SimDing0 Posted April 9, 2005 Author Share Posted April 9, 2005 Bioware intended there to be an unlimited supply of spears (which may or may not be called Lahl) but nothing else? Link to comment
devSin Posted April 10, 2005 Share Posted April 10, 2005 Bioware intended there to be an unlimited supply of spears (which may or may not be called Lahl) but nothing else?This was done to balance the fact that there are no generic enchanted clubs in SoA. Duh. Link to comment
Caedwyr Posted April 10, 2005 Share Posted April 10, 2005 Actually what I meant was of the list 25SPELL2Infinite flag set for stocked item #61. Shadow Door Scroll Infinite flag set for stocked item #209. Potion of Healing Infinite flag set for stocked item #223. Potion of Extra Healing ARLED Infinite flag set for stocked item #30. Katana +1 Infinite flag set for stocked item #31. Two Handed Sword +1 Infinite flag set for stocked item #44. Halberd +1 GORCH Infinite flag set for stocked item #4. Mace +2 Infinite flag set for stocked item #13. Spear THUMB Infinite flag set for stocked item #25. Spear Infinite flag set for stocked item #33. History Of The Fateful Coin HGKAR01 Infinite flag set for stocked item #23. Club +3 LEHTINAN Infinite flag set for stocked item #31. Spear Infinite flag set for stocked item #50. History Of The Fateful Coin SARTEM01 Infinite flag set for stocked item #13. Elven Holy Water PPSTOR01 Infinite flag set for stocked item #43. Dart +1 HENDAK Infinite flag set for stocked item #44. Spear 25SPELL Infinite flag set for stocked item #207. Potion of Healing FFBART Infinite flag set for stocked item #25. Spear Infinite flag set for stocked item #33. History Of The Fateful Coin TRMER04A Infinite flag set for stocked item #12. Two Handed Sword +2 TRGENI01 Infinite flag set for stocked item #30. Katana +1 Infinite flag set for stocked item #31. Two Handed Sword +1 Infinite flag set for stocked item #44. Halberd +1 MERCHANT Infinite flag set for stocked item #16. Spear TRINNK01 Infinite flag set for stocked item #4. Club Infinite flag set for stocked item #5. Flail Infinite flag set for stocked item #15. Dagger Infinite flag set for stocked item #20. Helmet Infinite flag set for stocked item #36. Sling Infinite flag set for stocked item #37. Spear Infinite flag set for stocked item #38. Quarterstaff TYPE2 Infinite flag set for stocked item #5. Splint Mail +1 Infinite flag set for stocked item #14. Katana +1 Infinite flag set for stocked item #37. Potion of Agility SHOP07 Infinite flag set for stocked item #21. Spear Infinite flag set for stocked item #41. Large Shield RIBALD Infinite flag set for stocked item #24. Spear Infinite flag set for stocked item #133. Ring of Air Control Infinite flag set for stocked item #135. Ring of Animal Friendship INN2616 Infinite flag set for stocked item #3. Club Infinite flag set for stocked item #10. Dagger Infinite flag set for stocked item #15. Sling Infinite flag set for stocked item #17. Quarterstaff Infinite flag set for stocked item #22. Scimitar Infinite flag set for stocked item #35. Buckler Infinite flag set for stocked item #36. Buckler Infinite flag set for stocked item #37. Buckler Infinite flag set for stocked item #44. Helmet BDBART01 Infinite flag set for stocked item #25. Spear Infinite flag set for stocked item #33. History of the Fateful Coin SHOP03 Infinite flag set for stocked item #40. Bullet +1 TRMER04 Infinite flag set for stocked item #32. Potion of Agility SHOP04 Infinite flag set for stocked item #11. Spear Infinite flag set for stocked item #28. Potion of Healing UDDROW23 Infinite flag set for stocked item #16. Harbinger +3 RIBALD2 Infinite flag set for stocked item #35. Potion of Agility RIBALD3 Infinite flag set for stocked item #15. Warblade +4 Infinite flag set for stocked item #16. Two Handed Sword +2 Infinite flag set for stocked item #31. Heartseeker +3 Infinite flag set for stocked item #50. Freedom Scroll UHINN01 Store selling flag not set, but there is stock. Infinite flag set for stocked item #4. Club Infinite flag set for stocked item #5. Flail Infinite flag set for stocked item #15. Dagger Infinite flag set for stocked item #20. Helmet Infinite flag set for stocked item #36. Sling Infinite flag set for stocked item #37. Spear Infinite flag set for stocked item #38. Quarterstaff BINNKEEP Infinite flag set for stocked item #7. Club Infinite flag set for stocked item #8. Flail Infinite flag set for stocked item #16. Dagger Infinite flag set for stocked item #20. Helmet Infinite flag set for stocked item #36. Sling Infinite flag set for stocked item #37. Spear Infinite flag set for stocked item #38. Quarterstaff AMBAR01 Infinite flag set for stocked item #4. Club Infinite flag set for stocked item #5. Flail Infinite flag set for stocked item #15. Dagger Infinite flag set for stocked item #20. Helmet Infinite flag set for stocked item #36. Sling Infinite flag set for stocked item #37. Spear Infinite flag set for stocked item #38. Quarterstaff The only ones that I see a really strong argument for not being infinite are RIBALD Infinite flag set for stocked item #133. Ring of Air Control Infinite flag set for stocked item #135. Ring of Animal Friendship UDDROW23 Infinite flag set for stocked item #16. Harbinger +3 RIBALD3 Infinite flag set for stocked item #15. Warblade +4 Infinite flag set for stocked item #31. Heartseeker +3 These appear to be the only 'unique' items on the list, and one could probably argue that even the Ring of Air Control and Ring of Animal Friendship are non-unique. Everything else on the quoted list is non-unique, and I don't see why changing their stock to non-unlimited would be a bugfix. Personally I like the proposed changes, and its actually one of the things I considered doing myself from time to time, but I don't think there is a strong argument for non-unique items to have their unlimited tag removed. Unless you can dredge up some Bioware comment, it feels more like a 'cool-but-not-bugfix' type change to me (besides the exceptions I mentioned). Link to comment
