Jump to content


Photo

[Testers Wanted] Tweaks is dead. Long live Tweaks!


167 replies to this topic

#16 subtledoctor

subtledoctor
  • Modders
  • 2144 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 14 March 2016 - 06:29 PM

This is because the "static modifier" part of the hpxxx.2da files is broken.  I mentioned this to @CamDawg over on the Beamdog forums, not sure if he noticed it.

 

To be honest, I only tested on BGEE.  It might not be broken on BG2EE/IWDEE.  It might work fine in 2.0... which would explain why CamDawg would see it working, as I assume he is running 2.0/SoD on his end.

 

But yeah at least for now, the "low variance rolls" component does not work.


Faiths & Powers: Spell spheres and kit pack for priests and paladins
Might & Guile: Tweaks and kits for warriors and rogues
Scales of Balance: Game tweaks and rule overhauls
NPC_EE: More options for NPCs in BGEE, SoD, & BG2EE


#17 Greenhorn

Greenhorn

    Chaotic good gibberling

  • Members
  • 131 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 14 March 2016 - 06:41 PM

Any idea how to rid of it without losing whole day? I don't even want to think about it. Maybe to install on top of all of it BG2 Tweaks component higher hit points neverwinter style hoping that it will overwrite this? Or I will sink  even more in quicksand of tweaking?  :rant:



#18 Jarno Mikkola

Jarno Mikkola

    The Imp

  • Modders
  • 6201 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:The town where the dead haven't keeled over, yet. In Finland.

Posted 15 March 2016 - 01:20 AM

Jaheira only got 5 hp of possible 12 with 17 constitution ...

Sorry, but what happened, what level did she got, was it only one of the dual classes or was it both ?
What class and kit combo does she have ? 5 hps is normal for a druid's level up if it's multi and just level one of the classes.
On what level was she and ... everything you can tell us will help to replicate the result and try to find a thing to fix in it, if there's even a need for it.

Any idea how to rid of it without losing whole day? I don't even want to think about it. Maybe to install on top of all of it BG2 Tweaks component higher hit points neverwinter style hoping that it will overwrite this? Or I will sink even more in quicksand of tweaking? :rant:

Edit the hp****.2da tables with Near Infinity. And use the ShadowKeeper.

It would seem from my earlier experiments that the BGT-weidu could be a partially at fault... it has this hitpoint check script that has unwanted characteristics.

Edited by Jarno Mikkola, 15 March 2016 - 01:44 AM.

Welcome to the sanity, you are free to search for the limit, it's out there, we drew it in the sand.
Here's how to install all the ... mods you ever really could want to Infinity Engine games. I removed the stable word from there as Roxanne began to add BS mods that are likely to break compatibility from the BWS.

#19 Greenhorn

Greenhorn

    Chaotic good gibberling

  • Members
  • 131 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 15 March 2016 - 03:07 AM

 

Jaheira only got 5 hp of possible 12 with 17 constitution ...

Sorry, but what happened, what level did she got, was it only one of the dual classes or was it both ?
What class and kit combo does she have ? 5 hps is normal for a druid's level up if it's multi and just level one of the classes.
On what level was she and ... everything you can tell us will help to replicate the result and try to find a thing to fix in it, if there's even a need for it.

 


 

There is a need for it Imp, I can assure you, what happened is explained couple of posts above:

 

Could you please explain how this option works for multiclases:

Quote

 

 

  • Low Variance Rolls - All classes will only roll a d4 die and add a static modifier to make up the difference, resulting in a small spread of values at level up. So a barbarian, who normally rolls a d12 for HP, will instead roll d4+8 for a range of 9-12 HP instead of the normal 1-12. Mages and other classes that already roll d4 are unchanged; d6 rolls become 1d4+2, d8 rolls become 1d4+4, d10 1d4+6, and so on.

Be warned: without an Enhanced Edition game or TobEx, barbarian characters will interact badly with this component due to their hardcoded nature.

