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#16 Buck Naked

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Posted 22 June 2005 - 11:51 AM

Okay, so why not at least change Valygar's racial enemy from golem to lich...?

Besides, it's not like that family blade would be all that effective against most golems, anyway.... :)

#17 Idobek

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Posted 22 June 2005 - 12:24 PM

Okay, so why not at least change Valygar's racial enemy from golem to lich...?

Now I like that idea. I might even steal it.
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#18 Domi

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Posted 22 June 2005 - 12:35 PM

A good one for Z.Freud: So, Valygar Corthala, your racial enemy is your mother's latest incarnation on the Material Plane? And you have killed her? And your father whom she turned into a zombie? Uh-huh... Do you see a peculiar if faint connection? Do you hate her or not? I think he does not hate her though, I think it is rather an open quarel that never get resolved.

Edited by Domi, 22 June 2005 - 12:37 PM.

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#19 Orions_Stardom

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Posted 22 June 2005 - 03:49 PM

Valygar has a fair amount of 'rangering' background in the game: he has a cabin in the iwlderness and it is there where he is hiding (as opposite to staying in the city). He is definetly well-aquainted with the local rangering populuce, since they protect him as one of their own. Stalker kit also gives a leeway there, saying that rangers of that kit are well accustomed in the cities. In a conversation with Mazzy Valygar speaks rather wistfully about stealth skills. His scouting background was already previously mentioned. If he wants to travel anywhere, it is Neverwinter as opposiute to Waterdeep as he mentions to Mazzy (ie wilder region vs civilized region). He speaks of his father as of a man with a merry laughter and love of the wilderness - and who but a ranger or druid would put this into a convo about his dear dead father? He is also quite terrified by his parents turning undead - a non-direct pointer on the 'nature' connection.

But what background there is to make him a Kensai? As far as we know he had never traveled East or anywhere beside Amn for that matter.  Even his katana is not *his* per se - it is a hereditary blade that could have been aquired as a curio by one of his mage-anscestors who played around with enchanting it. His hatred of magic gives a reasonable grounds to make him into a Wizard Slayer imo, but a master of the sword that spends his whole life perfecting his swordplay? He seems to be too guarded of a character for that. Plus he comes from a traditional noble family; if he would have gotten any training at all in sword play in his youth it would have been traditional style, ie heavy armor; and his military training would be all about sneaking around, cutting thorats quietly if he has to, rather than about flashy one on one mortal combats.

Uhm, sorry about the rant. I am sort of attached to Valygar and all things valygarish.

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Now that is the type of justification I wish I could do. :)
Unless anyone has objections, as of the next release Valygar will no longer be turned into a kensai.

For the original suggestion of rebalancing his armour, I think that is more suited to an item mod than an NPC mod.

And for changing his racial enemy, what makes lich more suitable than golem?

#20 Fallen_Demon

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Posted 22 June 2005 - 09:14 PM

Valygar has a fair amount of 'rangering' background in the game: he has a cabin in the iwlderness and it is there where he is hiding (as opposite to staying in the city). He is definetly well-aquainted with the local rangering populuce, since they protect him as one of their own. Stalker kit also gives a leeway there, saying that rangers of that kit are well accustomed in the cities. In a conversation with Mazzy Valygar speaks rather wistfully about stealth skills. His scouting background was already previously mentioned. If he wants to travel anywhere, it is Neverwinter as opposiute to Waterdeep as he mentions to Mazzy (ie wilder region vs civilized region). He speaks of his father as of a man with a merry laughter and love of the wilderness - and who but a ranger or druid would put this into a convo about his dear dead father? He is also quite terrified by his parents turning undead - a non-direct pointer on the 'nature' connection.

But what background there is to make him a Kensai? As far as we know he had never traveled East or anywhere beside Amn for that matter.  Even his katana is not *his* per se - it is a hereditary blade that could have been aquired as a curio by one of his mage-anscestors who played around with enchanting it. His hatred of magic gives a reasonable grounds to make him into a Wizard Slayer imo, but a master of the sword that spends his whole life perfecting his swordplay? He seems to be too guarded of a character for that. Plus he comes from a traditional noble family; if he would have gotten any training at all in sword play in his youth it would have been traditional style, ie heavy armor; and his military training would be all about sneaking around, cutting thorats quietly if he has to, rather than about flashy one on one mortal combats.

