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Unbalanced encounters


toxin

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SCS does a great job in making enemies smarter and more challenging, but sometimes it does too good a job, resulting in unbalanced encounters. I perceive an encounter to be unbalanced if one of the following holds true:

  1. It is much tougher than other encounters in the area - sometimes absurdly so, to the point of appearing out of place. Many times it will be much tougher than the area's "boss" encounter.
  2. It is nigh-impossible for a party at a reasonable level for that part of the game. My reference is usually the level in which an NPC will join you in that area (or one nearby) - I gather this depends on the level your party is at to an extent so my playing order is affecting it but I think it's good enough for a ballpark figure.

This is the list I've got so far going by memory, having reached the underdark (coded per the notation above):

  1. Vampires in Firkaag's dungeon - related thread
  2. Ihtafeer and friends - related thread
  3. Lavok - this is really annoying as you'll be cruising along the sphere, crushing most enemies on the first floor, completely clearing it and then find out you are not remotely strong enough to defeat Lavok (and probably not the cowled wizards at the bottom, too). So you have to reload before you even entered the sphere and come back some time much later in the game.
  4. Perth the Adept - that guy is throwing around spell traps and pit fiends like nothing, totally out of place in Brynnlaw, especially for a "plot" character (you can easily find yourself in a situation where you have to kill him to proceed). It also makes no sense that he's more powerful than later mages such as Irenicus himself in the Asylum, or the best drow mages of the Ust Natha tavern.
  5. Drow party in initial underdardk
  6. Beholder lair. There's a point where you encounter 3 beholders + 2 gauths but then 2/3 beholders + 1 elder orb join them and the battle becomes simply ridiculous. Even if you have the shield of Balduran, it is quickly snatched by telekenisis and you are dead about 2 rounds after that (turned to stone or some such). I tried for hours and finally gave up sent out death knights to do the job (man are those guys effective against beholders!). Again this is in contrast to the consistency of the area, both in the lair itself where you meet much weaker packs of beholders, and generally in the underdark where in the Ust Natha tavern a single beholder is portrayed as the ultimate enemy nobody has ever beaten.
  7. Deirex - this guy is absurdly more powerful than your party. There is no way you can handle pit fiends, fallen planetars, time stops, comets etc. The only way I could beat him reliably was with PW:Silence before his defenses came up, felt a bit cheesy (though I did go in invisible and I did know I would face a lich beforehand).

The balance issues can be solved in many ways, for example:

  1. Reduce hit dice of enemies
  2. Reduce number of "upgraded" creatures (e.g. elder/ancient vampires) or casters
  3. Replace the encounter with something different - weaker variants of the same type or even something entirely different (possibly more fitting to the setting).
  4. Remove the encounter altogether (maybe put some traps instead)

I thought this thread could serve as a reference for such encounters (feel free to share your examples) and of course related discussion - I'm sure some hard core players here will disagree with my definition of "unbalanced challenge" :)

 

My Weidu log for reference: http://pastebin.com/J11B1Nnu

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I'm not a hardcore player but I would be dissapointed if encounter were removed or hit dice reduced... I only agree with Lavok that was a painful encounter and perhaps Ithafeer that was annoying to me but the vampires and the drow with careful planning are not unbalanced to me.

When you find yourself in the underdark you shoul feel opressed and encounters here should be challenging for your life, just for the fact that creatures that live here are powerful beings (beholders, illithids and drows are powerful races after all)

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Careful planning can make many encounters easier, but I don't like preparing specifically for encounters I'm not supposed to know are coming (feels like cheating). I guess what bothers me is how a completely random encounter I'm not supposed to be especially prepared for (as opposed to boss/hyped battles) is super-difficult out of nowhere, much more than anything else in the area (including aforementioned boss battles). It just seems unfair and out of place.

 

Regarding the rakshasas, the main problem is their spell immunity up to level 8 that includes breach which makes them pretty much untouchable for mid-level parties. However their immunity to breach is due to a bug in the "consistent breach" component (discussed in the linked thread), so I agree it's debatable whether it should make this list (for sure, once the bug is fixed it can be removed).