Jaheira only got 5 hp of possible 12 with 17 constitution  when  simultaneously leveled to  both fighter and druid from first to second level. Also barbarians role only 1d10 for starting level although I strongly suspect that another mod is culprit for this ( I have option maximum hit points at level 1 too ). 

P.S. game is on the "core" level

 

 

Edit the hp****.2da tables with Near Infinity. And use the ShadowKeeper.

It would seem from my earlier experiments that the BGT-weidu could be a partially at fault... it has this hitpoint check script that has unwanted characteristics.

Hmm, how could I do that? 

I'm terribly disappointed with this business. Releasing tweaking mod without even rudimentary testing is incomprehensible to me: " Oh, goodie, I made component which  completely change leveling hit points. Let's see if it works. I'll just level this character... nyah, no, I will release it as it is."

And then this gets "preferred" choice in BWS instead of old tweaks...


Edited by Greenhorn, 15 March 2016 - 03:29 AM.


#20 subtledoctor

subtledoctor
  • Modders
  • 2144 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 15 March 2016 - 03:23 AM

Just find the "hpxxx.2da" files (one for each class plus multiclasses) in your override folder and delete them.

As for testing: this is why BWS is a bad idea. People click a bunch of boxes, install a hundred mod without doing any research or reading any readmes, and expect everything to just be peachy-keen. And when BWS itself does something idiotic (like make a brand new component of a mod that states up-front it is a beta) people complain here instead of to BWS itself.

You haven't posted a weidu.log, or a BWS log, you haven't even mention which *game* you are using this with. I'm sure this WAS tested, but almost certainly not with some kind of BWS mega install. Different test installation = different results of testing.

Sorry to sound harsh, but this was all done out of people's free time, for no pay. If you pay for software with bugs, by all means howl to the high heavens about it. But with something voluntarily donated, and advertised as beta, the appropriate response is to *help,* not complain.

Edited by subtledoctor, 15 March 2016 - 03:34 AM.

Faiths & Powers: Spell spheres and kit pack for priests and paladins
Might & Guile: Tweaks and kits for warriors and rogues
Scales of Balance: Game tweaks and rule overhauls
NPC_EE: More options for NPCs in BGEE, SoD, & BG2EE


#21 Greenhorn

Greenhorn

    Chaotic good gibberling

  • Members
  • 131 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 15 March 2016 - 03:30 AM

Just find the "hpxxx.2da" files (one for each class plus multiclasses) in your override folder and delete them.

Thanks, it is game saver. I'll try it. 



#22 kreso

kreso
  • Modders
  • 2627 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Istra, Croatia

Posted 15 March 2016 - 03:47 AM

As for testing: this is why BWS is a bad idea. People click a bunch of boxes, install a hundred mod without doing any research or reading any readmes, and expect everything to just be peachy-keen. And when BWS itself does something idiotic (like make a brand new component of a mod that states up-front it is a beta) people complain here instead of to BWS itself.

This is true - I found Divine Remix (beta) as an option and rest asured,  it's bug-ridden. Unless BWP Fixpack took care of it.

In this particular instance it's this particular tweak from new Tweaks that's causing the bug. (it works the same on my game (BGT); HP doesn't get read from final column).

Per BWS - well, people seem to like it...I'd avoid it simply because there aren't enough good mods to warrant such an install procedure. 80% of stuff there is imo simply bad.



#23 kreso

kreso
  • Modders
  • 2627 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Istra, Croatia

Posted 15 March 2016 - 04:00 AM

Any idea how to rid of it without losing whole day? I don't even want to think about it. Maybe to install on top of all of it BG2 Tweaks component higher hit points neverwinter style hoping that it will overwrite this?

This will work, yes.



#24 Jarno Mikkola

Jarno Mikkola

    The Imp

  • Modders
  • 6201 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:The town where the dead haven't keeled over, yet. In Finland.

Posted 15 March 2016 - 04:09 AM

Per BWS - well, people seem to like it...I'd avoid it simply because there aren't enough good mods to warrant such an install procedure. 80% of stuff there is imo simply bad.

