List of continuous EET characters

[Blash2]

Hello everybody,

as someone might have guessed, I'm planning to do a complete EET run with the same party. I'm not very sure, thought, about which charaters stay the same through the whole run. I mean you start with BGEE and develop them until the end of BG2EE without discontinuity.

Could we make a list of such characters? I'm referring to "stock" ones and ones provided by mods that grant them continuity.

 

I'll start with the ones I know for sure:

 

- Charname

- Imoen

- Sandrah

 

These ones not:

 

- Khalid

- Dynaheir

 

There are many BG2EE NPC mods that bring back BGEE characters, like Yeslick, Kivan, etc., but I'm not sure whether they create a new character in BG2 or use the one you bring over from BGEE.

 

I'll update these lists as your answers come

Edited July 24, 2017 by Blash2

[Roxanne]

Basically you can put any vanilla NPC with an original BG1 AND BG2 contents to your list. What makes them continuous is the fact that you had them in party in BG1. Even Imoen is not continuous if she was never in your BG1 party and Sandrah never appears in BG2 if you did not have her before.

 

If you pick up any NPC for the first time while in BG2 part and you never had that NPC in your BG1 party, you will always get the BG2 incarnation of that NPC.

 

For BG2EE NPC mods that bring back BGEE characters, like Yeslick, Kivan - those are not continuous.

 

NPCs you never had in BG1 or BG2 or those who have died cannot be summoned by Fate Spirit in ToB.

 

To clarify - For a continuous character as described above, it is enough to have been in your BG1 party for any amount of time, it is NOT necessary to have them in your final BG1 or SoD party (except Sandrah but that is specific mod design.) The EET uses the *Been In Party* flag of the creature to determine that. This means you can have much more continuous characters than the final 5 if you do a lot of rotation in BG1.

Edited July 24, 2017 by Roxanne

[Tario]

Well yes, but he just wanted to make a list of characters that are continous with them being picked up in the first game then they can appear in the next with mods or without.

[K4thos]

Relevant topic: http://gibberlings3.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=28495&do=findComment&comment=250392

 

From BG1 up to the end of ToB:
Dorn
Edwin
Imoen (stays out of party during SoD since that's how Beamdog implemented her)
Jaheira
Minsc
Neera
Rasaad
Viconia

Up to the end of SoD:
Baeloth
Dynaheir
Khalid
Safana
SharTeel (requires SharTeel NPC mod for SoD, otherwise leaves after first SoD dungeon)

Up to the end of SoD first Dungeon:
Ajantis
Alora
Branwen
Coran
Eldoth
Faldorn
Garrick
Kagain
Kivan
Montaron
Quayle
Skie
Tiax
Xan
Xzar
Yeslick

SoD only:
Corwin
Glint
M'Khiin
Voghiln

 

Obviously all BG2 NPCs are also valid for ToB.

As for the mods I'm only aware about:
- Sandrah (from BG1 to the end of ToB)
- Sirene (from BG1 to the end of ToB)
- SharTeel (from BG1 to the end of SoD)

I'm planning to help Lava implement full continuity for Verr'sza (once BG2 version of this NPC is finished)

 

Other mods use different DV for each game, even when they add content to vanilla NPCs, so they are spawning new versions of CRE files.

Edited July 24, 2017 by K4thos

[Blash2]

As I feared.. Since you, K4thos, pointed out that moving a custom party to Irenicus dungeon would create plot related problems (since the game assumes that the canon party is captured), is there any way for EET to do something like what follows?

 

- You play with Coran and Xan, for example;
- At the end of SoD first dungeon you are separated;
- You install Coran BG2 mod and Xan BG2 mod, that make available these two characters beyond the first game;
- You encounter again these two characters where the mod authors has put them in BG2;
- At the time of joining, EET checks if characters with the same name have been in party, and if the answer is "yes", recovers the last version of them you used, so you get the exact same characters, exactly as you left them.

 

This would allow to respect the plot AND to grant real continuity.. otherwise one would be limited to vanilla characters and two or three more (I don't like the idea of seeing character development reset).

I am not a modder, but this solution would seem to me quite easy to implement, but correct me if I'm wrong.

[Roxanne]

As I feared.. Since you, K4thos, pointed out that moving a custom party to Irenicus dungeon would create plot related problems (since the game assumes that the canon party is captured), is there any way for EET to do something like what follows?

 

- You play with Coran and Xan, for example;

- At the end of SoD first dungeon you are separated;

- You install Coran BG2 mod and Xan BG2 mod, that make available these two characters beyond the first game;

- You encounter again these two characters where the mod authors has put them in BG2;

- At the time of joining, EET checks if characters with the same name have been in party, and if the answer is "yes", recovers the last version of them you used, so you get the exact same characters, exactly as you left them.

