Elemental Damage & Enhancement Bonus

[DrAzTiK]

- Stonefire, Frostreaver, Varscona, and the like rely only on this enhancement bonus to be appealing against many weapons with abilities like stun, blind, slow, poison, and so on. Wouldn't these wepons be discarded too soon because of their lack of appeal?

 

For axes :

 

For StoneFire and Frotreaver : There is not many axes in SOA so surely not .

Maybe it could be nice to implent a nice Axe +3 : maybe boost Stonefire and set it later in game ( stonefire allow to beat troll to easily in early game, Dearnise is not a challenge at all) In vanilla, Korgan is always with Stone Fire from begining to Irenicus in my party coz no other Axe+3 appealing.

 

About axes who returns to the wielder's hand instantly : it is already nice/cheated to be able use a weapon in two mod (not only for bersekers).... A warrior with only ONE Grandmastery is as powerfull in mele/ranged fights... So this items don't need 1D6 elemantal damages and don't need to be too powerfull imo.

 

 

Varscona :

 

If it is not a early weapon in BG2, maybe 1d6 is ok .

[DrAzTiK]

Would you trade any of them with only 2.5 points of damage

Yes. Imo it's fair... : +10% critical hit = more or less +2 or +3 damage by hit no ? for a warrior who is doing +20 or +30 damages of course. ( and not all fighters do 20 or 30 damages...)

Imo it's fair with +1AC, +1 save etc... Hey 2.5 is not bad at all ! ! ! ! ! ! ! !

 

 

ps: i was afraid you don't see this post lol

[Jarno Mikkola]

- examples of +1 enhancement bonus are: +1 to all saves (or +3 vs one type), +1 to AC, +5% magic resistance, +5% physical resistance, +20% resistance vs one element, +3 to attack rolls, +10% chance to score critical hits, ... Would you trade any of them with only 2.5 points of damage?

How can you justify such a thing? Shouldn't the "or +4 vs one type", after all it's the same as +1 to all 4 types of magic saves. The +5% magic resistance goes badly with the +5% physical resistance as that's 3 types of resistances(slashing, piercing,missile and crushing) at least.

 

Of course ...

[Salk]

As BGT player, I would warmly recommend changing the elemental damage for Varscona.

 

I tend to not like finding the same items in both BG1 and BG2.

 

More, if it was my choice, there would not be any such comebacks!

 

Since Varscona is one of the early powerful magic weapons the party finds, 1D6 of extra elemental damage would be really too much.

 

The "vanilla" Varscona deals in fact only 1 extra point of cold damage. 1D4 is already a big improvement. 1D6 becomes unacceptable.

 

I know that not all IR players are BGT players but I know that there are many.

[Salk]

Anyway the main fault is mine, I should have decided to leave much more things for V3 instead of trying to put everything into a V2.

 

I do believe you were right instead!

 

If we look at the time intervals most mods are updated at (if they are updated at all!), IR and SR seem to shine in this respect. Plus, you and mike provide also hotfixes, which is always an excellent way to make the wait for the next version more bearable (mostly when it comes down to bugs).

 

I really don't think any player could complain in the least.

 

Keep it up, Demivrgvs!

[Demivrgvs]

For StoneFire and Frotreaver : There is not many axes in SOA so surely not .

Maybe it could be nice to implent a nice Axe +3 : maybe boost Stonefire and set it later in game ( stonefire allow to beat troll to easily in early game, Dearnise is not a challenge at all) In vanilla, Korgan is always with Stone Fire from begining to Irenicus in my party coz no other Axe+3 appealing.

Yeah, I was dealing too with this issue...there are two +3 enchanted throwing axes, while the only battleaxe +3 is found quite late in the Watcher's Keep.

 

Furthermore I'd like to allow Bernard to sell "only" +1 enchanted weapons (e.g. Blade of Roses and Sword of Flame).

 

About axes who returns to the wielder's hand instantly : it is already nice/cheated to be able use a weapon in two mod (not only for bersekers).... A warrior with only ONE Grandmastery is as powerfull in mele/ranged fights... So this items don't need 1D6 elemantal damages and don't need to be too powerfull imo.

This is a good example of why working on IR and pleasing everyone is an extremely difficult task: you praise the ability of having a melee and ranged weapon in one, while instead another player recently stated that such a thing is completely pointless (speaking of IR's throwing spear, Halcyon)

 

- examples of +1 enhancement bonus are: +1 to all saves (or +3 vs one type), +1 to AC, +5% magic resistance, +5% physical resistance, +20% resistance vs one element, +3 to attack rolls, +10% chance to score critical hits, ... Would you trade any of them with only 2.5 points of damage?

How can you justify such a thing? Shouldn't the "or +4 vs one type", after all it's the same as +1 to all 4 types of magic saves. The +5% magic resistance goes badly with the +5% physical resistance as that's 3 types of resistances(slashing, piercing,missile and crushing) at least.

Actually there are 5 type of saves not 4 (death, poly, wand, breath, spell) and 4 type of physical resistance (why have you removed missile? Any ranged or throwing weapon deals missile damage). That being said:

 

- saves vs. poly and wand are extremely rare, and breath too unless you play with SR. It's already slightly better a +3 to save vs. death than +1 to all imo, it allows a weak character like a wizard to quickly increase his worst save, and a strong character like a fighter to become almost unassailable by death magic

 

- physical resistance comes into effect a lot more often than magic resistance. A warrior can hit a target up to 3-4 times per round (without considering Haste and Whirlwind), spellcasters use more threatening attacks but are limited to one spell per round (without considering Improved Alacrity). Another difference is that each and every time a physical attack affect the target Physical Resistance reduces the damage by a %, instead Magic Resistance comes into effect only a % of the times (though when it applies it completely negates the effect).

