Minor suggestions for future versions

[Strontium Dog]

First of all, I wish to thank you for enhancing our Baldur's Gate experience. I have found that too many items are overpowered or just boring or not fitting into the game in terms of realistic gameplay. I am also deeply pleased that you have allowed us to not install any of the items from your mod which we didn't like.

 

I have a minor issue re the soul reaver weapon:- I like your choice re 1 chance of negative level energy drain etc.(and have installed it), but I would like you to allow a nerfed version of the Item upgrade mod's soul reaver. That mod made the already very powerful Soul Reaver+4 to a +6 weapon(with dispel magic on hit etc.), after combining it with Carsomyr. I think it is vital for evil-aligned PCs to be able to wield evil-aligned weapons which are on Carsomyr's level re abilities, so I was wondering if you could include such a weapon for the next Item_Revisions version. I accept that the original Soul Reaver+4 had a too powerful effect(-2 to THACO(automatically?) for every hit it made for 120 seconds), but something nerfed might do the trick(eg:- save vs death or get -2 to THACO for 20 or 30 seconds etc.)

 

Also, I wasn't sure whether to install your version of the boots of speed(+5 to movement-rates, not doubled like in the original), so kept the original item(re doubled movement). I would like to know what the original average movement rate is for each character, so that I can have some idea of how +5 compares to doubling movement-rates.

[Demivrgvs]

Soul Reaver

I have a minor issue re the soul reaver weapon:- I like your choice re 1 chance of negative level energy drain etc.(and have installed it), but I would like you to allow a nerfed version of the Item upgrade mod's soul reaver. That mod made the already very powerful Soul Reaver+4 to a +6 weapon(with dispel magic on hit etc.), after combining it with Carsomyr. I think it is vital for evil-aligned PCs to be able to wield evil-aligned weapons which are on Carsomyr's level re abilities, so I was wondering if you could include such a weapon for the next Item_Revisions version. I accept that the original Soul Reaver+4 had a too powerful effect(-2 to THACO(automatically?) for every hit it made for 120 seconds), but something nerfed might do the trick(eg:- save vs death or get -2 to THACO for 20 or 30 seconds etc.)

Well, there already is an evil version of Carsomyr within IR, the Unholy Reaver. It's only usable by fallen paladins, but I may allow it to be usable by lawful evil warriors if most of you feel it would be appropriate.

 

When in comes to "Carsomyr's power level" I want to be clear, even within IR it's still too powerful. In theory there's a good reason to allow paladins to wield the uber powerful Holy Avengers weapons, which is their code of conduct, but in BG it's not implemented at all (unless you play with Virtue mod which only slightly improves that). Paladins should never run for cover (would never allow himself to use Improved Invisibility or similary "cowardly" buffs), should never retreat (in fact Keldorn wants to face Firkragg even if the party is level 9 and would face sure death), should never use any evil-like equipment (e.g. Ring of Gaxx, Sword of Chaos, or any weapon with poison effects), never come along with evil people, bla bla bla...

 

 

Boots of Speed

Also, I wasn't sure whether to install your version of the boots of speed(+5 to movement-rates, not doubled like in the original), so kept the original item(re doubled movement). I would like to know what the original average movement rate is for each character, so that I can have some idea of how +5 compares to doubling movement-rates.

I think base movement rate is 9, but I'm not 100% sure right now. I don't know if it may interest you, but IR's Boots of Speed have some advantages too, like being able to stack with everything (Haste included) and being usable while under Free Action.

[Shaitan]

Unholy Reaver

IMO I don't see the reason to change it further, but I rarely use it so be my guest.

 

Item Revison 3

Do you need any help Demi, or just more time in your life?

[Strontium Dog]

Well, there already is an evil version of Carsomyr within IR, the Unholy Reaver. It's only usable by fallen paladins, but I may allow it to be usable by lawful evil warriors if most of you feel it would be appropriate.

 

That would be great. Also, the shapeshifter rebalancing components of other mods like BG2Tweaks now give an item for the paws which you have to insert into your character in order to turn your PC into a werewolf. This paw used to be one usable by all classes but now can only be used by druid-shapeshifters(I think I used the problematic refinements mod's shapeshifter component in the past but the bg2Tweak's component in my latest BWP game). What I was wondering is if you could allow a shapeshifter-paw to be usable by all classes? The reason for this is that, in the past, I've always found the werewolf-island-outcome to be highly unrealistic for evil-aligned characters and that an option be there for 1 or more party-members to become werewolves as well. At the moment, I am resigned to waiting until I am of high enough level to get HLAs for my fighter-mage/thieves at which point I can get the "use any items" HLA and use it.

