streamline that.

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Readme

I'd personally like to see the readme revamped someday to include less text and more screenshots, diagrams, and specific examples. The item index on the forums is handy for editing, but it could be integrated into a web format to provide easier navigation and improved formatting.
For some reason I thought the readme already had a link to the Item Index (SR's readme do have similar links), that is a sure must.

 

If you think you can improve the readme you are obviously welcome Mike, I and Arda left this job to you for a reason man. ;)

 

X/Day abilities

What I don't like for example, is the fact that you give powers. Powers are cheesy and limited. Equipment shouldn't be based on powers (if it was me I would just remove all the powers - for example, don't you think it is pathetic that you just wear something to use their power, then remove it from your equipment? Are you planning to actually add a power? Add some sort of Aura - something like a draining effect if you want to make it more interesting, but do not add a power.
You are new here and thus bringing up things we actually discussed for ages. Unfortunately I don't think I can dig up all those dusty discussions for you and provide easy links, but I can assure you that you got the wrong impression. :)

 

Long story short: I really don't like to focus on x/day abilities for pretty much the same reason you mentioned.

 

If you take a closer look at what we have done you will notice that I've actually strived to accomplish what you are suggesting. Quick examples could be Namarra, where I replaced its x/day silence with similary-themed powers that can only be used by effectively equipping and swinging the sword, or the Shield Amulet, where a x/day ability has been replaced by a permanent while equipped AC boost.

 

There's probably still room for improvements, but your wishes and my goal are the same. ;)

 

Human Flesh

Why did you nerf it? I know it's probably strong, but nerfing it is not the right choice. Damn, it is a skin that was boiled with silver's dragon blood. This armor reeks of the stench of evil. Are you actually afraid it could be too strong? I assure you, I beat a silver dragon and all I was able to find was his blood. Now is it too strong? When I face Firkragg I find many items including the most powerful weapon out there (ah also his scales).

Is it still strong if you compare from what you get if you face firkragg?

I strongly believe vanilla's +4 to all saves was broken, as it easily turns out as "never fail a save" just by itself. My real intention wasn't to "nerf" the armor (see below, I actually hoped to improve it sooner or later) but prevent its "abuse".

 

That being said, I have no problems with keeping this item as powerful as it can be. As long as it remains "balanced" I would actually love to have it shine as an extremely appealing armor.

 

I would actually add a kind of stench effect to the "vanilla" human armor [Maybe something to scare dragons a bit when you are facing them? I find it hard to believe they won't realize you are currently wearing an armor that was boiled with their blood].

I would have to think about it, and what are the effects, though.

Yes, believe it or not but ages ago I suggested a similar thing, though my idea was more about something to scare humans (or humanoids). I'll think about it again.

 

Btw, a dragon cannot be scared. ;)

 

Grandmaster's Armor

May I ask why you have given a save for breath? I mean, what was the idea behind the breath stuff. For example, why didn't you go for +% for hiding into the shadows?
I believe the breath save bonus is just a byproduct of the haste effect on the item. Being able to act more quickly would inherently make it easier to dodge such attacks.
What Mike says.

 

Spell Revisions and Kit Revisions go further by making breath saves cover all reflex based spells, and giving rogues extremely good reflexes.

 

Armor of the Viper

I sort of agree with you for what you've done. But I do not agree with the poisonous cloud (it's a power). How are you actually justifying the fact that an armor gives you an ability like that one? Does it have a sort of storage that makes you able to launch spells?

If I was you I would just remove the penalty. But still, it doesn't justify his usefulness. Let me think. What can be added?

What about a sort of "reflect damage", an acid damage that the enemy get when trying to melee the thief?

I kinda agree with you, and I thought about something like "poison damage on attackers". The old Studded Leather Armor of Thorns was too similar back then, but considering it's not the case anymore I may re-think about it. Mmm...

 

Gauntlets of Healing

Tell me: would you use this gauntlet or do you think their power is actually kinda "limited"?

I mean, look at them. I know already that If I want to use a spell I'll use a cleric and if I wanted the regeneration effect, I would just go for the ring of regeneration. Why should I choose this gauntlet for my paladin? I see no reason. They are not worth it.

Gauntlets generally have small powers, and my intention was just to make them at least slightly appealing. The regenerating effect per se may not be huge, but it can be combined with other effects with good results imo.