Uhm, sorry about the rant. I am sort of attached to Valygar and all things valygarish.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Plus, even if one was to base Valygar's class/kit on his starting equipment, he comes with armor (iirc kensais can't wear armor)

#21 Idobek

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Posted 23 June 2005 - 12:22 AM

A good one for Z.Freud: So, Valygar Corthala, your racial enemy is your mother's latest incarnation on the Material Plane? And you have killed her? And your father whom she turned into a zombie? Uh-huh... Do you see a peculiar if faint connection? Do you hate her or not? I think he does not hate her though, I think it is rather an open quarel that never get resolved.

Not his mother, perhaps, but all other liches? Yes, I think he might have an issue with them. I feel his mother being a lich enforces the argument for them to be his racial enemy. I see it as an extension of his strained relationship with magic.
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#22 jester

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Posted 23 June 2005 - 01:27 AM

I agree. A racial enemy should be something from the background story of the character and not some cheap plot giveaway.

BG Minsc: Racial enemy: gnolls -> BG2 vampires aha!!
Valygar Golems??? for a ranger you would think there are a lot of creatures to fight out there. The only reason I find remotely rewarding is the one that mage often rely on golems as bodyguards, but still it is just too obvious. :)

#23 Domi

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Posted 23 June 2005 - 06:01 AM

I'd say that he dares not to hate his mother so he tries to destroy *magical constructs* attempting to save the souless 'victims' of the mages (the same way he killed his father (who was made into a zombie)); Lavok is also a lich though, so it is concievable that in the anticipation of his return and confrontation Valygar studied the liches and their techniques, thus making them into his 'preferred prey' or 'racial enemy'. Hence, I see both as justified.
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#24 Andyr

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Posted 23 June 2005 - 06:36 AM

Valygar's mother is a lich?
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#25 Domi

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Posted 23 June 2005 - 07:04 AM

It is not spelled out per se, Valygar says that Magdelen (spelling?) 'turned into a powerful undead'/'joined my father in the undeath'. It is usually concluded that she turned into a lich.

Edited by Domi, 23 June 2005 - 07:05 AM.

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#26 Drew

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Posted 25 June 2005 - 10:11 PM

I used to think Valygar should be a wizard slayer and that his racial enemy should be a lich, too. I changed my mind when I asked myself when Valygar really started to hate magic. Was it before or after his mother and father became undead and he had to kill them? Sure, he probably hated magic before then as well but I doubt it was as much as he did at the point he meets the PC. Catching a wizard with his pants down is a pretty good way to kill him so he's already a pretty efficient wizard slayer and when he had to kill his parents he would have already selected his racial enemy so there's really no reason to change it, imho.
I would like to see Valygar lose the ability to cast arcane spells. It's not that he shouldn't be able to cast them; he is a stalker after all. I just think that Valygar would probably refuse to memorise and cast arcane spells and I don't think that I should have to roleplay Valygar. If casting arcane spells is out of character for him then I shouldn't be able to make him do it. Just my 2 cents though!

Edited by Drew, 25 June 2005 - 10:22 PM.


#27 Moongaze

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Posted 27 June 2005 - 12:21 PM

Don't be like that. You posted your ideas and your arguments for them. We posted our arguements against. This is what a discussion board is for. Also notice that nobody has yet disagreed that something has to be done with Anomen. Including myself and I have a mod that tries to correct this.

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#28 Idobek

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Posted 27 June 2005 - 12:30 PM

he would have already selected his racial enemy

I would prefer to think that a ranger's racial enemy selects them. So, gnolls became Minsc's racial enemy when they kidnapped his witch and liches became Valygar's racial enemy following his mothers conversion.
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#29 Efreet

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Posted 29 June 2005 - 03:27 AM

Lavok isn't a lich. From the story, it seems he wanted to live forever while remaining human so instead he developed some power to assimilate his family members and renew his body.

#30 Drew

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Posted 30 June 2005 - 08:49 PM

Rangers don't change racial enemies in 2e. Minsc was given a new racial enemy in BG2, but they also raised his stats. I would lump the changed racial enemy in with his stat increases. Bioware just wanted to make him more effective in combat.

Edited by Drew, 30 June 2005 - 08:54 PM.




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