You could make an example install and ... ouh yeah I think it was you that did, just didn't maintain it, and wanted to get rid of the whole thing. You do know that you just throw your shit over the 80% of the moding community ? Good job.
Welcome to the sanity, you are free to search for the limit, it's out there, we drew it in the sand.
Here's how to install all the ... mods you ever really could want to Infinity Engine games. I removed the stable word from there as Roxanne began to add BS mods that are likely to break compatibility from the BWS.

#25 Greenhorn

Greenhorn

    Chaotic good gibberling

  • Members
  • 131 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 15 March 2016 - 04:36 AM

 

Any idea how to rid of it without losing whole day? I don't even want to think about it. Maybe to install on top of all of it BG2 Tweaks component higher hit points neverwinter style hoping that it will overwrite this?

This will work, yes.

 

Hej Krešo, kako je?  :)  Sadly no, I tried it in my save game with easy difficulty, didn't help. 

 

Just find the "hpxxx.2da" files (one for each class plus multiclasses) in your override folder and delete them.

As for testing: this is why BWS is a bad idea. People click a bunch of boxes, install a hundred mod without doing any research or reading any readmes, and expect everything to just be peachy-keen. And when BWS itself does something idiotic (like make a brand new component of a mod that states up-front it is a beta) people complain here instead of to BWS itself.

You haven't posted a weidu.log, or a BWS log, you haven't even mention which *game* you are using this with. I'm sure this WAS tested, but almost certainly not with some kind of BWS mega install. Different test installation = different results of testing.

Sorry to sound harsh, but this was all done out of people's free time, for no pay. If you pay for software with bugs, by all means howl to the high heavens about it. But with something voluntarily donated, and advertised as beta, the appropriate response is to *help,* not complain.

I really appreciate your help subtledoctor, and I don't want to sound confrontational and I don't know for others but I spend three months browsing various forums and readmes for mods I wanted to install  searching for bugs and problems so that my installation would be reasonably stable and bug free. So I didn't approach lightly and in blissful ignorance. As for my complaining about testing of this component I did it myself on clean patched install of ToB just now and guess what? I said truth. Not every criticism   is pointless bitching and I don't have to sing praises where it is not due. I respect CamDawg and his work tremendously but this one is flop ( because of lack of testing ). 



#26 Roxanne

Roxanne
  • Modders
  • 1573 posts
  • Gender:Not Telling

Posted 15 March 2016 - 04:44 AM

 

Per BWS - well, people seem to like it...I'd avoid it simply because there aren't enough good mods to warrant such an install procedure. 80% of stuff there is imo simply bad.

You could make an example install and ... ouh yeah I think it was you that did, just didn't maintain it, and wanted to get rid of the whole thing. You do know that you just throw your shit over the 80% of the moding community ? Good job.

 

Imp, in case you did not notice yet - he and his two buddies have to fill their weekly quota of insults to modders...


The Sandrah Saga

another piece of *buggy, cheesy, unbalanced junk*


#27 ALIENQuake

ALIENQuake
  • Modders
  • 381 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Poland

Posted 15 March 2016 - 04:51 AM

The reason to prefer new mods ( not every mod but Tweaks from Cam deserves to be preferred without a blink of an eye) instead of old mods which was coded years ago is to encourage new moders to find better ways to achieve something (EET_Tweaks XP adjustment!) and actually for testing purposes - without selecting new mods as default, nobody would actually test anything. Now we identified a bug and the solution will come soon - I prefer this way instead of suddenly discover such bug after half year. Feedback is welcome and I'm open to suggestion about this matter.


You cannot have progress without changes...


#28 CamDawg

CamDawg

    Seven billion ton robot monster

  • Gibberling Poobah
  • 9222 posts
  • Gender:Not Telling

Posted 15 March 2016 - 06:26 AM

I found two issues while installing on vanilla BG1 and vanilla IWD1:
 
- On BG1, "Send BioWare NPCs to an Inn" does not install because of a missing translation string; cause seems to be incorrect translation string references in the files cdtweaks/dlg/depart*.txt.
 