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  1. Vampires in Firkaag's dungeon (1) - related thread
  2. Ihtafeer and friends (1) - related thread
  3. Lavok (1,2[Valygar]) - this is really annoying as you'll be cruising along the sphere, crushing most enemies on the first floor, completely clearing it and then find out you are not remotely strong enough to defeat Lavok (and probably not the cowled wizards at the bottom, too). So you have to reload before you even entered the sphere and come back some time much later in the game.
  4. Drow party in initial underdardk (1,2[imoen])

 

1. Prove me wrong but IIRC these/those(?) vampires (ancient, elder) are added by Questpack not SCS.

2. not really that hard in SCS30, Improved Faldorn is more tricky imo if you are fighting her like a real man

3. only hard with HLAs for mages installed. when someone is installing "HLAs for all egliglebe mages" pretty sure he knows what he is doing, eh?

4. LOL try this in Improved Anvil 5 ;]]]]

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1. Prove me wrong but IIRC these/those(?) vampires (ancient, elder) are added by Questpack not SCS.

2. not really that hard in SCS30, Improved Faldorn is more tricky imo if you are fighting her like a real man

3. only hard with HLAs for mages installed. when someone is installing "HLAs for all egliglebe mages" pretty sure he knows what he is doing, eh?

4. LOL try this in Improved Anvil 5 ;]]]]

 

 

I don't have questpack installed. I think the vampires were always there but SCS just made them much stronger.

 

Regarding the rest, I intentionally gave specific criteria for unbalanced encounters because just looking at a specific encounter in isolation and deeming it hard or not is too subjective. The way I see it, BG2 was designed with some progression of difficulty in mind. Each area has some approximate level you should be in to comfortably beat it, and that is usually consistent in two aspects:

 

1. Area. Most encounters in a certain area are of similar consistency (of course there are spikes to make things interesting, but they are mild), except for the boss encounter which is somewhat tougher. Of course there are also "bonus" encounters like liches and dragons that you should take on when you feel ready - it's not a coincidence that Firkaag doesn't force you to fight him once you complete the dungeon.

2. Plot. Monsters get tougher as you progress in the game, in a rate that pretty much mirrors your own progression.

 

The problem with mods such as SCS is that they make game-wide changes without considering this balance, and end up disrupting it, sometimes greatly. The vampires and Drow are good examples, I think. I'm not saying they are impossible, just disruptive to the balance. Sometimes they end up disrupting the plot, like in the case of Perth the Adept which is much more powerful than Irenicus when you face him in the asylum, which doesn't make any sense. A certain encounter in the beholder lair is also completely out of place (added both to the list).

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That would require something much more subtle than what a general AI mod like this is capable of. I agree with the inconsistency in difficulty progression, but SCS is only there to wring as much challenge out of the vanilla encounters as possible without cheating (much). I do think SCS goes overboard in a lot of cases, almost like rules-lawyering about what is or isn't cheating (BG1's Kark the ogre-mage is one of the most egregious examples). Other than hand-crafting every encounter area-by-area, I wouldn't even be able to make a suggestion to correct these issues. Did you have something in mind?

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That would require something much more subtle than what a general AI mod like this is capable of. I agree with the inconsistency in difficulty progression, but SCS is only there to wring as much challenge out of the vanilla encounters as possible without cheating (much). I do think SCS goes overboard in a lot of cases, almost like rules-lawyering about what is or isn't cheating (BG1's Kark the ogre-mage is one of the most egregious examples). Other than hand-crafting every encounter area-by-area, I wouldn't even be able to make a suggestion to correct these issues. Did you have something in mind?

I was thinking we could refine the list I made in the first post above (which is where SCS goes overboard IMHO) until it's somewhat complete, and then hand craft these select encounters. I don't think there are too many of them - I'm in chapter 6 and the list only contains 6 encounters so far...

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I admit that the line where an encounter goes overboard is not totally clear though. For example, I was tempted to add the demon knights in the underdark west caverns, because those guys are super tough and 10 times harder than anything in the vicinity, and 5 of them together is somewhat of an over kill. However since it's an optional encounter where you are given a clue of what you'll be facing, as well as all the time you want to prepare (buff, summon, etc) I figured it's cool (though in my heart I still feel like I won that only due to my excessive summoning :)).