igi Posted April 10, 2005 Share Posted April 10, 2005 It may not be a bug-fix, but it seems dumb to me that some stores have infinite e.g. daggers, and some stores don't. I guess we could but it in the "not a fix" component. But, I think we should amend the readme (can we amend something, before we have it?) to state something like: "The fixpack is ditributed using weidu, which guarentees compatability with anything, anywhere, even that weird video recorder you picked up from Taiwan ages ago, and that you've never been able to figure out - yes, the one that has a weird plug with 7 prongs on it. Anyway, so, it's weidu, and it's in components:1) Fixes This component these fixes various bugs. 2) More fixes This component also fixes various bugs, but we had to put it separate to avoid people moaning about developer intent, pnp correlation, weather it's worthwhile to fix something that may not be directly used, weather modding fixes count as fixes, weather an alien from pluto would understand the point of the fix, and how long the fix would take to code/install. Basically, you should install this too. So, it should really just be in the other component anyway. Apoligies in advance, if anyone reads this. I'm just annoyed about the endless discussion and moaning. Link to comment
SimDing0 Posted April 10, 2005 Author Share Posted April 10, 2005 Unless you can dredge up some Bioware comment, it feels more like a 'cool-but-not-bugfix' type change to me (besides the exceptions I mentioned). So, again... Bioware intended there to be infinite spears everywhere, but hardly any other items? Or, is it just the result of some copy/pasting carelessness? Link to comment
CamDawg Posted April 10, 2005 Share Posted April 10, 2005 Developer intent should be the key factor in determining whether something is a bug and whether it needs to be fixed. We need to recognize that in most cases, we can not accurately determine intent. Two points I'd like to make when we can not determine intent. 1) Lack of clarity does not automatically mean we change nothing. We do not need absolute certainty of developer intent to identify and classify bugs. 2) Lack of clarity does not give us free reign to shoehorn in a bunch of changes under the guise of bugfixing. We immediately enter the realm of subjectivity. One of the reasons why we have a team of bugfixers is so that we can discuss the subjective issues reasonably, rationally, and without rancor. If you wish to view people engaging in debate over what's a bugfix, feel free to classify it as moaning. Me, I'm estatic that we're putting such a minor bugfix under the microscope since it bodes well for the overall QA process. To the issue at hand, my take is that some (Warblade, Heartseeker) are definitely bugs. Others where Seb has uncovered a limited quantity next to an infinite flag are also bugs (i.e. should not be infinite). It does seem that consesnsus so far: Magical items should not infinite Items flagged as infinite that also include a quantity should not be infinite Nonmagical ammo should remain infinite In the case of spears, I think something like merchant.sto, where they're the only infinite item, is a bug. OTOH, trrink01's infinite spears are probably not, as they feature many infinite non-magical items. I would leave the Ribald's freedom scrolls as either infinite, or of a high enough quantity to free, say, five party members after facing Kangaxx. Link to comment
hlidskialf Posted April 10, 2005 Share Posted April 10, 2005 To the issue at hand, my take is that some (Warblade, Heartseeker) are definitely bugs. Others where Seb has uncovered a limited quantity next to an infinite flag are also bugs (i.e. should not be infinite). It does seem that consesnsus so far:Magical items should not infinite Items flagged as infinite that also include a quantity should not be infinite Nonmagical ammo should remain infinite In the case of spears, I think something like merchant.sto, where they're the only infinite item, is a bug. OTOH, trrink01's infinite spears are probably not, as they feature many infinite non-magical items. I would leave the Ribald's freedom scrolls as either infinite, or of a high enough quantity to free, say, five party members after facing Kangaxx. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I'd agree with everything here almost. (Just to throw a wrench into the gears 'eh?) Since we are second-guessing developer intent I'd like to apply logic to a few things. In cases of NON-magical weapons, if they are sold at a store where the weapons themselves are made, they should be infinite. I believe there are weaponsmith shops in the Promenade, Trademeet, Brynnlaw and likely a few other spots I've forgotten. Now this is completely subjective of course, and nitpicking. However it makes sense to me at least. This would also have the side-effect of diverging from an "All or nothing" interpretation of the fixpack changes. *shrug* Just a thought. Link to comment
Kish Posted April 10, 2005 Share Posted April 10, 2005 I'd agree with everything here almost. (Just to throw a wrench into the gears 'eh?) Since we are second-guessing developer intent I'd like to apply logic to a few things. In cases of NON-magical weapons, if they are sold at a store where the weapons themselves are made, they should be infinite. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> That depends on the weapons, I think. Quarter staffs and spears, yes, but I'd think most blacksmiths would go, "Okay, give me a month" if someone came in and said, "I want to buy a hundred swords." Link to comment
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