[Jarno Mikkola]

But here is a thought to reconsider... double the money and combine few of those.

1) +1 to all saves (or +5 vs one type of save) AND +1 to AC. (is one +1 enhancement bonus)

2) +10% magic resistance.(or +10% to Magic damage resistance)

3) +5% to all physical resistances(or 20% to any one of them).

4) +10% chance to score critical hits.

5) +3 to attack rolls.

6) +10% to all elemental resistances(or 40% resistance vs one element).

7) +1dX one type of Elemental damage, or elemental spell with save vs. X with -(X being weapons over all enchantment level).

8) +1 to attack rolls, +1 to damage, +1 to speed AND +1 to enchantment level.

[Demivrgvs]

Ok, this discussion made me change my mind in some way. I probably have been too inflexible, and too strictly "tied to rules". I now think the same effect may be slightly improved/nerfed depending on the occasion to better fit a particular item. I really don't have the time to explain the full extent of this my "new line of thinking", but for what concerns elemental damage I may say...

 

- 1handed weapons will generally deal 1D4 elemental damage (e.g. Varscona, Frostreaver and Stonefire), but some specimens particularly "attuned" to that element still deal 1D6 (e.g. Sword of Flame and Flame Tongue which also both have only 1D8+1 base damage and thus shouldn't reach "insane damage");

- two handed weapons will generally deal 1D6 to give another small rebalancing effect for not being able to wield 2 weapons nor any IR's powerful shield;

- daggers may deal 1D6 if needed to slightly rebalance their very low damage output

- arrows and darts have many attacks per round, thus may be even limited to 1D3 elemental damage

 

Let me know if you agree with me or if "I'm going slightly mad".

 

P.S Jarno,

 

1) = +2 enhancement bonus

2) = +2 enhancement bonus

3) correct

4) correct

5) correct

6) = +2 enhancement bonus

7) the entire topic is on this matter

8) correct (by definition!)

[Salk]

I agree with you in everything except for the daggers.

 

They should also deal 1D4 of elemental damage.

 

Arrows and darts should be limited to 1D3 as you said.

[Jarno Mikkola]

Generally I like the direction you put the elemental damages in the last post...

P.S Jarno,

1) = +2 enhancement bonus

...

8) = +2 enhancement bonus

9) = +2 enhancement bonus

10) correct (by definition!)

But...

1) So the Chainmail +1 is actually +2?

9-10) What? :)

 

Let me know if ... if "I'm going slightly mad".

Ah, a bit there already...

[Demivrgvs]

Generally I like the direction you put the elemental damages in the last post...

P.S Jarno,

1) = +2 enhancement bonus

...

8) = +2 enhancement bonus

9) = +2 enhancement bonus

10) correct (by definition!)

But...

1) So the Chainmail +1 is actually +2?

9-10) What?

Sorry...that was written in a hurry as it wasn't my first concern for this topic and I had very little time! I've corrected the numeration now.

 

What do you mean by Chainmail +1 is actually +2? Chain mail +1 is better than normal Chain Mail exactly for a +1 AC.

[Ardanis]

Let me know if you agree with me or if "I'm going slightly mad".

I agree.

 

1) +1 to all saves (or +5 vs one type of save) AND +1 to AC. (is one +1 enhancement bonus)

Chainmail doesn't have +1 saves, only AC. Hence it's only +1. Were it to provide a bonus to saves it'd be counted as +2.

[DrAzTiK]

This is a good example of why working on IR and pleasing everyone is an extremely difficult task: you praise the ability of having a melee and ranged weapon in one, while instead another player recently stated that such a thing is completely pointless (speaking of IR's throwing spear, Halcyon)

 

If people want to cheat, say them to dl appropriate mods, there is plenty of them ....

 

But imo I am already very tolerant coz my opinion is not to remove ranged ability for melee weapons and it normally should be a minimum... This sort of items hit balancing.

 

But maybe at least :

 

- don't allow it for berserkers, kensai, cavalier.

- Don't make this items or only the ranged ability too powerfull

 

 

A character should be appealing coz if his self capacity, charisme etc..not coz of a spécial nice weapon.

 

But there is maybe possibility to do a optionnal composant (for berserkers, cavaliers, kensai) to enjoy all cheaters.

[DrAzTiK]

And I would like to say it is good to balance and be tied PnP. But many times, balance is more important that the fact to be tied with PnP.

 

It is my humble opinion of course

[Jarno Mikkola]

What do you mean by Chainmail +1 is actually +2? Chain mail +1 is better than normal Chain Mail exactly for a +1 AC.

Ahh, well, may I be excused, as I remembered it wrong... Hmm, I think one mod made the armors have saving throw bonuses that didn't stack with the other +items, rings etc. and you could wear as many as you wished, that is if I remember it right.

 

Now, I ask Demivrgvs, or Mike perhaps, are you planning to put the Ice Death doesn't destroy items -patch as optional component? Just in case.