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Revised Thac0 tables


Demivrgvs

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While for saves there were AD&D things I considered better than later editions, I really see nothing good about old AD&D thac0 progression:

* inconsistencies (e.g. a lvl 3 thief has better thac0 than a lvl 3 priest than a lvl 4 priest has better thac0 than a lvl 4 thief)

* too much penalizing assignments (e.g. rogues in particular have really too bad accuracy, but in general all non-warriors have to be played as multi or dual fighters to have a decent thac0)

* non linear progression (e.g. priests getting +2 thac0 with a single level up makes no sense imo)

* different caps (e.g. fighters and rogues reach their cap level 21, mages and clerics at level 22)

 

Unsurprisingly my suggested tables are pretty much 3E tables. I actually like what they are thinking to do for 5E (aka D&D Next), making "thac0" progress much slower for all classes, because it makes fights between high and low leveled opponents less unbalanced, but within BG it would not work imo (it requires heavy changes to the whole system, including equipment and spells).

 

Short story, I suggest the following changes.

 

Warriors

Vanilla: +1 thac0 bonus every level, starting at level 2. Caps with thac0 '0' at level 21.

 

Suggested: +1 thac0 bonus every level, starting at at level 1. Caps with thac0 '0' at level 20.

 

Priests

Vanilla: +2 thac0 bonus every 3 levels, starting at level 4. Caps with thac0 '6' at level 22.

 

Suggested: +1 thac0 bonus every level except levels 1, 5, 9, 13 and 17. Caps with thac0 '5' at level 20.

 

Rogues

Vanilla: +1 thac0 every 2 levels, starting at level 3. Caps with thac0 '10' at level 21.

 

Suggested: +1 thac0 bonus every level except levels 1, 5, 9, 13 and 17. Caps with thac0 '5' at level 20.

 

Mages

Vanilla: +1 thac0 every 3 levels, starting at level 4. Caps with thac0 '13' at level 22.

 

Suggested: +1 thac0 bonus every 2 levels, starting at level 3. Caps with thac0 '11' at level 19.

 

Alternative: +1 thac0 bonus every 2 levels, starting at level 2. Caps with thac0 '10' at level 20.

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Yes, I do think that priest should have slightly better THAC0, it was so in vanilla as well. Also, nothing prevents rogues from sneaking around, gaining a +4 additional bonus, which puts them ahead of clerics, at least for the first strike.

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Yes, I do think that priest should have slightly better THAC0, it was so in vanilla as well. Also, nothing prevents rogues from sneaking, gaining a +4 additional bonus, which puts them ahead of clerics, at least for the first strike.
Yeah but that +4 bonus is only the the first strike as you say, and to be fair nothing prevents the priest from using any of his various powerful buffs to get not only better thac0 but better damage, apr, AC, stats, resistances, etc.
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True, at least the priest must waste a couple of spells to do it...

Anyway, it might be fine like this. Let's try it out and see. Otoh, these I believe should be used with "Revised XP tables", yes?

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Warriors

Vanilla: +1 thac0 bonus every level, starting at level 2. Caps with thac0 '0' at level 21.

 

Suggested: +1 thac0 bonus every level, starting at at level 1. Caps with thac0 '0' at level 20.

My suggestion is to strictly give the bonus to fighter, the other warriors can handle the starting from the Thac0 20.

 

Erhm, comment... are the other .2da changes coming up soon... :p

 

Uuh, and the above is just the 4 base classes, kinda... is the druid a priest ? And what of Monk ?

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Let's try it out and see. Otoh, these I believe should be used with "Revised XP tables", yes?
Well, I'll provide xp tables but they will be a separate component as I'm still not sure about them. Anyway, revised saves and thac0 not necessarily need revised xp tables imo. Even if we would end up keeping vanilla xp progression (mostly for issues regarding NPCs) I'd keep the other tables.

 

(Jarno: Druid is probably classified as a priest whereas the monk is probably a warrior)
Yeah, sorry for not mentioning it but the Monk uses warrior table as per vanilla yes, and the druid obviously uses priest progression.
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I have just 1 issue with these: Rogues. I'd cap them at 7.

 

I don't see why priests should have a better thaco than rogues. They don't tend to be always on the field. As for the +4 bonus when sneaking for rogues, priests have a lot of spells to buff themselves. So I would let the cap at 5.

 

 

 

Warriors

Vanilla: +1 thac0 bonus every level, starting at level 2. Caps with thac0 '0' at level 21.

 

Suggested: +1 thac0 bonus every level, starting at at level 1. Caps with thac0 '0' at level 20.

My suggestion is to strictly give the bonus to fighter, the other warriors can handle the starting from the Thac0 20.

 

Uuh, and the above is just the 4 base classes, kinda... is the druid a priest ? And what of Monk ?

 

That's a good idea. Even though the revised grandmastery grants fighters better thaco, damages and a whole attack per round compared to paladins, barbarians and rangers limited to specialization (except archer), that could make sense to give them another advantage at lvl1. After all they have one purpose, tank and tank again :laugh2: .

Go for it.

 

As for the monk I woudn't change a thing.

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