 

Are you telling me that the way you buffed them is just to make me switch the gauntlet right after a fight and make me use their power, then remove them, sleep, and then use their 2xheal on my party members\me?
That's something I really don't want to encourage. :D

 

For example, the sword of chaos has a draining hp effect. Why can't this effect be added to these gauntlets? It would be cool if they add a better regeneration or some sort of draining hp effect when it came to killing evil stuff...
I do suggested back then to replace the regeneration with a 4E-like Healing Strike effect, but most players pointed out that a vampiric-like effect looks kinda "evil" for a paladin oritented item.

 

Feedback

Well, I could continue, but I think that writing and sort of reviewing everything could be wasted time. In the end the mod isn't mine, and maybe I didn't even put myself as well as I could. So sorry if maybe something offended you (didn't mean to).
I don't have nearly as much time as I once had to answer with my usual walls of text, but I always encouraged players to give me all the feedback they can and I still believe player's feedback is crucial to shape all Revisions mods. So, go ahead if you wish. :)
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1) Grandmaster's Armor:

 

Now the breath save bonus make sense.

 

2) Armor of the viper – Human flesh

 

Thanks for considering my feedback.

I have to admit I’m especially fond of Human flesh; that’s because it is the only reward I’m getting from a silver dragon and per-se, it is not that good. I guess for an evil thief it is ok, but hey, I was never a thief; it actually becomes quite good in Throne of Bhaal, where Ac stops to matter. I can understand why you say that it could be too good, and even if I’m not totally a fan, I guess I can see your point.

 

To be sincere, you said that the stench could be perceived by humanoids. That could be a good idea; when I meant that dragons should be scared, I didn’t mean they had to be genuinely scared; I was thinking to a malus for their abilities, or a bonus to yours when fighting them.

 

Now that I think about it, [i was writing the following paragraph concerning the gauntlets of healing but this thought just stepped into my mind] – you said that you are afraid the human armor could be too strong.

Now, bear with me. If we were playing Vanilla, am I wrong thinking that you can’t actually wear the ring of protection +2? . So isn’t the human flesh already balanced per-se?

Or maybe you are just thinking with all the components installed in your mind.

 

3) Gauntlets of healing

 

I understand your point.

I will have to think how they could be improved.

I had an idea but I don’t think if it is good (Actually it probably sucks)

 

- You could just add a permanent undispellable “protection from evil” while improving their regeneration.

You said that “Gauntlets generally have small powers”; would you said that when you were using gauntles of dexterity and or ogre’s gauntlets? J

 

- You could add a aura that heals party members that only gets activated when in combat and grants regeneration to all of them.

While removing the personal regeneration thing and add a +1 Ac when being worn.

 

Oh well… maybe some gauntlets are just born to not be used :p

 

 

 

 

 

 

################################################################################

 

Ok, the following are the items that do not match to my taste; this means that all the one I didn’t name are actually pretty good at least when it comes to my taste.

 

A) Orc Leather +2

Equipped Abilities:

Charisma: -1 penalty

Physical Damage Resistance: +10% bonus

Armor Class: 5

Arcane Spell Failure: 15%

Thieving Skills Penalty: 20%

 

Notes: I've lowered its enchantment lvl by 1 but physical resistance has been extended from missile damage to all weapon type. This armor might actually be less appealing than before for most classes (AC generally is more important than physical res, even more so for characters with mid-low hit vitality) but it now has huge potential for barbarians, especially when used with other items which boost physical resistance.

Was going to write something for this one, but I’m actually fighting myself when doing it. I’m, not totally sure on how to approach this armor. I mean, I’ve checked Mike’s rpg center and it seems that the worst orc leather you can get inside bgII – Soa is ORC LEATHER +3 and that’s inside Nalia’s keep.

> Where would I find this armor?

> did you plan this armor with the barbarian in mind?

I’m not satisfied with this armor, but it seems like you have done the best you could do.

 

The problem with my approach to this armor is that I have to cut myself in two parts:

 

- The person that plays the game for enjoyment and fun (for me the armor is actually quite fine)

- The powerplayer that lies within me (this answer directly the fact that you said it has huge potential for barbarians)

 

If I’m powerplaying, I think I could be using this armor, even if I would have liked to have another +5% to physical resistance, but I guess in the end even adding a +% wouldn’t really matter.

 

> Did you just plan for this armor to be end-game material for barbarians?