 

When in comes to "Carsomyr's power level" I want to be clear, even within IR it's still too powerful. In theory there's a good reason to allow paladins to wield the uber powerful Holy Avengers weapons, which is their code of conduct, but in BG it's not implemented at all (unless you play with Virtue mod which only slightly improves that). Paladins should never run for cover (would never allow himself to use Improved Invisibility or similary "cowardly" buffs), should never retreat (in fact Keldorn wants to face Firkragg even if the party is level 9 and would face sure death), should never use any evil-like equipment (e.g. Ring of Gaxx, Sword of Chaos, or any weapon with poison effects), never come along with evil people, bla bla bla...

 

Well, I've always found it ridiculous how some players would have paladins in their parties and yet routinely slaughter innocent civilians for their money if they failed to pick their pockets.However, I am playing with 6 characters, all of whom are fighter/mage/thieves or fighter/mage/clerics all, getting triple the amount of XP such characters normally get to make them equal to single-classed PCs re levels, and I have some trouble with defeating the SCSI and II AIs even so -so I'm always looking for weapon to be slightly improved. I figure if your mod can improve Carsomyr to +5, then a slightly improved version of your item's cool Soul Reaver weapon(+5 etc.?) might be an option as well.It's just that the item-upgrade's Soul Reaver+6 is just too powerful to be worth playing with.

 

Carsomyr might be better if nerfed. Does your mod have the dispel magic at a set level like 15th or 20th? That might work. Besides, it's unrealistic for it to match player-levels re gameplay in BWP.

 

 

I think base movement rate is 9, but I'm not 100% sure right now. I don't know if it may interest you, but IR's Boots of Speed have some advantages too, like being able to stack with everything (Haste included) and being usable while under Free Action.

Yes, I'd vaguely guessed it might be 9, but wasn't at all sure. Pity, I didn't read any data re your item being able to stack with other movement-bonuses,otherwise I would not have excluded that component from being installed.

[Strontium Dog]

Another point:- I like your alteration of stat-changing items so that characters can't suddenly go all the way from 9 strength to 19. However, I have a couple of quibbles:- first of all, there is only 1 vanilla dexterity-changing item, I think(gauntlets of dexterity) giving a +2 to dexterity in your mod's version. Since you already give up to +5(?) for those giant-strength belts, +2 seems rather weak by comparison - perhaps +4, instead?

 

Also I think(?) that the stone-giant strength belt now gives +3 to strength. Stone-giants had only 20 strength in AD&D 2nd edition, so a character with 18 strength would have 21 strength with item_rev's stone-giant strength belt. Seems like it ought to be +2 not +3.

[Demivrgvs]

Item Revison 3

Do you need any help Demi, or just more time in your life?

Time unfortunately is my main issue, as you may guess by my very rare appearences here.

 

 

Shapeshifting paws

That would be great. Also, the shapeshifter rebalancing components of other mods like BG2Tweaks now give an item for the paws which you have to insert into your character in order to turn your PC into a werewolf. This paw used to be one usable by all classes but now can only be used by druid-shapeshifters(I think I used the problematic refinements mod's shapeshifter component in the past but the bg2Tweak's component in my latest BWP game). What I was wondering is if you could allow a shapeshifter-paw to be usable by all classes? The reason for this is that, in the past, I've always found the werewolf-island-outcome to be highly unrealistic for evil-aligned characters and that an option be there for 1 or more party-members to become werewolves as well. At the moment, I am resigned to waiting until I am of high enough level to get HLAs for my fighter-mage/thieves at which point I can get the "use any items" HLA and use it.

Ehm...I'd say it's quite out of IR's scope to do something like that.

 

 

Carsomyr

Carsomyr might be better if nerfed. Does your mod have the dispel magic at a set level like 15th or 20th? That might work. Besides, it's unrealistic for it to match player-levels re gameplay in BWP.

That was one of the three possible solutions:

1) make the dispel on-hit use a fixed lvl

2) make the dispel on-hit use paladin's lvl (I'm not 100% sure it would work, but should)

3) make the dispel on-hit allow a save

I've opted for 3), and the same did SCS.

 

 

Stat enhancing items

Another point:- I like your alteration of stat-changing items so that characters can't suddenly go all the way from 9 strength to 19. However, I have a couple of quibbles:- first of all, there is only 1 vanilla dexterity-changing item, I think(gauntlets of dexterity) giving a +2 to dexterity in your mod's version. Since you already give up to +5(?) for those giant-strength belts, +2 seems rather weak by comparison - perhaps +4, instead?

Well, a +4 DEX would be much worse than the old solution imo (e.g. from dex 19 to godly 23 with a BG1 item?). I'm not going to boost those bonuses, but instead I'm going to add a couple of small stat bonuses here and there (e.g. Ring of Lock Picking will have a +1 dex, as per shaitan's suggestion if I'm not wrong ).

