Proposal for New Bardic Kit

[Salk]

This proposal is inspired by the Meistersingers' kit which I read about in another topic. The idea of a bard in spiritual communion with nature is certainly worth being pursued, although I can't see the Song of Sanction as a suitable characteristic. Here's the details:

 

 

Advantages:

 

+Starts with a familiar as animal companion for life (if slain roll successfull shock check or die)

 

+Animal Summoning once per day (the improved version replaces the former one)

AS I from lvl. 1-3, AS II from lvl. 4-6, AS III from lvl. 7+

 

+Gains Natur's Beauty once per day at lvl. 10

 

+Gains Creeping Doom once per day at lvl. 14

 

+Gains Sunray once per day at lvl. 16

 

+Special Song "Elemental Choir" - The caster intones a hymn invoking the help of the elements to aid the party. From lvl. 1 to 3 Wind creates a protective vortex around the party absorbing 1 Hit Point of damage/every 5 levels of the caster (to a Max of 4 HP) and grants a +2 bonus to AC against missile attacks; from lvl. 4 to 6 Water grants a +2 Saving bonus vs Poison by mixing itself to the air vortex as healing moisture (+1 HP regeneration per round/every 5 levels of the caster to a max of +4); from lvl. 7 to 9 Earth grants further protection by whirling many small rocks in the vortex granting a +2 Saving bonus against Petrification and an AC bonus of +2; From lvl 10+ Fire improves the Wind's shield by turning those rocks on fire, inflicting 4 HP of fire damage to any melee attackers that successfully hit) and granting immunity to fire-based attacks. The effects are stackable. The Elemental Choir can be performed only outside.

 

Disadvantages:

 

- Must be True Neutral

 

- Has same weapons restrictions of the Druids

 

- -1 to Strenght and -1 to Constitution at character creation

 

- Wizard's Hit Dice (HD4) instead of Rogue's (HD6)

 

- Cannot learn "Find Familiar" spell

 

Tweaks and corrections might be needed plus a better expositions of the characteristics. Sorry but english is not my mother tongue!

 

I hope we can develop this kit for the next version of Song and Silence!

[Andyr]

Interesting idea.

 

Advantages:

 

+Starts with a familiar as animal companion for life (if slain roll successfull shock check or die)

 

An animal companion of some sort could be an interesting idea - however, I don't know if I'd want it to be like a familiar. Plus, in 3E druids and rangers are supposed to get them but in BG2 they don't. I'd be more inclined to give them a summon animal ability similar to the Beastmasters, or Feralan (which I coded for UB).

 

+Animal Summoning once per day (the improved version replaces the former one)

AS I from lvl. 1-3, AS II from lvl. 4-6, AS III from lvl. 7+

 

+Gain Natur's Beauty once per day at lvl. 10

 

+Gain Creeping Doom once per day at lvl. 14

 

+Gain Sunray once per day at lvl. 16

 

Again, interesting. I'd be more inclined just to add these spells or similar ones to the character's spellbook, rather than give them all the innate abilities. Perhaps give them access to Priest spells from the spheres of Animal, Plant and Sun.

 

+Special Song "Elemental Choir" - The caster intones a hymn invoking the help of the elements to aid the party. From lvl. 1 to 3 Wind creates a protective vortex around the party's bodies absorbing 1 Hit Point of damage/every 5 levels of the caster (to a Max of 4 HP) and grants a +2 bonus to AC against missile attacks; from lvl. 4 to 6 Water grants a +2 Saving bonus vs Poison by mixing itself to the air vortex as healing moisture (+1 HP regeneration per round/every 5 levels of the caster to a max of +4); from lvl. 7 to 9 Earth grants further protection by whirling many small rocks in the vortex granting a +2 Saving bonus against Petrification and an AC bonus of +2; From lvl 10+ Fire improves the Wind's shield by turning those rocks on fire, inflicting 4 HP of fire damage to any melee attackers that successfully hit) and granting immunity to fire-based attacks. The effects are stackable. The Choir of Meister can be performed only outside.

 

This is a good idea - not sure if I'd want it only outside, or not. As well as game balance, Nature can flourish in cities and dungeons too to an extent.