 

I was comparing this armor to see what a barbarian can wear and these were the results:

 

 

 

- Grandmaster armor -

Haste: wearer's movement rate is doubled, he gains an additional attack per round, +1 bonus to attack rolls, armor class and saves vs. breath

 

Your note: <<it clearly stands out as the perfect armor for any rogue-like character.>>

 

> Do you mean you’ve limited it to be worn only by thief?

 

- white dragon armor (this is another neat armor for a barbarian that is in his way to level 40)

 

 

Leather of Thorns – this armor was explicitely made (I think) as a answer to the human flesh;

> am I wrong or did you actually replace it with the following:

 

Trollhide Armor +4

Equipped Abilities:

Acid Resistance: -25% penalty

Fire Resistance: -25% penalty

Regeneration: wearer regenerates 1 hit point every 3 seconds

Armor Class: 2

Arcane Spell Failure: 20%

Movement Rate Penalty: 10%

Thieving Skills Penalty: 30%

 

I don’t understand why you replaced it.

 

> What did you have in mind? I mean, what were you trying to achieve?

> Isn’t this armor supposed to be Sendai’s armor?

> Why didn’t you just buff it to have outstanding ac and slight elemental resistances + physical resistances (after all right now we are talking about sendai’s armor – I would like to sub my orc leather armor – no offense to your orcs).

> Or you could have just made it to have a outstanding AC + Buff the fire effect (let’s be sincere - 1d4 points of fire damage on opponents who hit the wearer on TOB SUCKS – especially when there are all these enemies around that have so many immunities.)

 

Ok, hope my point was clear.

 

First part of the post (first part of the -I don't know how many parts-)

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Aeger's Hide +3

Equipped Abilities:

Animal Rage: when the wearer drops below 25% hit points, he gains +2 bonus to attack rolls, damage rolls, and movement rate, but loses control of himself

Elemental Resistance: +10% bonus

Armor Class: 3

Arcane Spell Failure: 20%

Movement Rate Penalty: 10%

Thieving Skills Penalty: 30%

 

Notes: elemental resistance now covers all type of elemental damage (I've added electrical one, but lowered all of them from 15% to 10%). I've also removed immunity to confusion but I added Animal Rage to make it unique. I seriously need player's feedback to make Animal Rage a balanced and interesting feature instead of a nuisance (e.g. should I allow a will save to avoid going out of control?).

 

If I was you I would add the save. Actually, I would make it so that the save covers you for one turn, then you have to make a save again. ;)

 

 

Btw, checked the shadow dragon armor and it’s actually quite good.

 

> May I ask what’s the difference between hide armor and leather armor in BGII?

 

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Crimson Chain +5

Equipped Abilities:

Blood Rage: 5% chance when struck the wearer enrages, gaining +2 bonus to attack rolls, damage rolls, and saving throws, but losing control of himself for 5 rounds

Tireless Rage: wearer doesn't become winded at the end of any rage state

Armor Class: 0

Arcane Spell Failure: 30%

Dexterity Penalty: 5%

Movement Rate Penalty: 10%

Thieving Skills Penalty: 40%

 

Notes: Tireless Rage makes this suit especially tailored for berserker characters (though I've always thought barbarian's rage too should apply a fatigue effect afterward). Blood rage just add some fun, and makes it useful for non-berserker characters.

 

So I’m not totally a fan of losing control of your character. Bear with me, I like your idea.

If I was oyu, I would sub blood rage with an ability called “I-do-not-have-time-to-think-about-a-name-right-now”; basically when the wearer is struck the person hitting you has to do a save vs fear. [after all it could be justified by the fame of the people that wore this armor),

 

Lore of the armor: the dark red metal used to make this chain is said to come from a hidden mine in the Cloudpeaks. At one time the Bloodway, a band of evil adventurers, all wore armor of this kind, but the other suits have long been lost.

 

################################

Aslyferund Elven Chain +5

Equipped Abilities:

Casting Speed: +1 bonus

Immunity to non-magical weapons

Armor Class: 0

Arcane Spell Failure: none

Dexterity Penalty: none

Movement Rate Penalty: none

Thieving Skills Penalty: 10%

 

Notes: slightly more powerful than before, but I never found it overpowered. Considering it's quite hard to obtain, and incredibly expensive, I do think it deserves to be outstanding.

So, bear with me. The armor in his current shape is not as good as it could be.

