Druid Remix?

[Guest MythicalC]

I'm impressed with the work y'all are doing with this mod, but I admit I'll wait until more of the bugs are sorted out before I give it another go.

 

I was wondering where druids fit into this mix ... lately I've been using TDDsinTDD to give my beloved druid folks a much-needed boost, but like its "big sister," it completely fills up my kit lists so I'd like to do away with it.

 

I've seen a few mentions of this on the board, but I'm wondering if a druid remix of sorts is in the works? (God knows they need it in BG2)...

 

Again, I'm really impressed with the research of this project. Thanks so much!

 

Best,

MythicalC

[Andyr]

We have made lots of progress with regard to bugs and hope to have a new version with less bugs (and more kits) out soon.

 

Druids, at the moment, are not changed by the mod, but it would be a logical extension to make the mod into a Priest Remix for druids too - we'll see what happens. We want to get a decent variety of clerixcs don first, though.

 

Thanks for the kind words!

[SimDing0]

IWD druid abilities plz.

[MythicalChicken]

Cool ... thanks for the info, Andyr. What you're doing with Clerics is ample enough work, I'm sure, but it does make me long for a better druid spell selection and more kit options.

 

I really need to just make the decision to learn this modding stuff ... determined to make the druid stronghold (and the class in general) to not suck.

 

Best,

MythicalChicken

[Rathwellin the Bard]

You might try looking at the REFINEMENTS mod. It totally redoes the HLA system for all classes and adds some pretty interesting stuff for Druids. It also makes changes to druid shapeshifting in general and to the Shapeshifter in particular. Refinements GWW form is incredible.

 

Refinements does nothing for the XP table progression or spell selection and doesn't add new non-HLA stuff.

[Andyr]

I think using Refinements together with Cleric Remix will give some pretty odd results, though.

 

Sim: Yeh, could do.

[Rathwellin the Bard]

This is true.

[Guest Crokus]

I think using Refinements together with Cleric Remix will give some pretty odd results, though.

Exactly what would happen? (I was planning on using them both).

[CamDawg]

The caveat: I've never actually played with Refinements; I've only looked through its code so this is speculation based on my assesment of the code and not actual playing experience.

 

If Cleric Remix is installed over Refinements, everything should work, but clerics will use the HLA tables from the Remix mod. Clerics that dual to thieves will not have access to the hacky 'Use Scrolls' system that Refinements implements.

 

If Refinements is iinstalled over CR, then the Refinements HLAs will be applied for the vanilla, Lathander, Helm, and Talos kits, but not for the other 7. It will also overwrite changes made for the various Protection from Good spells. though the spells will still work. I think the new kits will also still lack access to the 'Use Scrolls' system that Refinements uses.

 

The bigger problem is that the ideas behind the two mods conflict--Refinements wishes to "rebalance" and "improve" HLA tables, and Cleric Remix wants to implement HLA tables based on the deity and sphere restrictions. Finding middle ground between those two viewpoints would be difficult at best.

[Guest Crokus]

Well, I guess its not that bad. Since I like the refinements HLA tables and want Viconia to get the new shar kit I'll install them both after my next clean install. Hopefully nothing bad will happen...

[Littiz]

If Cleric Remix is installed over Refinements, everything should work, but clerics will use the HLA tables from the Remix mod. Clerics that dual to thieves will not have access to the hacky 'Use Scrolls' system that Refinements implements.

"Hacky"?

I'd say smart

It's true anyway... and the additional clerical kits will probably be able to use mage scrolls even without dualling to anything...

 

Until Version 2, that is. We have already fixed this for the Selune, Shar and Tempus kits, the code is already present in our Alpha build for Version 2, so that they will be fully integrable in our system.

 

The bigger problem is that the ideas behind the two mods conflict--Refinements wishes to "rebalance" and "improve" HLA tables, and Cleric Remix wants to implement HLA tables based on the deity and sphere restrictions. Finding middle ground between those two viewpoints would be difficult at best.

Well, yes and no.

For us, in a game where monks get the fighter HLA table, a revision of the whole system gets the priority. Anyway, the original cleric kits gain differentiated tables even in Refinements (ex: Lathander priests get Guardian Angel in addition to the new generic clerical stuff), so we might just try to cooperate for the cleric part, if there's interest and if it's possible to find an agreement, of course

 

@Crokus:

Don't know if you can wait that much (at least two months, I'd say), but Version 2 will solve a lot of compatibility issues, other than providing a *MUCH* better monk table (it has become my favourite one!) and several other additions and bugfixes

[Domi]

Let us NOT divert from Druids here. I add my vote to "please, consider druids for CR!" as a great druidic fan and a non-ToB player I'd gladly volounteer at least ideas, if not actual labour if Druid Remix is to be started and Druid Stronghold re-done, for I swear from all strongholds it needs it the most!