 

Disadvantages:

 

- Must be True Neutral

 

I'd probably relax this to 'any Neutral alignment', so allowing NG, LN, TN, CN and NE. I'd also list it in the main info block, not as a Disadvantage.

 

- Has same weapons restrictions of the Druids

 

Something like this, or 'cannot use metal weapons and armour' would be a good idea. Like the Beastmaster.

 

- -1 to Strenght and -1 to Constitution at character creation

 

I don't like stat penalties for kits.

 

- Wizard's Hit Dice (HD4) instead of Rogue's (HD6)

 

Not possible in the game engine.

 

- Cannot learn "Find Familiar" spell

 

I don't know if this is possible to code or not without it being messy... I would tend to leave it out.

 

Sorry but english is not my mother tongue!

 

That's fine, I understood.

 

I hope we can develop this kit for the next version of Song and Silence!

 

It definitely has promise. I'll dig around and see what the actual Meistersinger did, too, and see if that can be incorporated.

[Salk]

Thanks for you interest, Andy!

 

I see it's more problematic adding disadvantages since I counted on the limited amount of HD to make it weaker.

 

Also, The Elemental Choir (imagined as a choir where the voice of the Wind, Water, Earth and Fire should be part of the song when they become available) might be too powerful if can be performed in inside locations too.

 

The spells mentioned as innate abilities can perfectly be implemented instead as learnable spells although an innate ability gives perhaps a stronger characterization.

 

All can be discussed further of course to make it balanced and interesting!

 

Thanks for appreciating it!

[Andyr]

This is what Bri posted on the Meistersinger:

 

Well, one I would like is the Meistersinger (from the Player's Guide to Bards, Second Edition).  Obviously the traits would need to be changed for the BG II engine:

 

Meistersingers wander the woodlands, mountains, and deserts, seeking out those who will listen to their songs.  Unlike other bards, Meistersingers rarely perform for humankind.  They tailor their music to the tunes of nature.  Their audiences are the birds, the bees, and the behomeths.

 

Weapon Proficiencies:

Forbidden:  harpon, lances, mancatcher, polearms, and trident.

 

As a hunter and woodsman, a Meistersinger must maintain a variety of weapons.  At first level, a Meistersinger must select one melee and one missile.  Each additional weapon proficiency slot must be spent in the following reptitive sequence:  hurled, melee, missile.

 

(Obviously, I wouldn't worry about the proficiencies too much in BG II).

 

Special Benefits:

Song of Companionship:

At 1st, 5th, and 10th levels, a Meistersinger can Play the Song of Companionship.  Basically, it works the same as a familiar.  1st level would be a small animal, the 5th would be small or medium, and 10th level would be Medium or Large.  If the Companion is slain, the Meistersinger must roll a successful shock check or die.

 

Song of Sanction: 

This song envelops the Meistersinger, creating a nearly magical barrier of good will around him.  Any attacking animal or monster must roll a saving throw vs. paralyzation with a -1 penalty per three levels of the Meistersinger or ignore the Meistersinger and those within one foot per level of the Meistersinger.  The effects of the song is ended if the Meistersinger or if anyone in the protected area attacks.

 

Animal Charm:

(Much like the spell charm animal).

 

Special Hindrances:

Do not gain followers, nor build strongholds.

 

Hmm, on second thought, maybe not so good for BG II for implementation.

[Andyr]

Here's a proposal:

 

MEISTERSINGER: Meistersingers wander the woodlands, mountains, and deserts, seeking out those who will listen to their songs.  Unlike other bards, Meistersingers rarely perform for humankind.  They tailor their music to the tunes of nature.  Their audiences are the birds, the bees, and the behomeths.

 

Meistersingers must be of either Neutral Good, Lawful Neutral, True Neutral, Chaotic Neutral or Neutral Evil alignments.

 

Advantages:

-  Bard song will charm animals instead of aiding allies. Animals must save vs. spells with a -1 penalty per 10 levels or be affected as if by a Charm Animal spell.

-  Knows the Priest spells Entangle, Shillelagh, Barkskin, Goodberry, Call Lightning, Summon Insects, Animal Summoning I, Call Woodland Beings, Animal Summoning II, Pixie Dust, Animal Summoning and Conjure Animals. These are memorised and cast as Mage spells.