 

Also I think(?) that the stone-giant strength belt now gives +3 to strength. Stone-giants had only 20 strength in AD&D 2nd edition, so a character with 18 strength would have 21 strength with item_rev's stone-giant strength belt. Seems like it ought to be +2 not +3.

These belts have been changed for IR V3, look here to see if you like their new version.

[Strontium Dog]

Shapeshifting paws

Ehm...I'd say it's quite out of IR's scope to do something like that.

Well, it was just a thought. Maybe 1 of the 3 mods which enhances the shapeshiter druid does allow all classes to use the paw and change.

 

 

 

 

Stat enhancing items

Well, a +4 DEX would be much worse than the old solution imo (e.g. from dex 19 to godly 23 with a BG1 item?). I'm not going to boost those bonuses, but instead I'm going to add a couple of small stat bonuses here and there (e.g. Ring of Lock Picking will have a +1 dex, as per shaitan's suggestion if I'm not wrong ).

 

Yes, I see what you mean as the while AD&D 1st/2nd edition was made too easy by not allowing dragons/demons to be far stronger than humans/dwarves etc. I mean a dragon with 25 strength as an upper-limit when a person wielding vanilla Crom-Faeyr has 25 strength too, that's just ridiculous. It's just that I view the non-STR-enhancing items such as the vanilla gauntlets of dexterity as being a lot less cheesy than girdles of giant-strength(at 25 dexterity just 3(?) AC points better than with 18 dexterity, plus some benefits re thievery scores)

 

Just had a glance at a few items. IMO, if you're trying to delete the endless regeneration effect of 20 constitution points, then you really ought to keep the troll form of the cloak of the sewers as, otherwise there are very few ways for people to regenerate, forcing endless buying of potions(not too realistic re gameplay).

 

Also, wasn't it your mod(version 2) which had the robes of the (arch?) magi with an effect reducing all opponents' magic resistances(within 10 feet) by 10%, that I see in shadowkeeper? That was cool. Replacing it with a +20% magic resistance effect is, IMO, too powerful, as there are so many magic-resistance-bonus-giving items in vanilla(and other mods) that characters can effectively become immune to all spells(well, fortunately the SCS AI now has hostile mages casting lower resistance but that only reduces MR by c.30% at a time or so at 20th level).

 

I see your arrows of dispel can now bypass the Spell revisions/SCS spell which has protection from normal missiles protecting against magic arrows as well. The belt of inertial barrier etc. are quite good as well. I think I saw your previous Kiithix figurine fix which made it more powerful than the ridiculously inadequate vanilla version but not as overpowered as the improved kithix of the item-upgrade mod.Good work.

 

Lastly, I seem to recall that the cloak of the wolf is a cursed item, where you can't turn back to human form after assuming werewolf shape. Perhaps that could be changed to a non-cursed item? Just a vague thought.

[Demivrgvs]

Stat enhancing items

Yes, I see what you mean as the while AD&D 1st/2nd edition was made too easy by not allowing dragons/demons to be far stronger than humans/dwarves etc. I mean a dragon with 25 strength as an upper-limit when a person wielding vanilla Crom-Faeyr has 25 strength too, that's just ridiculous. It's just that I view the non-STR-enhancing items such as the vanilla gauntlets of dexterity as being a lot less cheesy than girdles of giant-strength(at 25 dexterity just 3(?) AC points better than with 18 dexterity, plus some benefits re thievery scores)

Well, it all depends on who's wearing them, because +2 to DEX can grant up to +2 ranged thac0, +2 AC and +10% to all thief skills at once. They actually do wonders on a character with DEX 15 (you get all bonuses), they are quite good but not outstanding for a char with DEX 16, 17 or 19, but they kinda sucks in case your base DEX is 18. Blame AD&D stats tables.

 

 

Regeneration issue

Just had a glance at a few items. IMO, if you're trying to delete the endless regeneration effect of 20 constitution points, then you really ought to keep the troll form of the cloak of the sewers as, otherwise there are very few ways for people to regenerate, forcing endless buying of potions(not too realistic re gameplay).

No, the issue with CON bonuses is that any item which grants +x to CON heal the character when equipped, and by re-equipping the item multiple times you can fully heal a character (even whee the game is paused ).

 

 

Archmagi Robes

Also, wasn't it your mod(version 2) which had the robes of the (arch?) magi with an effect reducing all opponents' magic resistances(within 10 feet) by 10%, that I see in shadowkeeper? That was cool. Replacing it with a +20% magic resistance effect is, IMO, too powerful, as there are so many magic-resistance-bonus-giving items in vanilla(and other mods) that characters can effectively become immune to all spells(well, fortunately the SCS AI now has hostile mages casting lower resistance but that only reduces MR by c.30% at a time or so at 20th level).