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(though in my heart I still feel like I won that only due to my excessive summoning :)).

Well, if you have the capability to summon creatures, in a difficult encounter, there's no reason not to(unless they die TOO fast). Or do you send many of your fighters naked with a -5 daggers equipped on their hands ?

You have not added your weidu.log's content to the thread(open the file with Notepad and copy paste)... you should. And then consider that you might not have an argument if you installed a mod that features said content. Your weidu log:

// Log of Currently Installed WeiDU Mods

// The top of the file is the 'oldest' mod

// ~TP2_File~ #language_number #component_number // [subcomponent Name -> ] Component Name [ : Version]

~SPELL_REV/SETUP-SPELL_REV.TP2~ #0 #0 // Spell Revisions: v4 Beta 10.1

~SPELL_REV/SETUP-SPELL_REV.TP2~ #0 #10 // Deva and Planetar Animations: v4 Beta 10.1

~SPELL_REV/SETUP-SPELL_REV.TP2~ #0 #20 // Mirror Image Fix: v4 Beta 10.1

~SPELL_REV/SETUP-SPELL_REV.TP2~ #0 #30 // Dispel Magic Fix: v4 Beta 10.1

~SPELL_REV/SETUP-SPELL_REV.TP2~ #0 #50 // Remove Disabled Spells from Spell Selection Screens: v4 Beta 10.1

~SPELL_REV/SETUP-SPELL_REV.TP2~ #0 #70 // Update Spellbooks of Joinable NPCs: v4 Beta 10.1

~BREACHIER/BREACHIER.TP2~ #0 #0 // breachier breach

~BG2_TWEAKS/SETUP-BG2_TWEAKS.TP2~ #0 #20 // Change Imoen's Avatar to Mage: v16

~BG2_TWEAKS/SETUP-BG2_TWEAKS.TP2~ #0 #40 // Change Viconia's Skin Color to Dark Blue: v16

~BG2_TWEAKS/SETUP-BG2_TWEAKS.TP2~ #0 #60 // Weapon Animation Tweaks: v16

~BG2_TWEAKS/SETUP-BG2_TWEAKS.TP2~ #0 #100 // Commoners Use Drab Colors: v16

~BG2_TWEAKS/SETUP-BG2_TWEAKS.TP2~ #0 #110 // Icon Improvements: v16

~BG2_TWEAKS/SETUP-BG2_TWEAKS.TP2~ #0 #120 // Change Avatar When Wearing Robes or Armor (Galactygon): v16

~BG2_TWEAKS/SETUP-BG2_TWEAKS.TP2~ #0 #140 // Fix Boo's Squeak: v16

~BG2_TWEAKS/SETUP-BG2_TWEAKS.TP2~ #0 #1010 // More Interjections: v16

~BG2_TWEAKS/SETUP-BG2_TWEAKS.TP2~ #0 #1020 // Alter HP Triggers for NPC Wounded Dialogues: v16

~BG2_TWEAKS/SETUP-BG2_TWEAKS.TP2~ #0 #1040 // Improved Athkatlan City Guard: v16

~BG2_TWEAKS/SETUP-BG2_TWEAKS.TP2~ #0 #1080 // Add Bags of Holding: v16

~BG2_TWEAKS/SETUP-BG2_TWEAKS.TP2~ #0 #1101 // Do Not Reveal City Maps When Entering Area: v16

~BG2_TWEAKS/SETUP-BG2_TWEAKS.TP2~ #0 #1120 // Stores Sell Higher Stacks of Items: v16

~BG2_TWEAKS/SETUP-BG2_TWEAKS.TP2~ #0 #1161 // Multiple Strongholds (Baldurdash) -> Keep Class Restrictions: v16

~BG2_TWEAKS/SETUP-BG2_TWEAKS.TP2~ #0 #1180 // Female Edwina: v16

~BG2_TWEAKS/SETUP-BG2_TWEAKS.TP2~ #0 #1230 // Allow Cespenar to Use Cromwell Recipes: v16

