What is the preferable placement

[Domi]

No, I am not working on the mod again, but I am starting to think about it. Thanks to Hendryk's kind support, I actually become bold enough to think that area graphics might not be as horrifyingly undoable as I thought before... so... if one (me, I guess) wants to put a nice extra chapter into SoA/BG where would you see it the most fitting?

 

Here is a bit of description as pertaining to this mod:

 

1) Instead of Irenicus' Dungeon: You start the game by traveling together with Kivan, do a Shilmista adventure and then get summons with the notice that Imoen was abducted in BG. Then you fastforward streight to the upper level of the dungeon, save Imoen, meet Yoshimo and the rest of the gang who'd update you on the happenings.

 

2) On the way to Spellhold: a bit of a problem since Shilmista is nowhere near the sea, so er... some lame portal solution.

 

3) After Spellhold and Underwater City: easy enough - you exit the Underwater city near Shilmista do the chapter and go into the Underdark from there

 

4) Again, self-explanatory: Ellesime did not force you out of the citry, you simply travel with your friend Kivan as you have always intended and you go to the grove in SHilmista, not Tethyr uncovering the fact that Shilmista troubles are connected with Illasera

 

5) Making Shilmista an Illasera's story - she is not killed by the Talking Heads, but have to be chased to Shilmista. The problem is how to strip the party in this case, but perhaps simply damp them in the PP waiting for your return. Kivan goes as the guide, and PC goes because it's in his interest to get the woman.

[BigRob]

I voted for 4, but I also like 5. For some reason, screwing with the SoA/ToB transition doesn't seem as invasive as doing it pre- or mid-SoA

[Hendryk]

Since the SoA part of Kivan already works well dramatically, and ToB needs all the help it can get, I'd say just run it between Hell and ToB. Let the EndGame of SoA run only instead of dropping you right into the Stonehead grove, you start in Shilmista. That's right for Kivan since his future, whatever it turned out to be in SoA, is now set and he would want to return home as a confirmation of his new path. Then whatever story you have planned for Shilmista plays out and then Illasera tracks you down there and the party has its final confrontation with her in the Stonehead grove (which can be in Shilmista as easily as Sul) and ToB finally kicks off as at present when Illasera dies there.

[jester]

As always a hard choice as some solutions would work quite well. I am especially fond of 1), (perhaps because I hate CI that much) :/ but I must say that a mixture of 4 and 5 would be the most fitting for me too.

[Domi]

Since the SoA part of Kivan already works well dramatically, and ToB needs all the help it can get, I'd say just run it between Hell and ToB.  Let the EndGame of SoA run only instead of dropping you right into the Stonehead grove, you start in Shilmista.  That's right for Kivan since his future, whatever it turned out to be in SoA, is now set and he would want to return home as a confirmation of his new path.

Actually now that I think about it, it also provides a good causality; Basically I will need to add an extra talk in SoA which will have an option for PC to say that s/he'd want to accompany Kivan to Shilmista etc. Then in Suldanesselar Kivan and Deheriana (if present) will ask PC if s/he'd go with them, and then PC either will move to Shilmista sector with Kivan (and Deheriana) or to the Heads without the Elves. If PC did not want to travel to Shilmista in the first place, then everyone will go to the Heads.

 

As always a hard choice as some solutions would work quite well. I am especially fond of 1), (perhaps because I hate CI that much)

 

Yes, replacing CI is a huge bonus and temptation, plus it cuts Deheriana's participation out.

 

But, yes, I think 'in the middle of SoA' are the least logical choices.

[Meira]

I voted for 4, but for 1 the level of the PC would be more to my tastes, though.

[Hendryk]

I voted for 4, but for 1 the level of the PC would be more to my tastes, though.

Good point!

 

The placement should consider what the most natural party level might be for whatever you have planned for Shilmista. Including the interaction with Kivan's old friends and surviving relatives. NPCs that would accept him easily enough at levels 8-10 should regard him differently, might even be a little put off, if he's level 16+.

[Domi]

We will be working pro or against Elf King Elbereth, so I think the higher level is beneficial. However, sine I am going to introduce "Shilmista-only" NPCs, it would be difficult to imagine that they will all match PC at the end of ToB level wise. Shayleigh makes sense on high level, even Ivan and Pickle, but other NPCs are lower... Should I go for realism and have them lagging behind PC then or keep them unexplicably high?

[jester]

Non-permanent NPCs that just stick around for a part of a story should have a level that fits them rather than jump to group level without any explanation. I even find that level jump distracting for canon NPCs without a good background reason. I mean I cannot see how Nalia and Keldorn could be on the same XP level when I meet them IMHO.

[Hendryk]

I agree with Jester even if you plan to make these NPCs temporarily joinable. It would be a new and interesting challenge for the ToB-level party to have to keep a key, low-level NPC alive through a mid-level quest. Especially if the twerp, emboldened by such mighty companions, gets a little reckless. For instance, by the time my party is ready for ToB, I'd just laugh at someone who threatened me with a wand of fire. Make the save, take a couple of hp damage, drink a potion and on to the next part. But if completing the quest totally depends on bringing Little Dinkus (F2/T3, 18 hp) through it alive, then I'd probably listen to what the joker with the wand has to say; maybe even do what he wants me to do.

[Domi]

Well, my thoughts on Levels are:

 

Shayleigh (lawful-good elven paladin), unless we find her official D&D stats// Mountain Path

Ivan (lawful-good dwarven fighter) // Library (inseparable with Pickle)

 

Both are : high level (as high as lvl 14-16)

 

Tintagel (chaotic-neutral elven wild mage), unless we find his official D&D stats // Mountain Path:

 

Medium-high level: 10-12

 

Pikel (true-neutral, dwarven fighter-druid) //Library (inseparable with Ivan)

 

A fighter at LVL9 DC'd to Druid and possibly just caught up Druid's levels

 

 

Minuwiel (neutral-evil elven assassin) // Library

 

Medium-high level: 10-12

 

? (chaotic-evil drow cleric of Vhaeraun ) //Library

 

high level (as high as lvl 14-16)

 

Asha (lawful-neutral, human monk) // Library

Branwen, (true-neutral human cleric of Tempus) // Carradoon

Ana Orsinie (neutral-good scald/thief)// Carradoon

 

All three: low level, perhaps 6-8

[BigRob]

Though is Branwen assumed to have adventured with CHARNAME in BGI? If so, she could be a few levels up (low teens)

[Domi]

Maybe about level 10-12 then.

[Domi]

Out of curiosity, which mods will we be incompatible with if we go for 'after Ellesime's congratulated us and before transfer to the grove with Talking Heads' placement?

 

The Longer Road? The Windpsear?

[jester]

The Longer Road for sure as it is the pivotal starting scene which gets the mod started. No mask, no dice.