 

This would allow to respect the plot AND to grant real continuity.. otherwise one would be limited to vanilla characters and two or three more (I don't like the idea of seeing character development reset).

I am not a modder, but this solution would seem to me quite easy to implement, but correct me if I'm wrong.

That is not easily possible. Jastey has made that attempt for her Ajantis mod without success (the work required and the testing is just too much). There is one thing in an NPC you cannot change. This is the *script name*. Two creatures with different script names are two different cretures regardless of what the *visible* name says. There is nothing EET can do here. The only possible way is to re-write the BG2 mods in the way that they do not create new creatures but a BG2 version of the BG1 character - this spawns in BG2 for the case the NPC was not in the earlier party, otherwise the BG1 NPC is continued.

You see, it is possible - it requires some work from modmakers (who may long have gone) - but it is out of scope for EET itself.

Edited July 25, 2017 by Roxanne

[jastey]

As Roxanne said, it is not easy to implement. Not for already existing NPC mods. I am working on Ajantis BGII to make him continuous storywise, i.e. he remembers what happened in BG1. This was enough work as it is. He won't have the same stats. To unify this, I would have to recode half of the mod, that is out of the question. I also started working on Gavin to do the same, but I cancelled it. Just to make Gavin conituous story wise means I'd have to untwine all the reply options Gavin BGII offers at the first meeting - romance yes, no, friendship yes, no, some more romancd related things ring yes, no etcpp. I would have to rewrite the whole meeting dialogue, and some more. It's not my mod, so that's out of the question. And I would have to unify the scripting names for Gavin in BG1 and BGII, which can't be done automatically. And then there is the crossmod that uses the old BGII script name etcpp. Too much work, too little benefit - and too little playtesters. Everyone expects bug free mods, but only a few volunteer to playtest nowadays.

 

As for new mod NPCs, yes, it's not more work than making it two, and I can only recommend to modders to design their NPCs as one package for BG1-SoD-BGII. And yet, you have to keep in mind that EET isn't only the continuous playthrough, but also offers the possibility to start the game with BGII, or ToB. A mod NPC has to take this into account, as well.

[Blash2]

Ok, I think I understand.

 

So, let's talk about the following scenario:

 

- My BG1 party is, for example: Charname, Imoen, Minsc, Yeslick, Xan and Finch;

- I don't install ANY mod that brings vanilla BG1 characters, or characters introduced by mods in BG1, to BG2;

- At the end of SoD first dungeon, I'm separated from some party members (for example Yeslick, Xan and Finch);
- Since EET grants one single world with various areas, instead of letting these party members simply disappear for good, picks them and moves them to the Friendly Arm Inn (i.e. stores their .CRE files and makes them spawn there?);
- When I'm out of Irenicus Dungeon, I travel to the Friendly Arm Inn and recover my former party members, exactly as I left them.

 

It should be technically possible, am I wrong?

Edited July 26, 2017 by Blash2

[Roxanne]

Ok, I think I understand.

 

So, let's talk about the following scenario:

 

- My BG1 party is, for example: Charname, Imoen, Minsc, Yeslick, Xan and Finch;

- I don't install ANY mod that brings vanilla BG1 characters, or characters introduced by mods in BG1, to BG2;

- At the end of SoD first dungeon, I'm separated from some party members (for example Yeslick, Xan and Finch);

- Since EET grants one single world with various areas, instead of letting these party members simply disappear for good, picks them and moves them to the Friendly Arm Inn (i.e. stores their .CRE files and makes them spawn there?);

- When I'm out of Irenicus Dungeon, I travel to the Friendly Arm Inn and recover my former party members, exactly as I left them.

 

It should be technically possible, am I wrong?

Yes.

The *disappeared* NPCs (if not dead) still are stored in your savegame in the last incarnation you had. You can make them reappear whereever you want. Only thing is, if you pick up e.g. Finch at FAI, she has no BG2 contents at all, she may give you some BG1 lines or nothing at all. You can have a cleric in your party but without content.

 

All you need is something like that in BG2301.bcs (Friendly Arm inside main room):

IF
Global("FinchImport","BG2301",0)
BeenInParty("sufinch")  
GlobalGT("chapter","GLOBAL",12)
!StateCheck("sufinch",STATE_REALLY_DEAD)
THEN
RESPONSE #100
ActionOverride("sufinch",SetDialog("SUFINCHP"))
MoveGlobal("bg2301","sufinch",[775.662]) 
SetGlobal("FinchImport","BG2301",1)
Continue()
END

But of course this is pure crap...