~BG2_TWEAKS/SETUP-BG2_TWEAKS.TP2~ #0 #2020 // Two-Handed Bastard Swords: v16

~BG2_TWEAKS/SETUP-BG2_TWEAKS.TP2~ #0 #2040 // Universal Clubs: v16

~BG2_TWEAKS/SETUP-BG2_TWEAKS.TP2~ #0 #2150 // Wear Multiple Protection Items -> P&P Restrictions: v16

~BG2_TWEAKS/SETUP-BG2_TWEAKS.TP2~ #0 #2192 // Limit Ability of Storekeepers to Identify Items -> Hybrid of Both Methods: v16

~BG2_TWEAKS/SETUP-BG2_TWEAKS.TP2~ #0 #2220 // Change Magically Created Weapons to Zero Weight: v16

~BG2_TWEAKS/SETUP-BG2_TWEAKS.TP2~ #0 #2320 // Trap Cap Removal (Ardanis/GeN1e): v16

~BG2_TWEAKS/SETUP-BG2_TWEAKS.TP2~ #0 #2339 // Remove Summoning Cap for Regular Summons: v16

~BG2_TWEAKS/SETUP-BG2_TWEAKS.TP2~ #0 #3121 // Happy Patch (Party NPCs do not complain about reputation) -> NPCs Can Be Angry About Reputation but Never Leave (Salk): v16

~BG2_TWEAKS/SETUP-BG2_TWEAKS.TP2~ #0 #3123 // NPCs Don't Fight: v16

~BG2_TWEAKS/SETUP-BG2_TWEAKS.TP2~ #0 #3125 // Neutral Characters Make Happy Comments at Mid-Range Reputation: v16

~BG2_TWEAKS/SETUP-BG2_TWEAKS.TP2~ #0 #3170 // No Drow Avatars On Party In Underdark: v16

~BG2_TWEAKS/SETUP-BG2_TWEAKS.TP2~ #0 #3200 // Sellable Items (Icelus): v16

~BG2_TWEAKS/SETUP-BG2_TWEAKS.TP2~ #0 #4010 // Improved Fate Spirit Summoning: v16

~DISPELS/DISPELS.TP2~ #0 #0 // AoE Dispelling Screen: 1

~STRATAGEMS/SETUP-STRATAGEMS.TP2~ #0 #1000 // Initialise mod (all other components require this): v30

~STRATAGEMS/SETUP-STRATAGEMS.TP2~ #0 #2010 // More consistent Breach spell (always affects liches and rakshasas; doesn't penetrate Spell Turning): v30

~STRATAGEMS/SETUP-STRATAGEMS.TP2~ #0 #2020 // Antimagic attacks penetrate improved invisibility: v30

~STRATAGEMS/SETUP-STRATAGEMS.TP2~ #0 #2050 // Allow individual versions of Spell Immunity to be placed into Contingencies and Spell Triggers: v30

~STRATAGEMS/SETUP-STRATAGEMS.TP2~ #0 #2111 // Reduce the power of Inquisitors' Dispel Magic -> Inquisitors dispel at their level (not twice their level): v30

~STRATAGEMS/SETUP-STRATAGEMS.TP2~ #0 #2160 // Add an extra copy of some hard-to-find spell scrolls: v30

~STRATAGEMS/SETUP-STRATAGEMS.TP2~ #0 #2170 // True Sight/True Seeing spells protect from magical blindness: v30

~STRATAGEMS/SETUP-STRATAGEMS.TP2~ #0 #3010 // Replace +1 arrows with nonmagical "fine" ones: v30

~STRATAGEMS/SETUP-STRATAGEMS.TP2~ #0 #3020 // Replace +1 magical weapons with Fine ones: v30

~STRATAGEMS/SETUP-STRATAGEMS.TP2~ #0 #3040 // Reduce the number of Arrows of Dispelling in stores -> Remove Arrows of Dispelling from stores: v30

~STRATAGEMS/SETUP-STRATAGEMS.TP2~ #0 #3060 // Remove the invisibility power of the Staff of the Magi: v30

~STRATAGEMS/SETUP-STRATAGEMS.TP2~ #0 #3110 // Change Carsomyr so that its Dispel on contact power grants a saving throw: v30