[Littiz]

Well, we've been "quoted", so at least allow me to reply and make precisations, will you?

 

Besides, Refinements did make a lot for druids already, so it's another field where we might be wanting some collaboration/avoid clashes.

Otherwise, I'll just take my leave and that's it.

 

These forums do seem a little more "closed" to the public than the ones I'm used to.

[Domi]

I am sorry if it sounded unrespectful of your work, but Refinment always sounded like a ToB oriented mod, and having a huge scope. I am more interested in a narrower, more simple application that will improve druid role-playing experience for BG1 Ie I want what CR did for clerics, but ofr druids

[CamDawg]

Let me try to address the salient points before the thread completely loses all usefulness whatsoever.

 

If Cleric Remix is installed over Refinements, everything should work, but clerics will use the HLA tables from the Remix mod. Clerics that dual to thieves will not have access to the hacky 'Use Scrolls' system that Refinements implements.

"Hacky"?

I'd say smart

I meant hacky in the sense of having to use a series of shadow kits to implement it, not to denigrate the work or imply that it was somehow poorly done. It's probably the only way it could be done.

 

It's true anyway... and the additional clerical kits will probably be able to use mage scrolls even without dualling to anything...

 

Until Version 2, that is. We have already fixed this for the Selune, Shar and Tempus kits, the code is already present in our Alpha build for Version 2, so that they will be fully integrable in our system.

Fixed as in the dualclass issue, the HLA tables, or both?

 

The bigger problem is that the ideas behind the two mods conflict--Refinements wishes to "rebalance" and "improve" HLA tables, and Cleric Remix wants to implement HLA tables based on the deity and sphere restrictions. Finding middle ground between those two viewpoints would be difficult at best.

Well, yes and no.

For us, in a game where monks get the fighter HLA table, a revision of the whole system gets the priority. Anyway, the original cleric kits gain differentiated tables even in Refinements (ex: Lathander priests get Guardian Angel in addition to the new generic clerical stuff), so we might just try to cooperate for the cleric part, if there's interest and if it's possible to find an agreement, of course

What I tried to express, poorly, was that the kits in CR derive their uniquity from the innates available and their sphere restrictions more than anything. The HLAs are treated as just another batch of spells (albeit quest level), subject to the same sphere restrictions as those from levels 1 to 7. Refinements, as I understand it, implements unique HLA tables in their entirety based on the specific class/kit. This is where the two approaches clash, as CR treats HLAs in general as quest-level spells, which makes them subject only to spell sphere restrictions. So any HLA implemented is available to all kits, if their sphere allows it. It's possible I may be misunderstanding Refinements' approach as well.

 

As you say, though, collaboration solves all.

 

Let us NOT divert from Druids here. I add my vote to "please, consider druids for CR!" as a great druidic fan and a non-ToB player I'd gladly volounteer at least ideas, if not actual labour if Druid Remix is to be started and Druid Stronghold re-done, for I swear from all strongholds it needs it the most! 

We are--or better stated, Andyr is--already beginning work on the other divine spellcasters. Druids will be next, due to interest, and at some (far in the future) point I'd like to tackle rangers and paladins. However, none of this will really have any serious work commenced until we get a stable, bug-free v1 out the door. A revamped druid stronghold is really something that I, personally, don't really see happening until much, much later--if at all. I view it as beyond the scope of the mod, though my co-authors may disagree and overrule me.

 

Well, we've been "quoted", so at least allow me to reply and make precisations, will you?

 

Besides, Refinements did make a lot for druids already, so it's another field where we might be wanting some collaboration/avoid clashes.

Otherwise, I'll just take my leave and that's it.

 

These forums do seem a little more "closed" to the public than the ones I'm used to.

I am very curious as to what you mean by these comments--Cleric Remix has been based in large part on the requests of the community, from the original call for kit requests and suggestions right on down the line. There's nothing I love more than feedback, suggestions, and most of all criticism--it keeps the cycle of improvment rolling. I'd rather folks show up and say 'this sucks, try X' rather than 'omg best mod evar.' The former leads to improvement, the latter leads to complacency and poor modding. If you feel that you have suggestions to improve the mod, the forums, or anything else, I would love to hear them.