 

à This armor is available in Baldur's Gate II: Throne of Bhaal, but at this stage in the Bhaalspawn serie, enemies which are using normal weapons are becoming scarce, to the point that well, they are not available. the only place where you can find Yuan-ti and Rakshasas if I remember well is the saradush sewer, and one meeting in the country when trying to reach the grove with Yaga-shura’s mother.

 

I would change first the unupgraded armor (if I remember well it should be Bladesinger Chain +4); I would add

+% MR

+x to Dexterity

God’s blessing (higher saving throws)

 

and remove the

casting speed +1 bonus

right now I do not remember for who or how you planned this armor. I admit sometimes I get confused because I’ve never played with your mod and If I read in wikipedia it is said for example that in vanilla this armor can’t be used by mages, but the fact that you used +casting speed means that your mod change that. And I have to admit that while you have a greater design on your mind, I analize the entries singularly. this armor suited. I remember that it was just forgivable.

So, on top of what I said before add some other abilities according to who this armor is suited for:

Mages (+Caster level)

Fighters (+ % elemental resistance – more to why I didn’t say physical resistance)

 

then when it gets upgraded by cespenar with the immunity to normal weapons I would add a

 

+% to Physical resistances so you can actually get a decent alternatives to all the stuff being currently in tob \watcher’s keep

 

Now it’s kinda a good armor, isn’t it? ahahah. Maybe I over-stepped the boundaries, but you get this armor on the end of BgII-SOA, and all you do with it is just trash it. Seems not fair. Or at least I trashed it.

 

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White Dragon Scale Armor +5

Special Abilities (3 times/day):

Cone of Freezing Cold: inflicts 10d4 + 10 points of cold damage and slows targets for 5 rounds, a successful save vs. breath at -4 halves the damage and negates slowness

Equipped Abilities:

Cold Resistance: +50% bonus

Armor Class: -1

Arcane Spell Failure: 30%

Dexterity Penalty: 5%

Movement Rate Penalty: 10%

Thieving Skills Penalty: 40%

 

Would love to see this armor changed. I understand what you’ve done, but there are almost no “cold” enemies on Bg II. So the armor is not good as it could be. Even the shadow armor is infinitely better.

If the scales could be moved into adalon, I would actually write in the description that this armor can’t be used by good people and add some sort of decent stats. But I’ll have to think about it.

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it is obvious that if I get a ring that gives me +100% magic resistance that's actually better than anything else I'm going to find.

Not really. Sometimes a Ring of Fire resistance will be of more use than a 100% MR ring. There isn't "the most powerful" ring, sword etc. with IR. You use what you need when you need it.

 

 

Human Flesh +4

When I face Firkragg I find many items including the most powerful weapon out there (ah also his scales).

Is it still strong if you compare from what you get if you face firkragg?

I disagree here. Human flesh is imo perfect for several characters; Viconia, a MR built rogue character or a KR Wizardslayer. As I see it, it's fine as it is. +4 to saves is pretty crazy.

Also, I don't think that IR Carsomyr (nor it's vanilla incarnation) are as powerful as their reputation. It's slow, dispel allows a save, and is actually much better against fighters than mages. Personally, I'd use Silver Sword or Psion's Blade over Carsomyr any day.

 

Grandmaster's Armor +5

May I ask why you have given a save for breath? I mean, what was the idea behind the breath stuff. For example, why didn't you go for +% for hiding into the shadows?

Save vs breath will make no sense w/o Spell Revisions. Hide in shadows bonus for a ToB item is useless.

 

Armor of the Viper +4

What about a sort of "reflect damage", an acid damage that the enemy get when trying to melee the thief?

I don't like this, for several reasons - no thief kit would benefit from it - swashbucklers aim not to get hit in the first place, assassins spend 90% of time invisible, BH lays traps beforehand.

Second, there are already plenty of items with such effects in IR (Yamato, Vengeance cloak, Death Knight armor etc.).

The problem with this armor is the fact that you get it very late (Underdark), not it's effects.

 

Gauntlets of Healing

I agree here, they're pretty much useless, considering you can get much better by visiting WK.

 

Aeger's Hide +3

Crimson Chain +5

Both are imo bad. Loosing control is not a good thing, and "on hit" triggers on plently of things (i.e. trapped in Web, being in Stinking Cloud etc.), not just getting hit.

Probably should both be reworked.