~STRATAGEMS/SETUP-STRATAGEMS.TP2~ #0 #4010 // Grant large, flying, non-solid or similar creatures protection from Web and Entangle: v30

~STRATAGEMS/SETUP-STRATAGEMS.TP2~ #0 #4030 // Improved shapeshifting: v30

~STRATAGEMS/SETUP-STRATAGEMS.TP2~ #0 #4040 // Make party members less likely to die irreversibly: v30

~STRATAGEMS/SETUP-STRATAGEMS.TP2~ #0 #4051 // Decrease the rate at which reputation improves -> Reputation increases at about 1/2 the normal rate: v30

~STRATAGEMS/SETUP-STRATAGEMS.TP2~ #0 #4160 // Increase the price of a license to practise magic in Athkatla -> License costs 10,000 gp: v30

~STRATAGEMS/SETUP-STRATAGEMS.TP2~ #0 #4170 // Increase the price asked by Gaelan Bayle -> Gaelan wants 40,000 gold pieces: v30

~STRATAGEMS/SETUP-STRATAGEMS.TP2~ #0 #4180 // Make Freedom scrolls available earlier: v30

~STRATAGEMS/SETUP-STRATAGEMS.TP2~ #0 #4215 // Remove unrealistically helpful items from certain areas: v30

~STRATAGEMS/SETUP-STRATAGEMS.TP2~ #0 #4240 // Treat mages' and priests' High-Level Abilities as innate abilities rather than memorisable spells (each may be taken only once): v30

~STRATAGEMS/SETUP-STRATAGEMS.TP2~ #0 #5000 // Ease-of-use party AI: v30

~STRATAGEMS/SETUP-STRATAGEMS.TP2~ #0 #5030 // Remove animation from the Cloak of Mirroring (leave it for other spells and effects that use the same graphic): v30

~STRATAGEMS/SETUP-STRATAGEMS.TP2~ #0 #5900 // Initialise AI components (required for all tactical and AI components): v30

~STRATAGEMS/SETUP-STRATAGEMS.TP2~ #0 #6000 // Smarter general AI: v30

~STRATAGEMS/SETUP-STRATAGEMS.TP2~ #0 #6010 // Better calls for help: v30

~STRATAGEMS/SETUP-STRATAGEMS.TP2~ #0 #6021 // Add high-level abilities (HLAs) to spellcasters -> Only selected spellcasters in Throne of Bhaal and Shadows of Amn get HLAs: v30

~STRATAGEMS/SETUP-STRATAGEMS.TP2~ #0 #6033 // Smarter Mages -> Mages in BG1 cast short-duration spells instantly at start of combat; mages in BG2 only do so if they are created in sight of the PC: v30

~STRATAGEMS/SETUP-STRATAGEMS.TP2~ #0 #6041 // Smarter Priests -> Priests only cast short-duration spells instantly at start of combat if they are created in sight of the PC: v30

~STRATAGEMS/SETUP-STRATAGEMS.TP2~ #0 #6101 // Potions for NPCs -> One third of the potions dropped by slain enemies break and are lost: v30

~STRATAGEMS/SETUP-STRATAGEMS.TP2~ #0 #6200 // Improved Spiders: v30

~STRATAGEMS/SETUP-STRATAGEMS.TP2~ #0 #6500 // Improved golems: v30

~STRATAGEMS/SETUP-STRATAGEMS.TP2~ #0 #6510 // Improved fiends -> Fiends have about 50 percent more hit points than normal: v30

~STRATAGEMS/SETUP-STRATAGEMS.TP2~ #0 #6521 // Smarter genies -> Genies have normal hit points: v30

~STRATAGEMS/SETUP-STRATAGEMS.TP2~ #0 #6531 // Smarter celestials -> Celestials have normal hit points: v30

~STRATAGEMS/SETUP-STRATAGEMS.TP2~ #0 #6540 // Smarter dragons -> Dragons have a substantial hit point increase: v30

~STRATAGEMS/SETUP-STRATAGEMS.TP2~ #0 #6550 // Smarter beholders -> Give beholder rays some chance to "burn through" spell protections; beholder antimagic blocks all spells, including harmful ones, for a round (simulates D&D rules): v30

