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Removing XP awards from summoned creatures


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#1 10thLich

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Posted 06 June 2012 - 08:43 AM

The following shouldn't be changed in that way, as that creature is still used as a normal enemy in BGT:
~stalke.cre~ ~override~ // Invisible Stalker (spwi601.spl -> spstalk.eff)

Rather than destructively setting its XP Value to 0, do it like spell revisions and create a separate copy of the creature for spstalk.eff.

Moreover, why are these enemy only creatures changed, when you only encounter them as enemies?
~c6guen.cre~ ~override~ // Guenhwyvar (c6drizz.cre -> c6drizz1.dlg)
~sahangu.cre~ ~override~ // Anguiliian (ar2300.are -> sahambo6.cre -> sahambo6.bcs)
~sahlace.cre~ ~override~ // Lacedon (ar2003.are -> sahambo3.cre -> sahambo3.bcs)
~sahskel.cre~ ~override~ // Skeleton Warrior (ar2003.are -> sahambo3.cre -> sahambo3.bcs)
~sahzomb.cre~ ~override~ // Sea Zombie (ar2003.are -> sahambo3.cre -> sahambo3.bcs)
~senstalk.cre~ ~override~ // Invisible Stalker (ar6108.bcs)
~telelfir.cre~ ~override~ // Greater Fire Elemental (ar3010.are -> teltan1.cre -> teltan1.bcs -> spin570.spl -> sutelfir.eff)
~telicesa.cre~ ~override~ // Ice Salamander (ar3010.are -> teltan2.cre -> teltan2.bcs -> spin569.spl -> sutelice.eff)

10th

#2 aVENGER_(RR)

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Posted 06 June 2012 - 09:09 AM

AFAIK, these changes were made rather early in the fixpack's development cycle, maybe even in version 1.

We probably have a good case for deprecating them, but I'm interested in hearing other some views on this first.

Edited by aVENGER_(RR), 06 June 2012 - 10:06 AM.


#3 Hurricane

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Posted 06 June 2012 - 11:47 AM

I've noticed the missing XP for the Invisible Stalker when playing BGT as well. It's an exemplary compatibility problem between the BG2 Fixpack and BGT. The cause of it is the completely different usage of the same creature in BG1 vs. BG2:

You already know this.
Spoiler


I'm not sure which mod is the one to adjust though, because the handling of STALKE.CRE depends on whether you view it as a BG2 or BG1 resource:

If STALKE.CRE is a legitimate BG2 file now, rightfully belonging to the BG2-only mage spell, then the Fixpack's current behavior is correct and BGT would have to take care of the incompatibility by introducing an alternative, BG2-friendly file version called "BGSTLKR.CRE" or something, which would have the properties of the BG1 file. This is already done in a similar way for many BG1 resources.

If STALKE.CRE keeps its 3000 XP, it can be considered the original Invisible Stalker. Then the BG2 Fixpack has to create a new, unique creature file for the summoned Stalker to be used by the mage spell (this is the same as what 10thLich suggests). While at it, the Fixpack could also put the 45 gp back into STALKE.CRE and change its gender to something other than SUMMONED, to make it legitimate.

One more thing to note: In vanilla BG2, there actually is one other instance apart from the mage spell where STALKE.CRE is being used: In Throne of Bhaal, there is one action triggered by the dialogue BAZDRA01.DLG that makes Invisible Stalkers appear. However, I can't tell whether they are supposed to be "real" or summoned. If they are supposed to be summoned, then Bioware was consistent with making STALKE.CRE a summoned creature. If they are real, then all the more reason to think of STALKE.CRE as the original BG1 creature.

#4 devSin

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Posted 06 June 2012 - 01:36 PM

We make changes according to the usage in BG2. BGT can modify the resource if there's a difference in how something works in BG content and in BG2.

We're also not going to change the resources used by a ton of scripts and spells in the game just to set the XP awards. We have to worry about mods that then make changes to those scripts and spells and expect that they work the way they always have. That said, I wouldn't be opposed to simply dropping the enemy-only summons from the list. I'm not worried if somebody wants to farm a few extra thousand XP from these encounters.

#5 Ascension64

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Posted 08 June 2012 - 01:30 AM

I will make the BG1 STALKE.CRE unique for BGT. No Fixpack action required.

#6 Dakk

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Posted 30 August 2012 - 03:58 AM

Moreover, why are these enemy only creatures changed, when you only encounter them as enemies?
~c6guen.cre~ ~override~ // Guenhwyvar (c6drizz.cre -> c6drizz1.dlg)
~sahangu.cre~ ~override~ // Anguiliian (ar2300.are -> sahambo6.cre -> sahambo6.bcs)
~sahlace.cre~ ~override~ // Lacedon (ar2003.are -> sahambo3.cre -> sahambo3.bcs)
~sahskel.cre~ ~override~ // Skeleton Warrior (ar2003.are -> sahambo3.cre -> sahambo3.bcs)
~sahzomb.cre~ ~override~ // Sea Zombie (ar2003.are -> sahambo3.cre -> sahambo3.bcs)
~senstalk.cre~ ~override~ // Invisible Stalker (ar6108.bcs)
~telelfir.cre~ ~override~ // Greater Fire Elemental (ar3010.are -> teltan1.cre -> teltan1.bcs -> spin570.spl -> sutelfir.eff)
~telicesa.cre~ ~override~ // Ice Salamander (ar3010.are -> teltan2.cre -> teltan2.bcs -> spin569.spl -> sutelice.eff)

We probably have a good case for deprecating them, but I'm interested in hearing other some views on this first.

[I] wouldn't be opposed to simply dropping the enemy-only summons from the list. I'm not worried if somebody wants to farm a few extra thousand XP from these encounters.


So what's the final score - will those summons yield XP (rightly so, IMHO)? :)

Edited by Dakk, 30 August 2012 - 03:59 AM.


#7 Miloch

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Posted 10 September 2012 - 02:21 PM

We're also not going to change the resources used by a ton of scripts and spells in the game just to set the XP awards. We have to worry about mods that then make changes to those scripts and spells and expect that they work the way they always have. That said, I wouldn't be opposed to simply dropping the enemy-only summons from the list. I'm not worried if somebody wants to farm a few extra thousand XP from these encounters.

There must be something wrong with me, but I think I might be agreed with this bastard at least twice in the same day. I don't think creating separate copies of creatures is a good idea, not at this late stage anyway when few mods will be able to account for it.
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#8 Dakk

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Posted 11 September 2012 - 03:43 AM

I thought the only copied creature was STALKE.CRE (which is now moot, per the BGT action by Asc64)? And that undoing the "set XP award to zero" by Fixpack was another issue?

#9 CamDawg

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Posted 11 September 2012 - 03:56 AM

The 0XP summons has always been an elimination of an exploit of XP farming from green-circled creatures, which is why we don't mess with the summons from Gate/Cacofiend/etc. We should drop the 0 XP adjustments from enemy-only summons.

I came here with a simple dream: a dream of killing all humans. And this is how it must end? Who's the real seven billion ton robot monster here? Not I. Not... I.


#10 Dakk

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Posted 11 September 2012 - 04:22 AM

We should drop the 0 XP adjustments from enemy-only summons.

:thumbs up:



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