 

 

Aslyferund Elven Chain +5

It's fine as it is. A multiclassed mage can use it to cast protective spells like Pfmw/Stoneskin etc. instantly, without interruption, which is crucial in some battles.

 

White Dragon Scale Armor +5

I don't see anything wrong with it. Nice ability, nice AC, nice (and hard to obtain) resistance to Cold damage.

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it is obvious that if I get a ring that gives me +100% magic resistance that's actually better than anything else I'm going to find.

cut

 

-The ring. If I've got a ring that has 50% mr it will be always better than a ring that gives me 50% resistance to fire. High mr will shield me for everything, including fire. Am I wrong?

 

- Human flesh. What I meant to say is not actually that it is not good, but that nerfing it when it is the result of a very long campaign and you had to wait a lot to get it seems "unrewarding". If you make viconia wear it, well that's good for you but it doesn't matter. By the way, what is KR?

 

- Grandmaster armor. ;)

 

- armor of the viper. You are right.

 

- Aslyferund. If I was a multiclassed mage, I would go for vecna's robe.

 

- White dragon armor. It is fine indeed, but cold resistance is useless. Can you name me one good enemy that use cold?

 

Edit: ah, now that I think about the armor of the viper, what about instead of a reflect damage, a chance that you can get poisoned when hitting the character wearing that armor? ;) Would you like that more?

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Do you mind if I edit your posts a bit just to reduce the huge amount of wall of text? :D It's kinda hard to read your posts when you don't even separate what I wrote within item index's notes and your own stuff.

 

Anyway, let's see...

 

Human flesh

If we were playing Vanilla, am I wrong thinking that you can’t actually wear the ring of protection +2? So isn’t the human flesh already balanced per-se?

Or maybe you are just thinking with all the components installed in your mind.

I obviously take all parts of IR into account when balancing things, even other Revisions mods (SR and to a lesser extent KR). you see, there's a huge master plan behind each and every component of these mods, and they are supposed to be used together to get the best results, but at the same time I try to make everything somewhat balanced in any environment.

 

Short story: yes, within IR you can use a Ring of Protection together with this armor, which means that combining them you can still get insanely good saves, but at east you need to combine two items focused on that particular role to achieve the same result.

 

Gauntlets of healing

- You could just add a permanent undispellable “protection from evil” while improving their regeneration.

You said that “Gauntlets generally have small powers”; would you said that when you were using gauntles of dexterity and or ogre’s gauntlets?

- You could add a aura that heals party members that only gets activated when in combat and grants regeneration to all of them.

- PfE is a kinda overused power between items, spells and abilities. Not to mention vanilla's Paladin has it by default with tons of uses per day.

- that's pretty much what the Cleirc's Staff does.

 

Orc Leather

> Where would I find this armor?

> did you plan this armor with the barbarian in mind?

> Did you just plan for this armor to be end-game material for barbarians?

- unless Arda moved it (I don't think he did) it's still within Nalia's Keep

- sort of. I simply kept vanilla's template and expanded upon it, but the Barbarian is clearly the perfect user.

- no, it can still be good for them later on, especially on certain character builds, but I cannot pretend for an armor available at the very beginning of BG2 to still compete with ToB stuff.

 

Grandmaster Armor

Your note: <<it clearly stands out as the perfect armor for any rogue-like character.>>

 

> Do you mean you’ve limited it to be worn only by thief?

No, I was just saying that this armor is perfect for rogue-like characters who value fast movement. This armor is also a great pick for a Ranger or even a Barbarian indeed.

 

Trollhide Armor +4

I don’t understand why you replaced it.

 

> What did you have in mind? I mean, what were you trying to achieve?

> Isn’t this armor supposed to be Sendai’s armor?

> Why didn’t you just buff it to have outstanding ac and slight elemental resistances + physical resistances

> Or you could have just made it to have a outstanding AC + Buff the fire effect

- vanilla's armor lacked a decent lore/background, which is a must have within IR. I simply found a good story who also fitted the item's color pattern and armor type, and went for it.

- not necessarily considering IR now handles item allocations as well, but in this case I see no conflict anyway.

- because we already have light armors with elemental or physical resistance, and I try to favor variety as much as possible

- great AC and an effect which triggers when struck are not complementary as Kreso just pointed out above for the Armor of the Viper.

