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#1 subtledoctor

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Posted 03 September 2014 - 11:27 AM

Is anyone around who has any authority over S&S? I'm making a mod for BGEE, and since BG2 classics like Divine Remix, Song & Silence, and Sword & Fist are not EE-compatible, I'm I adding some kits.
http://forum.baldurs...s-and-tweaks/p1
I would like to make a few thief and bard kits, but I don't want to violate any copyr

Faiths & Powers: Spell spheres and kit pack for priests and paladins
Might & Guile: Tweaks and kits for warriors and rogues
Scales of Balance: Game tweaks and rule overhauls
NPC_EE: More options for NPCs in BGEE, SoD, & BG2EE


#2 subtledoctor

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Posted 03 September 2014 - 11:38 AM

Is anyone around who has any authority over S&S? I'm making a mod for BGEE, and since BG2 classics like Divine Remix, Song & Silence, and Sword & Fist are not EE-compatible, I'm I adding some kits.
http://forum.baldurs...s-and-tweaks/p1
I would like to make a few thief and bard kits, but I don't want to violate any copyrights. For instance I added a Sharpshooter thief - I feel fine about that because it is in old D&D sourcebooks and I built it from scratch.

I'd like to add the Chorister as well... but even building it from scratch, even changing it's name (Cantor, perhaps), I feel like "bard that can cast some cleric spells as mage spells" kind of steps on the toes of Song & Silence.

I'm looking for a blessing or benediction - as it were - to make sure no one would be offended.

If S&S is to be updated, I would rather not touch bards, and simply point to S&S and recommend that users install it alongside mine. That would be preferable (and frankly, less work!). I only raise the issue because S&S seems dead in the water.

Faiths & Powers: Spell spheres and kit pack for priests and paladins
Might & Guile: Tweaks and kits for warriors and rogues
Scales of Balance: Game tweaks and rule overhauls
NPC_EE: More options for NPCs in BGEE, SoD, & BG2EE


#3 Grammarsalad

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Posted 03 September 2014 - 07:35 PM

I think it's dead.

However, I have seen some mods be resurrected and updated by third parties (i think).

I don't know if they had special permission to do so.

I don't think you will be hurting anybodys feelings if you use or convert this content (i dont think the author(s) have been involved with the community for years). You should absolutely give the original authors credit, however, and if the day comes where they ask you to remove it, you should.

#4 subtledoctor

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Posted 04 September 2014 - 11:56 AM

Hm. Well, I guess here's what I'm gonna do: I'm gonna make my own new bard kit, which has some priest spells it can cast (though, different ones from the S&S picks). I'm also going to go a bit further and learn to edit bard songs, and give my kit song effects that Bless allies, Slow undead (or something like that) and Protect from Evil. Depending on level.

I'm going to call it "Chorister" because I love the name and it's perfect (a trained religious choir singer), and I'm going to give a big shout-out to Song & Silence for the inspiration. And if anyone demands it, I'll change or remove the kit.

The world is on notice.

Faiths & Powers: Spell spheres and kit pack for priests and paladins
Might & Guile: Tweaks and kits for warriors and rogues
Scales of Balance: Game tweaks and rule overhauls
NPC_EE: More options for NPCs in BGEE, SoD, & BG2EE


#5 Grammarsalad

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Posted 04 September 2014 - 12:54 PM

Slow undead...that would be much better than the default turn dead. Thinking of it, it would be nice to have a "change turn effect" opcode...

#6 subtledoctor

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Posted 05 September 2014 - 10:38 AM

After some quick investigating I'm not sure I can Slow undead with the song. I think I can Hold undead, subject to saving throws (probably with bonuses) like the Jester's song. Since there's already a spell for that.

Hold does seem a bit OP though. Slow would be better... maybe I could trigger the Slow effect via an .eff instead of directly from the song, and have the .eff only target undead...? Maybe.

Also a song can only affect allies, or enemies, or both, but whatever group you choose gets all of the effects. So one song can't Bless allies *and* Slow undead. The player will have to choose which song they want to use at any given moment, via an innate ability.

Faiths & Powers: Spell spheres and kit pack for priests and paladins
Might & Guile: Tweaks and kits for warriors and rogues
Scales of Balance: Game tweaks and rule overhauls
NPC_EE: More options for NPCs in BGEE, SoD, & BG2EE


#7 Grammarsalad

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Posted 05 September 2014 - 03:14 PM

After some quick investigating I'm not sure I can Slow undead with the song. I think I can Hold undead, subject to saving throws (probably with bonuses) like the Jester's song. Since there's already a spell for that.

Hold does seem a bit OP though. Slow would be better... maybe I could trigger the Slow effect via an .eff instead of directly from the song, and have the .eff only target undead...? Maybe.

Also a song can only affect allies, or enemies, or both, but whatever group you choose gets all of the effects. So one song can't Bless allies *and* Slow undead. The player will have to choose which song they want to use at any given moment, via an innate ability.


I think it's recursive. I haven't messed with bard songs, but I think you are on the right track. I think you can even target allies and enemies with different effects. Try:

(251) change bard song: reference a spell you create. Target:everybody--i assume this is what you mean by only targeting friends, enemies or both.


Create spell with effects:
(177) use effect file param 1)4 (race) param 2) 108 (ghoul)
Eff file: (40) slow: save as you see fit

(177) use effect file param 1)4 (race) param 2) 115 (skeleton)
Eff file: (40) slow: save ...