~STRATAGEMS/SETUP-STRATAGEMS.TP2~ #0 #6562 // Smarter mind flayers -> Illithids have only original-game resistances; Illithids cannot see invisible enemies (matches original game): v30

~STRATAGEMS/SETUP-STRATAGEMS.TP2~ #0 #6570 // Smarter githyanki: v30

~STRATAGEMS/SETUP-STRATAGEMS.TP2~ #0 #6580 // Improved Vampires: v30

~STRATAGEMS/SETUP-STRATAGEMS.TP2~ #0 #6590 // Smarter Throne of Bhaal final villain: v30

~ATWEAKS/SETUP-ATWEAKS.TP2~ #0 #100 // Restore innate infravision to Half-Orc characters: v4.50b1

~ATWEAKS/SETUP-ATWEAKS.TP2~ #0 #101 // Prevent skeletal and incorporeal undead from being affected by Illithids' Devour Brain attack: v4.50b1

~ATWEAKS/SETUP-ATWEAKS.TP2~ #0 #110 // Magical arrows and bolts deal bonus damage equal to their enchantment level: v4.50b1

~ATWEAKS/SETUP-ATWEAKS.TP2~ #0 #120 // Restore innate disease immunity to Paladins: v4.50b1

~ATWEAKS/SETUP-ATWEAKS.TP2~ #0 #125 // Rangers' Animal Empathy improves with experience: v4.50b1

~ATWEAKS/SETUP-ATWEAKS.TP2~ #0 #130 // Additional racial traits for Dwarves: v4.50b1

~ATWEAKS/SETUP-ATWEAKS.TP2~ #0 #140 // Additional racial traits for Gnomes: v4.50b1

~ATWEAKS/SETUP-ATWEAKS.TP2~ #0 #160 // PnP Undead: v4.50b1

~ATWEAKS/SETUP-ATWEAKS.TP2~ #0 #180 // PnP Mephits: v4.50b1

~ATWEAKS/SETUP-ATWEAKS.TP2~ #0 #185 // PnP Fey creatures: v4.50b1

~ATWEAKS/SETUP-ATWEAKS.TP2~ #0 #190 // PnP Elementals: v4.50b1

~ATWEAKS/SETUP-ATWEAKS.TP2~ #0 #191 // Increase the Hit Dice of Elemental Princes: v4.50b1

~ATWEAKS/SETUP-ATWEAKS.TP2~ #0 #200 // Allow Breach to take down Stoneskin effects applied by items: v4.50b1

~ATWEAKS/SETUP-ATWEAKS.TP2~ #0 #201 // Instant casting for warrior innates: v4.50b1

~ATWEAKS/SETUP-ATWEAKS.TP2~ #0 #202 // Revised Bhaalpowers -> Enhance the Bhaalpowers and standardize their casting time: v4.50b1

~ATWEAKS/SETUP-ATWEAKS.TP2~ #0 #218 // Regain Bhaalpowers in ToB: v4.50b1

~ATWEAKS/SETUP-ATWEAKS.TP2~ #0 #203 // Make druidic shapeshifting uninterruptable: v4.50b1

~ATWEAKS/SETUP-ATWEAKS.TP2~ #0 #210 // Restore the Dispel Magic vulnerability to Nishruu and Hakeashars: v4.50b1

~ATWEAKS/SETUP-ATWEAKS.TP2~ #0 #213 // Expanded saving throw bonus tables for Dwarves, Gnomes and Halflings: v4.50b1

~ATWEAKS/SETUP-ATWEAKS.TP2~ #0 #217 // Bard songs break invisibility -> All Bard songs break invisibility: v4.50b1

~ATWEAKS/SETUP-ATWEAKS.TP2~ #0 #261 // Altered XP rewards from locks, traps and scrolls -> Improved (lowered) XP rewards from locks, traps and scrolls: v4.50b1