 

Aeger's Hide

@Kreso, I'm going to change it yes. ;)

 

> May I ask what’s the difference between hide armor and leather armor in BGII?
Within vanilla the difference was very small, but within IR there are quite a few, especially if you install the Revised Armors component.

 

Short story: hide armors offer better protection (aka better AC) but are heavier, and thus impose small penalties to hiding skills and movements.

 

Crimson Chain

So I’m not totally a fan of losing control of your character. Bear with me, I like your idea.
What can I say, I loved the concept, but I have indeed to remove the loss of control. Even after spending months with KR's betatesters trying to create a cool uncontrollable Berserker class, we ultimately gave up because there's pretty much no way to make up for the loss of control in this environment.

 

If I was oyu, I would sub blood rage with an ability called “I-do-not-have-time-to-think-about-a-name-right-now”; basically when the wearer is struck the person hitting you has to do a save vs fear. [after all it could be justified by the fame of the people that wore this armor)
By "Save vs fear" you mean on a failed save the attacker is panicked? If yes, a melee character would actually find it counter-productive.

 

Aslyferund Elven Chain +5

Mages cannot use it, but Fighter-mages can. It the perfect armor for them, granting really great AC, allowing insta-casting of many crucial spells as Kreso says, and also turning PfMW into a real Absolute Immunity.

 

White Dragon Scale Armor +5

Would love to see this armor changed. I understand what you’ve done, but there are almost no “cold” enemies on Bg II. So the armor is not good as it could be. Even the shadow armor is infinitely better.
It offers the best AC of all medium armors, and with lower encumberance than your standard medium armors (e.g. lower DEX penalty).

 

If the scales could be moved into adalon, I would actually write in the description that this armor can’t be used by good people and add some sort of decent stats. But I’ll have to think about it.
Adalon is a Silver Dragon, not a White Dragon.

 

Kit Revisions

By the way, what is KR?
It's this mod. :)
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-The ring. If I've got a ring that has 50% mr it will be always better than a ring that gives me 50% resistance to fire. High mr will shield me for everything, including fire. Am I wrong?

Well, ask Firkraag when he uses his breath on Viconia. :D

It won't shield you from a number of bad things. In addition, having 100%MR in SCS only means that the character with such protection won't even get targeted by spells - leaving all your other party members more vulnerable.

 

- Human flesh. What I meant to say is not actually that it is not good, but that nerfing it when it is the result of a very long campaign and you had to wait a lot to get it seems "unrewarding". If you make viconia wear it, well that's good for you but it doesn't matter. By the way, what is KR?

KR is Kit Revisions, you can get beta version here at G3. I kind of understand the "unrewarding" feel about it but it is really a splendid armor. Not for tanking Fire Giants, but having a cleric with high MR+Reflection Shield goes a long way in ToB.

 

- Aslyferund. If I was a multiclassed mage, I would go for vecna's robe.

Different playstyle I guess - to really (ab)use Vecna one wants Alacrity as soon as possible, hence I only use it on a single class mage/sorcerer.

 

- White dragon armor. It is fine indeed, but cold resistance is useless. Can you name me one good enemy that use cold?

With SCS, it's random, but if SR is installed (SCS picks up on that and adjusts spellbooks with spells you won't see used otherwise) you'll see Cone of Cold used very often by various mages.

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@Demivrgvs

 

I'm sorry for what I'm doing. It is not (entirely) my fault. I do not have any ability to edit and so my posts are so many, especially when an idea can suddenly come to my mind right after I have posted. If you are able to, I would just edit all my post and format them so they can be somewhat decent. I do not think that this topic would have reached already page 2 if I could edit. So I actually encourage you to improve my post if you can. Also, I do not even have a preview and I write all my posts on word so I'm usually able to see them on their entirety.

If you can, format all my duplicate posts (sometimes I even made one-two post consequentially just as an idea went through my mind) so they can be sinthetized in one single post.

 

@Kreso

 

Ah sorry, I do not use SCS. I can now see the point of your post. I've tried to use SCS in the past, but I wasn't satisfied with it. I only use some components and none of them usually improve the Ai of the mages.

 

I never used a multimage class. I do not feel like they are worth it in my own mind. So, now I understand what you mean.

 

 

I will check KR. I'm rather curious on how it copes with Rogue rebalancing and Refinements; I also use wizard slayer rebalancing. Never knew there was an alternative to these mods.

 

We'll see :)

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