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Charm Person


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(why isn't there a spell for that already?)

Rigid thinking?
Yup. As a 3rd level divine. It worked for a whole round, though.

Oh which spell? I'm not able to find any 3rd level priest spell that causes confusion in SR 3.1 readme, "new divine spells for v4", or in "planned changes for v4". Is this a PnP spell?

Nvm, the spell's name IS rigid thinking! >.> I thought we were talking about how the original developers were rigid in their thinking.

Edited by spanyam
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Really? Non-leathal damage on a failed save is like magic missile?

Well, whatever other uses do you would have for the Non-lethal damage that reduce the enemy's HP's so they go unconscious... so you can later kill them. Without the others around to interfere, when they are dead already... or sneaking around the corner targeting your mage, although they never saw him, they know where he is.

 

quite easilly actually. I'd gather your posts. ...

We were talking about the code, not about the quotes... whahahhahahha. :p

 

sryyyy.... :D

Too obvious joke ... be only sorry that you didn't see it that way. Edited by Jarno Mikkola
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I know a way to make Charm Person work as desired (I've done this for my upcoming v3).

 

Basically Charm Person already works properly when cast by enemies on PCs (they turn "hostile" or red-circled but don't participate in combat unlike Dire Charm or Domination). It's only overpowered when used the other way around.

 

My solution was a follows: In the spell feature block after the charm effect add two EFF files, first one is zero duration, targeted at PC's (ids file=2, entry=2) and is called A^IMM177 which simply gives any PC failing their save against Charm Person immunity to the secondary EFF through #101 immunity to opcode #177 (this is necessary, because a PC can fail their save without actually being charmed, i.e. because they have charm immunity as a kit feature or via their equipment/buffs).

 

The second EFF allows a saving throw vs spell (so it's checked simultaneously to charm success), has the same duration as Charm Person spell (30 seconds) and is targeted at any GOODCUTOFF (ids file=2, entry=30), meaning it will affect any creature successfully charmed by a PC, this EFF file is called A^FEEBLE and causes feeblemindedness - i.e. making the charmed creature uncontrollable, so they cannot be made to fight for the party.

 

I decided to remove the saving throw bonus also to balance the spell being less useful. It would also be possible to allow 232 removal of the feeblemindedness effect for creatures that are attacked while charmed if that seems worthwhile.

Edited by polytope
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Charm Person

@polytope it's a nice tweak but I have some doubts:

- what if the target is immune to feeblemind and not to charm? It's not common but it cannot be excluded

- using Charm Person allowed unique dialog options within BG1 and I fear that applying this tweak automatically negates that

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Valid points.

 

Another option would be to replace the feeblemind effect with disable spellcasting (#145) and setting attacks per round to zero. So long as these were applied on a per-second basis via #272 repeating eff (and IDS targeted vs GOODCUTOFF i.e. player charmed creatures) then a charmed creature that breaks the charm due to being attacked could be ready to fight again in a second or two, party members would in this case need zero duration immunity to #272 instead of #177.

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There is also to consider one, in my opinion mandatory, modification introduced by ToBEx which disables the hostile reaction from charmed NPCs.

 

Demi's points are valid, especially the breaking of unique dialogue options for charmed NPCs.

 

Wouldn't it be possible to make the charmed NPC unable to perform hostile actions (by applying a hold effect or similar) whatsoever unless attacked?

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There is also to consider one, in my opinion mandatory, modification introduced by ToBEx which disables the hostile reaction from charmed NPCs.

 

Demi's points are valid, especially the breaking of unique dialogue options for charmed NPCs.

 

Wouldn't it be possible to make the charmed NPC unable to perform hostile actions (by applying a hold effect or similar) whatsoever unless attacked?

 

A hold effect has the same problems as feeblemind as far as dialogue goes - sleeping creatures can have dialogue with the player, held creatures cannot (though their scripts continue to run, unlike feebleminded creatures). It also has the additional problem that the creature is frozen in place (not showing the normal 'idle' animations) and can be struck automatically without an attack roll.