~ATWEAKS/SETUP-ATWEAKS.TP2~ #0 #270 // Unbiased quest rewards: v4.50b1

~ATWEAKS/SETUP-ATWEAKS.TP2~ #0 #220 // Simple Thief script: v4.50b1

~ATWEAKS/SETUP-ATWEAKS.TP2~ #0 #230 // Simple Bard script: v4.50b1

~ATWEAKS/SETUP-ATWEAKS.TP2~ #0 #239 // Simple Cleric/Paladin script: v4.50b1

~ATWEAKS/SETUP-ATWEAKS.TP2~ #0 #323 // Use Icewind Dale's Dimension Door animation -> Use IWD animation for spells, retain BG2 animation for other visuals: v4.50b1

~ATWEAKS/SETUP-ATWEAKS.TP2~ #0 #301 // Change the appearance of Valygar's armor: v4.50b1

~ATWEAKS/SETUP-ATWEAKS.TP2~ #0 #302 // Change the appearance of the Robe of Vecna: v4.50b1

~ATWEAKS/SETUP-ATWEAKS.TP2~ #0 #310 // Distinctive creature coloring: v4.50b1

~ATWEAKS/SETUP-ATWEAKS.TP2~ #0 #315 // Distinctive creature soundsets: v4.50b1

~ATWEAKS/SETUP-ATWEAKS.TP2~ #0 #510 // Expanded temple services: v4.50b1

 

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i think it depends on how you look at it...

 

stoneskin for example lasts for hours like skeletons and skeleton warriors so ideally there is no reason why you shouldn't have these at all times specially in dangerous areas. and other buffs like resist fear, haste, bless, etc are fast to cast. Granted you can't take your summons with you when travelling to other area, something that should change

 

these spikes in difficulty make the game interesting. you don't actually say it but you seem to favor scaling enemies something i'm totally opposed to.

the solutions you proposed would make those areas/encounters bland by comparison instead of memorable even if you remember them for frustrating/ wrong reasons

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All your buffs are gone after one cast of Dispel Magic from an enemy mage (which is typically much higher level than you), and save for a few they don't last long enough anyway to walk around with (none of the ones you mentioned do). So unless you use your "out of game" knowledge of a coming encounter to cast them beforehand (e.g. dying and then reloading) which I personally view as cheating, you won't have them on except for specific encounters the plot warns you about. These encounters, by the way, totally make sense to be more difficult, enough so that they make the area memorable (and that's generally how it works in the vanilla game). But still, they should retain some consistency - I just can't see how a random mage in some house is more powerful than Jon Irenicus who took out the entire order of the Cowled Wizrads.

 

I'm not sure what you mean about scaling enemies. There is no other way. Would you have elder earth elementals protect the circus tent at the promenade and gibberlings protect the tree of life in Suldanessellar? Scaling must be done to maintain a proper challenge (not too easy, not impossibly or tediously difficult). That doesn't mean there aren't going to be spikes in difficulty, just that they should be normalized as well. And again, they should have some thought behind them. The way it is now, they are basically created randomly due to blanket changes made by SCS.

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what i mean is that the enemies are pre determined. they do not change depending on your level. if the game designers had determined that earth elementals were to protect the circus then that would be what you would find. From a gaming perspective you should be able to find out you would find a dangerous foe and make the decision to either face them or not.

 

and speaking about the circus iirc you are warned about the enemy you will face and have the option to run away

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They don't change depending on your level, but they are determined according to your expected level in any given area. When that is not the case, the game indeed informs you just like you said - Firkraag and the shadow dragon are great examples, where you get the explicit option to fight them exactly when you feel ready. Like you said, the designers created a certain balance and a certain scaling progression - but blanket changes made by mods arbitrarily disrupt that balance.

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I love what SCS does in it's general concept, but I can see the OP'S point that some of these encounters with the enhanced ai do almost require metagaming/knowledge of the encounter beforehand to be successfully handled, which for someone mostly interested in tactical challenges is dandy, but from a role playing perspective ruins immersion somewhat.

 

The problem isn't necessarily SCS though, as much as how bioware placed and set up these encounters in the vanilla game. Keep in mind the abysmal ai the foes originally had (especially caster types) - there are times I'm guessing they almost had to ramp up the difficulty because of poor ai - now you improve the ai to SCS levels, maybe throw in atweaks pnp enhancements as well, etc (which I generally do), and certain encounters naturally become nigh impossible to manage without playing a sort of metagaming chessmatch.

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