- On IWD1, "Friendly Random Drops" does not install because it tries to patch a non-existent file, rndtreas.2da.  Cause seems to be a logic error in file file cdtweaks/random/random_common.tpa at line #37.  The file is named rndtres.2da in vanilla IWD1, rndtreas.2da in BG2, so that "NOT"  should not be there.
 
I prepared a small hotfix containing my corrections here: http://www.pearlgate...ix_by_angel.zip

Thanks, I'll get this in the next beta.
 

This is because the "static modifier" part of the hpxxx.2da files is broken.  I mentioned this to @CamDawg over on the Beamdog forums, not sure if he noticed it.
 
To be honest, I only tested on BGEE.  It might not be broken on BG2EE/IWDEE.  It might work fine in 2.0... which would explain why CamDawg would see it working, as I assume he is running 2.0/SoD on his end.
 
But yeah at least for now, the "low variance rolls" component does not work.

Argh, yes. This is something I knew, then forgot, and now I know again. There was a reason that NWN-style used to change 1d10 to 5d2 instead of 1d5+5.
 
 

The reason to prefer new mods ( not every mod but Tweaks from Cam deserves to be preferred without a blink of an eye) instead of old mods which was coded years ago is to encourage new moders to find better ways to achieve something (EET_Tweaks XP adjustment!) and actually for testing purposes - without selecting new mods as default, nobody would actually test anything. Now we identified a bug and the solution will come soon - I prefer this way instead of suddenly discover such bug after half year. Feedback is welcome and I'm open to suggestion about this matter.

Greenhorn is correct--it's labeled beta for a reason, and shouldn't be pushed out to users yet unless they know what they're in for. I fully expect dumb bugs like this, especially considering how extensive the changes were.


I came here with a simple dream: a dream of killing all humans. And this is how it must end? Who's the real seven billion ton robot monster here? Not I. Not... I.


#29 subtledoctor

subtledoctor
  • Modders
  • 2144 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 15 March 2016 - 06:55 AM

It's still possible to do something like this, by putting the static modifier in hpconbon.2da instead of in hpwar.2da et al. The difficult there is in the fact that there's only one static modifier column that governs wizards, rogues, and priests. But you could have this system:
- Barbarians: 2d4+4
- Warriors: 2d3+4
- Priests: 3d2+2
- Rogues: 2d2+2
- Wizards: 1d2+2

That would pretty much meet the "low variance" definition...

Faiths & Powers: Spell spheres and kit pack for priests and paladins
Might & Guile: Tweaks and kits for warriors and rogues
Scales of Balance: Game tweaks and rule overhauls
NPC_EE: More options for NPCs in BGEE, SoD, & BG2EE


#30 CamDawg

CamDawg

    Seven billion ton robot monster

  • Gibberling Poobah
  • 9222 posts
  • Gender:Not Telling

Posted 15 March 2016 - 06:59 AM

It's still possible to do something like this, by putting the static modifier in hpconbon.2da instead of in hpwar.2da et al. The difficult there is in the fact that there's only one static modifier column that governs wizards, rogues, and priests. But you could have this system:
- Barbarians: 2d4+4
- Warriors: 2d3+4
- Priests: 3d2+2
- Rogues: 2d2+2
- Wizards: 1d2+2

That would pretty much meet the "low variance" definition...

Right, but in an EE world, anyone can have a custom HP table, meaning the CON bonuses may need to be different per kit. You could do it down at CLAB level, but that introduces even more points of failure for a component I added as a lark.

 

Nah, I'll just withdraw Low Variance and revert the NWN/Max options back to the old, working way.


I came here with a simple dream: a dream of killing all humans. And this is how it must end? Who's the real seven billion ton robot monster here? Not I. Not... I.




Reply to this topic



  


0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users