 

Disadvantages:

-  Only has one-half normal Lore value

-  Only has one-quarter normal Pick Pockets percentage

[Bri]

It's a shame one couldn't expand the familiars But that is just me.

 

However, I do like your proposed version of the Kit Andyr but with one small change. You may wish to rethink giving Shillelagh, Barkskin, and Pixie Dust to the Meistersinger since they don't really fit a bardic archetype.

 

The others, such as Insect Summons, Animal Summoning, and Call Woodland beings does tie into the theme of a nature oriented bard using his voice to call forth other critters.

[Salk]

Yes, I remember Bri's contribution to that topic!

 

Very interesting...But at least the special song "Elementals Choir" (revisited down there) might be preserved due to its original approach and uniqueness.

 

The Bard Song charming animals seems pretty much limited in its effective use to make it appealable according to me, although it'd suit the kit very well. It would also be too similar to the Gypsy's special song which is also Charm-based!

 

Also like Bri says, the presence of a familiar/animal companion seems like a key element of this kit. Perhaps we can find a way to implement something like that just like for the Beastmaster but perhaps it's hard corded and can't be done ?

 

About the Priest spells known, again I agree with Bri's observation and I'd also add Nature's Beauty, Creeping Doom and Sunray to the list while I'd perhaps thinking of forbidding something from the Wizard's spell book!

 

What do you think ? There is my counterproposal down there...I'd welcome Bri's comments (and any others') as well of course...

[Salk]

Counterproposal:

 

Advantages:

 

+ Has an animal companion for life (if slain roll successfull shock check or die)

 

+ Knows the Priest spells Entangle, Goodberry, Call Lightning, Summon Insects, Animal Summoning I, Call Woodland Beings, Animal Summoning II, Animal Summoning III,Conjure Animals, Nature's Beauty, Creeping Doom and Sunray. These are memorised and cast as Mage spells.

 

+ Special Bard Song "Elementals Choir": The caster intones a hymn invoking the help of the elements to aid the party. From lvl. 1 to 3 Wind creates a protective vortex around the party absorbing 1 Hit Point of damage/every 5 levels of the caster (to a Max of 4 HP); from lvl. 4 to 6 Water grants immunity to disease and a +2 Saving bonus vs Poison by mixing itself to the air vortex as disinfecting moisture; from lvl. 7 to 9 Earth grants further protection by whirling many small rocks in the vortex (+2 Saving bonus against Petrification and an AC bonus of +2); From lvl 10+ Fire improves the Wind's shield by turning those rocks on fire, inflicting 4 HP of fire damage to any melee attackers that successfully hit and granting immunity to fire-based attacks. The effects are stackable. The Elemental Choir can be performed only outside.

 

Disadvantages:

 

- Has only one half Lore Value

 

- Has only one quarter normal Pick Pockets percentage

 

- Has no access to Necromantic spells

 

- Can only be proficient with druidic weapons

[Salk]

Oh one important question: would it be possible to keep the Bards Song greyed out untill an hostile creature is spotted by the party ?

 

I am asking because in the "Elemntal Choir", Water was first supposed to regenerate the party members but I had to remove this because it'd be too powerful if could affect the party with no limitations.

 

I'd happily take it back in case the Bard's Song can be limited to combat situations only (and in this case we might even remove the "outside only" disadvantage keeping it still balanced).

 

Thanks!

[Andyr]

Very interesting...But at least the special song "Elementals Choir" (revisited down there) might be preserved due to its original approach and uniqueness.

 

It is an interesting idea. I had thought that kitless Bards should at higher levels be given access to different songs (while kits with their own songs wouldn't get choices), perhaps it could be worked in as one of them.

 

The Bard Song charming animals seems pretty much limited in its effective use to make it appealable according to me, although it'd suit the kit very well. It would also be too similar to the Gypsy's special song which is also Charm-based!

 

Yes, it would be similar to the Gyspy one - however, harder to save against for the animal. And yes, it would be less useful. Though that means it'd be easier to balance it out: kits are not meant to be more powerful, just different.

 

Also like Bri says, the presence of a familiar/animal companion seems like a key element of this kit. Perhaps we can find a way to implement something like that just like for the Beastmaster but perhaps it's hard corded and can't be done ?