Yep, V2 robes were all identical robes, and the aura-like effect was a my tentative to implement a PnP feature of such robes. Unfortunately aura-like effects cause a lot of issues and thus I restrict them as much as I can (e.g. I love what I did to the Girdle of Inertial Barrier really too much to remove it).

 

Regarding magic resistance and SCS, I believe David uses LR only on sequencers/triggers in order to effectively destroy such defense.

 

P.S We had a HUGE discussion for all robes in the main IR V3 topic (near the end of it), feel free to resurrect it.

 

 

Various

I see your arrows of dispel can now bypass the Spell revisions/SCS spell which has protection from normal missiles protecting against magic arrows as well. The belt of inertial barrier etc. are quite good as well. I think I saw your previous Kiithix figurine fix which made it more powerful than the ridiculously inadequate vanilla version but not as overpowered as the improved kithix of the item-upgrade mod.Good work.

 

 

Cloak of the Wolf

Lastly, I seem to recall that the cloak of the wolf is a cursed item, where you can't turn back to human form after assuming werewolf shape. Perhaps that could be changed to a non-cursed item? Just a vague thought.

I'm quite sure it wasn't cursed, and surely it isn't within IR.

[Shaitan]

Cloak of the Wolf

Not a cursed item in a unmodded game. It wasn't even in BG

 

Cheers

[Strontium Dog]

Stat enhancing items

Well, it all depends on who's wearing them, because +2 to DEX can grant up to +2 ranged thac0, +2 AC and +10% to all thief skills at once. They actually do wonders on a character with DEX 15 (you get all bonuses), they are quite good but not outstanding for a char with DEX 16, 17 or 19, but they kinda sucks in case your base DEX is 18. Blame AD&D stats tables.

 

Oh, I see - yes, AD&D 2nd edition was so broken from the start that I'm surprised how it even got started(I had hear of an attempt to change the BG2 game-engine to an Icewind Dale 2 engine, but it never seems to have gotten anywhere which was a pity as Icewind Dale 2 had a great 3rd edition gameplay(though an awful plot).

Actually, there are now several items I see in shadowkeeper with +2 and above for dexterity due to all the extra item mods I've installed. Of course, the trick is to work out which ones make a game more interesting and which ones are just too overpowered

 

Regeneration issue

No, the issue with CON bonuses is that any item which grants +x to CON heal the character when equipped, and by re-equipping the item multiple times you can fully heal a character (even whee the game is paused ).

 

Oh, I didn't know that. Not that I would use that. I just try to keep 2 characters at 18 constitution and then hope for those +1 CON tomes to raise them to 20 CON so that they effectively rest between areas(makes sense in a way).

 

 

Yep, V2 robes were all identical robes, and the aura-like effect was a my tentative to implement a PnP feature of such robes. Unfortunately aura-like effects cause a lot of issues and thus I restrict them as much as I can (e.g. I love what I did to the Girdle of Inertial Barrier really too much to remove it).

 

Regarding magic resistance and SCS, I believe David uses LR only on sequencers/triggers in order to effectively destroy such defense.

 

P.S We had a HUGE discussion for all robes in the main IR V3 topic (near the end of it), feel free to resurrect it.

 

I'll read that thread. I presume the aura effects can cause a slowdown on a PC. Fortunately my PC is pretty fast. Well, I'm glad that SCS now has effectively dealt with the problem. In the past, a character like Viconia plus a few magic-resistance-giving items effectively became immune to almost all magic bar imprisonment.

 

 

 

Cloak of the Wolf

I'm quite sure it wasn't cursed, and surely it isn't within IR.

Oh. It's the one found in the pirate cave in BG1. Once taken on there's no revert to human form function available.

[Strontium Dog]

My current problem has been that as certain mods have been updated(ie item revisions and spell revisions) some cool components from earlier versions get wiped out in later versions and replaced by something that I don't like. While, in both cases, I can cut out the ones I don't want in the latest version and just keep the good ones, I would love to insert 1 or 2 of the really good ones from a previous version. This means fiddling with the setup file and replacing files with others in key folders before installation. Of course, as the mods get continually updated, this becomes more difficult.

[Mike1072]

My current problem has been that as certain mods have been updated(ie item revisions and spell revisions) some cool components from earlier versions get wiped out in later versions and replaced by something that I don't like. While, in both cases, I can cut out the ones I don't want in the latest version and just keep the good ones, I would love to insert 1 or 2 of the really good ones from a previous version. This means fiddling with the setup file and replacing files with others in key folders before installation. Of course, as the mods get continually updated, this becomes more difficult.

There's nothing we can do to help here. I'd suggest you maintain customised versions of these mods for your personal use.

[Jarno Mikkola]

There's nothing we can do to help here. I'd suggest you maintain customized versions of these mods for your personal use.

Isn't that a kind like saying that he should make a mod for himself that copies the past versions of the old IR's items & SR's spells and then install that after the current version both get installed...