 

Disabling spellcasting and setting physical attacks to zero via eff files is the way to go IMO.

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There is also to consider one, in my opinion mandatory, modification introduced by ToBEx which disables the hostile reaction from charmed NPCs.

 

Demi's points are valid, especially the breaking of unique dialogue options for charmed NPCs.

 

Wouldn't it be possible to make the charmed NPC unable to perform hostile actions (by applying a hold effect or similar) whatsoever unless attacked?

 

A hold effect has the same problems as feeblemind as far as dialogue goes - sleeping creatures can have dialogue with the player, held creatures cannot (though their scripts continue to run, unlike feebleminded creatures). It also has the additional problem that the creature is frozen in place (not showing the normal 'idle' animations) and can be struck automatically without an attack roll.

 

Disabling spellcasting and setting physical attacks to zero via eff files is the way to go IMO.

 

This indeed seems better if it's doable.

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Another option would be to replace the feeblemind effect with disable spellcasting (#145) and setting attacks per round to zero. So long as these were applied on a per-second basis via #272 repeating eff (and IDS targeted vs GOODCUTOFF i.e. player charmed creatures) then a charmed creature that breaks the charm due to being attacked could be ready to fight again in a second or two, party members would in this case need zero duration immunity to #272 instead of #177.

 

This is great thinking. This would be ideal for the basic Charm Person.

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Valid points.

 

Another option would be to replace the feeblemind effect with disable spellcasting (#145) and setting attacks per round to zero. So long as these were applied on a per-second basis via #272 repeating eff (and IDS targeted vs GOODCUTOFF i.e. player charmed creatures) then a charmed creature that breaks the charm due to being attacked could be ready to fight again in a second or two, party members would in this case need zero duration immunity to #272 instead of #177.

 

This seems like a great solution. I don't yet understand the technical side of pulling it off, but if this works as you said, it would achieve exactly the effect that we want. One small thing: if APR is 0, wouldn't a charmed opponent still *try* to attack by just walking up to you and standing there looking silly? If we wish to halt movement as well (to mimic what happens to charmed party members), can we additionally set movement speed to zero?

Edited by spanyam
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. One small thing: if APR is 0, wouldn't a charmed opponent still *try* to attack by just walking up to you and standing there looking silly? If we wish to halt movement as well (to mimic what happens to charmed party members), can we additionally set movement speed to zero?

 

Sure. It would look even worse however, since sprites attempt to move even if MS=0, so it looks as if they're sliding on ice.

I can't believe that out of all SR modifications, Charm has the most posts about it. :(

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. One small thing: if APR is 0, wouldn't a charmed opponent still *try* to attack by just walking up to you and standing there looking silly? If we wish to halt movement as well (to mimic what happens to charmed party members), can we additionally set movement speed to zero?

Sure. It would look even worse however, since sprites attempt to move even if MS=0, so it looks as if they're sliding on ice.

I can't believe that out of all SR modifications, Charm has the most posts about it. :(

 

And Freedom of Movement -spells and effects(Free Action) would not allow you to set this.

Take example of a Monk. The other effects have same like weaknesses.. unless you really work at it, you will likely just do bad things, mostly.

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Sorry, but I don't know, which is the right topic to come up with this bug:

 

In my BW install I ran into this bug the first time, one of my NPC-s was charmed. He turned red, but did nothing serious, didn't attack me, just starred, doing nothing. The enemy, who cast the charm turned green and also didn't do anything. I killed her, and the charmed one's circle started to change from and to red and green. Then i met the next enemy, and without enything, he also changed color to green, but continued to attack me.

 

I think, I read somewhere the BG modding forums about this bug, but I couldn't find it again.

 

I have Spell revisions v3.1 and Lost crossroads installed (from the latter, the Charm person or mammal spell is installed).

 

Do you have any suggestions?

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