 

Yes, that was a good part of the kit. I think the easiest way would be to perhaps give them an animal summoning spell once per day (as Summoning I at level 1, Summoning I at level 8, Summoning III at level 14 and higher?).

 

About the Priest spells known, again I agree with Bri's observation and I'd also add Nature's Beauty, Creeping Doom and Sunray to the list while I'd perhaps thinking of forbidding something from the Wizard's spell book!

 

Sunray and Nature's Beauty are level 7 spells; I don't recall Creeping Doom. However it might be an idea to grant them as HLAs.

 

 

- Has no access to Necromantic spells

 

Good idea - Minor Drain, Animate Dead and so on don't fit with the kit.

 

- Can only be proficient with druidic weapons

 

I don't think this is necessary.

[Salk]

Tha animal companionship is a concept that is much closer to the Familiar one rather than an innate Animal Summoning ability. So the best would be to give the Meistersinger a familiar too, in my opinion. It would really perfectly suit this kit!

 

About the Charming song...I don't know...It's still too similar to the Gypsy's one despite the fact (secondary) that it's more directed to Animals...

 

And I do agree kits shouldn't be made to be more powerful than the natural class of course! I always keep an eye on the balancing!

 

About Creeping Doom, it's also a priest Lvl 6 spell. Here's the description:

 

"When the caster utters the spell of creeping doom, he calls forth a mass of from 1000 venomous, biting and stinging arachnids, insects and myriapods. This carpet-like mass swarms over a large area. Upon command from the caster, the swarm creeps forth toward any prey within 80 yards, moving in the direction in which the caster command. Victims cought in the path of the creeping doom may make a saving throw against breath (with a -2 penalty) to escape the insects - half duration for the spell. Those trapped by the insects will suffer 2 HP of physical damage every round and a spell failure rate of 100%"

[NiGHTMARE]

Why should meistersingers get an animal familiar when rangers and druids don't?

[Salk]

Beastmasters are Rangers that can have a familiar, for instance. I have not Baldur's Gate II installed and never played with the Beastmaster. I am basing this on what I read on the website http://www.sorcerers.net/Games/BG2/kits.php

 

Also it's because of their special empaty with Nature PLUS the ability of using wizardry (Find Familiar) that Rangers and Druids lack. From this combination of magic, having a Familiar seems a very consistent possibility.

[Salk]

By the way, I'd forbid also the Divination school of magic as opposite to Conjuration/Summong to which the Meistersinger obviously is closest. So that it becomes:

 

+ Can summon a Familiar (if slain roll successfull shock check or die)

 

+ Knows the Priest spells Entangle, Goodberry, Call Lightning, Summon Insects, Animal Summoning I, Call Woodland Beings, Animal Summoning II, Animal Summoning III,Conjure Animals, Nature's Beauty, Creeping Doom and Sunray. These are memorised and cast as Mage spells.

 

+ Special Bard Song "Elementals Choir": The caster intones a hymn invoking the help of the elements to aid the party. From lvl. 1 to 3 Wind creates a protective vortex around the party absorbing 1 Hit Point of damage/every 5 levels of the caster (to a Max of 4 HP); from lvl. 4 to 6 Water grants immunity to disease and a +2 Saving bonus vs Poison by mixing itself to the air vortex as disinfecting moisture; from lvl. 7 to 9 Earth grants further protection by whirling many small rocks in the vortex (+2 Saving bonus against Petrification and an AC bonus of +2); From lvl 10+ Fire improves the Wind's shield by turning those rocks on fire, inflicting 4 HP of fire damage to any melee attackers that successfully hit and granting immunity to fire-based attacks. The effects are stackable. The Elemental Choir can be performed only outside.

 

Disadvantages:

 

- Has only one half Lore Value

 

- Has only one quarter normal Pick Pockets percentage

 

- Has no access to Necromantic and Divination spells

 

PS: The Elementals Choir Songs needs tweaking but I believe it's a valid idea. Unfortunately I had this in mind thinking of TuTu experience so that the progression of the four elements should be adjusted up to much higher levels!

[Andyr]

Why should meistersingers get an animal familiar when rangers and druids don't?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

This is also part of my rationale for suggesting a Summon spell over a Familiar.

 

Plus, it is a lot easier.