Remove Curse effect: how much is it used by the game?

[subtledoctor]

I'm planning a new mod and I want to hijack the "Remove Curse" opcode to be part of the new abilities. But I'm wondering how much it will interfere with the rest of the game.

 

For instance, it might spontaneously and erroneously unequip cursed items if the player has any such items equipped. This is acceptable to me, because those items are a joke the nobody equips in the first place.

 

But is the effect used elsewhere? Like, will an unplanned Remove Curse mess up the Baron Ployer quest? Or is that all scripted?

 

Etc. Any info appreciated.

[Jarno Mikkola]

It might be worth to say what are you planning ?

[subtledoctor]

In short, this is to recreate bard songs after moving bards to become thief kits.

 

A "song"would now be an innate ability, say, that provides protection from Fear and +1 to thac0 to all allies for 10 rounds. The bard can do stuff like fight during that time (yay, lots of players have been clamoring for this). BUT, if the bard gets hit, the song is interrupted and the effects cease.

 

Functionally, I will apply the bard song effects to allies via the "apply effect as curse" opcode (283 I think?). It will also apply a contingency effect to the bard such that, if he takes damage, it will cast a spell that causes Remove Curse to be applied via inareapa.pro, thus removing the bard song effects from allies.

 

I think this is rathe clever. And it works for enemies too, so stuff like the Jester's song would work here. In fact I'm working on a few dozen abilities to represent bardic magic/songs:

 

https://forums.beamdog.com/discussion/comment/676208/#Comment_676208

[Roxanne]

Some info I have at hand from recent investigation

1. Jaheirah's curse is scripted and cannot be removed by spell - you have to solve her quest for it

2. Not all *cursed items* are jokes (like girdle of gender you may have in mind), some offer quite some benefit if you are willing to trade it for the curse they randomly apply - so erroneously stripping your PC/NPC based on the joke argument is not a good idea

3, Remove curse itself has probably not being adjusted for some time to match with some curses in the game (cursed wounds afflicted by golems as introduced by some mod recently comes to my mind here)

4, Like in most cases like this, it is never a good idea to replace/remove existing features from the game - just asking around on one forum may not be enough to investigate the possible impact

5. You need it in some situations in the game, e.g. Watcher's Keep game of cards : "Strength. An extremely high suit. ... Do you have meanings of breaking curses, mortal?" - Without the spell you will be unable to ever move again if you loose the riddle.

[subtledoctor]

2. Not all *cursed items* are jokes (like girdle of gender you may have in mind), some offer quite some benefit if you are willing to trade it for the curse they randomly apply - so erroneously stripping your PC/NPC based on the joke argument is not a good idea

I disagree: the way the game handles cursed items is a complete joke. They're like little traps deposited for people who are too lazy to use Identify before equipping something, AND have not read a walkthrough or played the game a few times. And if you are that careless, the cost is just an extra night at an inn and maybe an extra scroll to buy. Basically, more annoyance for the player than interesting in-game consequences for the *character.*

 

Some cursed items are indeed interesting and powerful - it is quite reasonable to equip the Sword of Berserking on purpose. But, when a player *wants* to equip the item, it is very much a joke for the game to, in essence, say "ha ha, gotcha! Now you can't unequip it!" At worst, it just involves more annoyance for the player, casting Remove Curse to unequip and equip the item.

 

tl;dr: Items like that should behave like the Claw of Kazgoroth, with upsides and downsides, and players can use them or not as they see fit. The "can't unequip it" mechanism is stupid. If the Sword of Berserking could be equipped and unequipped at will, the calculus for whether or not to use it would not change one bit.

[Fiann of the Silver Hand]

Does Salk's mod use this effect? I don't recall. That'd be a good research point since it's an attempt to make the implementation of cursed items better.

 

Items like that should behave like the Claw of Kazgoroth, with upsides and downsides, and players can use them or not as they see fit. The "can't unequip it" mechanism is stupid.

 

Have my complete and utter agreement:

[subtledoctor]

Does Salk's mod use this effect? I don't recall. That'd be a good research point since it's an attempt to make the implementation of cursed items better.

Good point. He's done a tone of research into these items, I should read up on his threads about them.

 

5. You need it in some situations in the game, e.g. Watcher's Keep game of cards : "Strength. An extremely high suit. ... Do you have meanings of breaking curses, mortal?" - Without the spell you will be unable to ever move again if you loose the riddle.

Anyone know of any other instance of the game using this effect in ways that are unrelated to items?

[subtledoctor]

Looks like Salk's mod actually eliminates the "can't unequip it" mechanic. So, there would be no compatibility problems there at least.

[subtledoctor]

WAIT -

 

I just remembered that this mod is going to be EE-only. So, ah, forget it, I don't need to use curses, I can just use opcode 321.

 

I still think my "effects as curse" + "remove curse on contingency" idea is pretty clever. Maybe I'll go back to my original idea, using that for a psionicist class.

[Fiann of the Silver Hand]

I still think my "effects as curse" + "remove curse on contingency" idea is pretty clever. Maybe I'll go back to my original idea, using that for a psionicist class.

 

"Cursed" as a new sec type, with bonus IDS targeting included.

[Avenger]

Just mentioning as extra info: there is an 'apply effect as curse' opcode, which is removed by the remove curse opcode.

[subtledoctor]

@Avenger right, that's precisely what I was considering using for s new variant of bard songs: e.g. apply the Bless effect as a curse, then apply a "cast spell on condition" to the bard caster, where if he takes damage it will cast an area-wide Remove Curse, thus "interrupting" the bard song.

 

My other thought was to use this technique for psionic abilities. Or basically anything where the caster needs to concentrate to maintain a spell effect.

 

But like I say, with opcode 321 in the EEs this is unnecessary.

 

For the record, the reason this mod will be EE-only is because it will have thief kits that lack access to certain thief skills - like, "bards" will be a thief kit, with no access to Hide In Shadows or Move Silently. That can only be done in the EE engine.