Edited July 26, 2017 by Roxanne

[Blash2]

Pure crap, but still the only way to go on with the same characters, right?

When you talk about BG2 content, what do you mean exactly? Banters? Comments from the NPC about what's happening?

[Roxanne]

Pure crap, but still the only way to go on with the same characters, right?

When you talk about BG2 content, what do you mean exactly? Banters? Comments from the NPC about what's happening?

When I say content, I mean everything that sets your NPC apart from pure canon fodder for your fights - I talk about *character* as opposed to *stooge* (aka IWD-NPC or your self-created muliplayer troop).

[Blash2]

Yes, Roxanne, I get it. But being able to bring on my party for the whole EET run is for me the main reason to use EET.. this is the real "continuity". I want to see my characters grow as I shape them..

Anyway, I would use Charname, Imoen, Sandrah, Coran and some mage I still have to choose, plus one free slot for quest-related NPCs, so there would be only two "cannon fodders"

I am an RPG oriented player, so no need to point out the importance of character depth with me

[bob_veng]

(1) Just to make Gavin conituous story wise means I'd have to untwine all the reply options Gavin BGII offers at the first meeting - romance yes, no, friendship yes, no, some more romancd related things ring yes, no etcpp. I would have to rewrite the whole meeting dialogue, and some more. It's not my mod, so that's out of the question.

 

(2) And I would have to unify the scripting names for Gavin in BG1 and BGII, which can't be done automatically. And then there is the crossmod that uses the old BGII script name etcpp.

 

what do you think about skipping the dialogue/story continuity, e.g. simply not doing (1), and only going with the creature continuity? why can't it be done automatically? by automatically i mean "find and replace"

same with ajantis and other well known BG1-NPC-in-BG2 mods

 

just creature continuity would be a great thing for EET. the tome bonuses would stick, pips, skills, spells, experience, fallen status, death state (if possible)...

 

afterwards, gradually, maybe, dialogue/story continuity can be improved...dialogue continuity isn't exactly amazing with vanilla (EE included) characters either. there's no need to impose higher standards on mods

[jastey]

Gavin has the advantage of being a mod for BG1, too, meaning unifying the script variables wouldn't mean to tamper with original game content + no fear of other mods adding unwanted content at unplanned places, so it's worth the idea. With "not automatically" I meant that I never do transformations like that automatically, it's scary as hell. In theory, the script name should be used in quotation marks so doing a mass replace should be quite save (unless it's also used in hidden places like some spells for whatever reason). Would leave the spawning of Gavin in SoA, which is, as far as I recall, at only one place in area script (and not through cutscenes like Ajantis).

Then there are details to be considered: Even EET offers the possibility to start a new SoA game so a BGII-mod-cre is still needed. The mod is compatible with all other BGII games, too, so it would mean either different spawning scripts for different games or the EET variable "NEWGAME_SOA" would have to make sense for BGII(:EE), as well.

 

And as I said, so far the crossmod banter pack uses the BGII script variable for Gavin crossmod. This mod would have to be updated, as well, or Gavin would be without crossmod banters in EET. (And about now I am ready to run, screaming. Not that I'd not be ready to put work into this. It's just that I have such a long, long list of things I want to finish, as well. And it's not like there is a bunch of people waiting for continuous Gavin, is there? Great as the mod is, it was hard enough to find playtesters for the EE versions I put up.)

[Blash2]

 

(1) Just to make Gavin conituous story wise means I'd have to untwine all the reply options Gavin BGII offers at the first meeting - romance yes, no, friendship yes, no, some more romancd related things ring yes, no etcpp. I would have to rewrite the whole meeting dialogue, and some more. It's not my mod, so that's out of the question.

 

(2) And I would have to unify the scripting names for Gavin in BG1 and BGII, which can't be done automatically. And then there is the crossmod that uses the old BGII script name etcpp.

 

what do you think about skipping the dialogue/story continuity, e.g. simply not doing (1), and only going with the creature continuity? why can't it be done automatically? by automatically i mean "find and replace"

same with ajantis and other well known BG1-NPC-in-BG2 mods

 

just creature continuity would be a great thing for EET. the tome bonuses would stick, pips, skills, spells, experience, fallen status, death state (if possible)...

 

afterwards, gradually, maybe, dialogue/story continuity can be improved...dialogue continuity isn't exactly amazing with vanilla (EE included) characters either. there's no need to impose higher standards on mods

 

 

Yes, I completely agree, that's exactly what I was saying

 

K4thos, would it be possible to implement this solution in EET? An option that would sound like "Move unsupported BG2 characters to Friendly Arm Inn after SoD separation", that can be chosen from BWS for example. Maybe with just a little standard dialogue for rejoining.