(177) repeat for every other undead "race" (maybe there is a more efficient ids reference--say a unique gender?)
V
'''
(177) use effect: param 1) 2 (ea) param 2) 2 (pc) pr 4 (ally--party(?)+charmed/summoned(?)+familiar(?))
Eff file (130) bless

#8 subtledoctor

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Posted 07 September 2014 - 02:58 PM

Wow, good thinking. The Hold Undead spell can target all undead generally, so I assume you can replicate that with an .eff. For now I'm just going with a buffing song - I couldn't even figure out how to switch songs, the "change bard song" opcode works in my CLAB but not in a cast able innate ability.

After I get 1.0 out the door I'll investigate more complicated effects.

Faiths & Powers: Spell spheres and kit pack for priests and paladins
Might & Guile: Tweaks and kits for warriors and rogues
Scales of Balance: Game tweaks and rule overhauls
NPC_EE: More options for NPCs in BGEE, SoD, & BG2EE


#9 subtledoctor

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Posted 08 September 2014 - 04:14 AM

Ah ha! While glancing through an old 2e FR sourcebook I chanced upon a priest kit called Loresinger of Milil, which functions like a cross between priest and bard, and cannot turn undead. Perfect for a BG2 bard kit! So I will make a Loresinger, and no concerns about copyright!

Faiths & Powers: Spell spheres and kit pack for priests and paladins
Might & Guile: Tweaks and kits for warriors and rogues
Scales of Balance: Game tweaks and rule overhauls
NPC_EE: More options for NPCs in BGEE, SoD, & BG2EE


#10 Grammarsalad

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Posted 08 September 2014 - 03:19 PM

Wow, good thinking. The Hold Undead spell can target all undead generally, so I assume you can replicate that with an .eff. For now I'm just going with a buffing song - I couldn't even figure out how to switch songs, the "change bard song" opcode works in my CLAB but not in a cast able innate ability.

After I get 1.0 out the door I'll investigate more complicated effects.


There is an ids that that opcode references that has a category 'undead' and some others.

As for changing bard song innate, I'm interested in this as well. I'll investigate when I have time and will get back to you. (that might be a while though).

#11 Grammarsalad

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Posted 08 September 2014 - 03:36 PM

Also, I can give you an example of 177 in action. I was trying to both 1) change monk animations to thief animations (so they have 2 handed weapon animations) and 2) make monks selectable by non humans.

1 is easy (if you only care about humans) but 2 was proving to be a pain. While I could make the monk selectable by non humans, without exception--male and female--all non human monks used the human male avatar. It must be some kind of default.

Anyway, that obviously wouldn't do. But, I was able to use 177 to give every race gender combo it's correct thief animation ( as an AP_, though I feel confident this strategy could work as AB_--Actually, I'll try to switch it in the clab and see what I get.)

#12 Grammarsalad

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Posted 08 September 2014 - 07:39 PM

Yup, it works.  Well, I didn't test change bardsong (yet), but eff 177 can be activated as special.  I'm fairly sure there is a mod somewhere that allows one to change bardsong by special ability--IWDification?--so that should work too. 

 

I had to make a couple of tweaks.  I'm not sure that they were all necessary: changed target to self ('creature'--don't think this was absolutely necessary, but if it targeted other creatures, the bard could change others' bard songs presumably); gave it icons; changed the level from 0 to 1.  At least one of these last two was necessary (I changed both at the same time--before the change, it didn't work, after it did.)



#13 subtledoctor

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Posted 09 September 2014 - 08:59 AM

Oh yeah change bard song definitely works - there are at least two mods out there that do it. I just couldn't get my innate to work in the 20 minutes I spent trying, and the reason for it not working wasn't obvious, and those twoofs are a bit too complicated for me to follow and emulate (in 20 minutes).

I'm sure I can get it working eventually. But I'd rather have one song that both protects allies (I've even got the PfE twinkling colors working, it's pretty cool) AND Slows undead. I just can't work on it for the next 2-3 weeks because I need to get the other components out the door.

Faiths & Powers: Spell spheres and kit pack for priests and paladins
Might & Guile: Tweaks and kits for warriors and rogues
Scales of Balance: Game tweaks and rule overhauls
NPC_EE: More options for NPCs in BGEE, SoD, & BG2EE


#14 Grammarsalad

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Posted 09 September 2014 - 01:43 PM

Oh yeah change bard song definitely works - there are at least two mods out there that do it. I just couldn't get my innate to work in the 20 minutes I spent trying, and the reason for it not working wasn't obvious, and those twoofs are a bit too complicated for me to follow and emulate (in 20 minutes).

I'm sure I can get it working eventually. But I'd rather have one song that both protects allies (I've even got the PfE twinkling colors working, it's pretty cool) AND Slows undead. I just can't work on it for the next 2-3 weeks because I need to get the other components out the door.

I hear you.  You should be able to build on your existing mods anyway (I'm sure you know that; jsut sayin')



#15 CamDawg

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Posted 15 September 2014 - 06:19 AM

Updating S&S is on my very, very long list of to-do. I don't think it would take much if anyone wants to have a go:

  • Detect EE and adjust item descriptions
  • Place Raoul and update his rumors, if necessary
  • Add Wisp's EE kit extender macro for the kits

There may be more, but that stuff definitely needs to be done.


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