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balancing FP&PS


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#1 subtledoctor

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Posted 19 January 2013 - 03:56 PM

This mod is great in concept, and to some extent it is great in execution. But I have noticed some issues that users have with it:
1) 'medium' armors, especially studded leather, seem very weak
2) the % resistance doesn't scale very well from early game to late game because the difference between, 15% and 30% and 40% resistance just isn't very much when hits are doing less than 20 damage.

My suggestion? Simplify. First, replace the different resistances for slashing/crushing/piercing/missile with a simple DR. I understand the concept behind the differences, but it just doesn't translate well in the game's system, because again, such small differences in value don't do much. And anyway, there's still the AC difference vs. different damage types.

Second: increase the DEX penalty for armors, and increase the AC bonus for high DEX. No armor/light armor AC bonus should be due to dodging - AC for light armor and heavy armor should be the same, only DEX should make a difference.

Third: AC values applied by the mod seem kind of arbitrary. Adopt a simple system of base armor / masterwork/low-enchantment armor / mid-enchantment armor / legendary armor, at AC values of something like 7/6/3/0. Make the DEX penalty drop a bit between the first two categories, to show the difference in fit and quality between average armor and high-quality armor suitable for enchanting. So:

DEX AC BONUS
14 -1
15 -2
16 -3
17 -4
18 -5
19 -6
20 -7

ARMOR NORMAL QUALITY MAGIC LEGENDARY
Leather AC7/-1Dex AC6 AC3 AC0
Studded AC7/-2Dex AC6/-1Dex AC3/-1Dex AC0/-1Dex all at 12% DR
Chain AC7/-3Dex AC6/-2Dex AC3/-2Dex AC0/-2Dex all at 30% DR
Splint AC7/-4Dex AC6/-3Dex AC3/-3Dex AC0/-3Dex all at 40% DR
Plate AC7/-5Dex AC6/-4Dex AC3/-4Dex AC0/-4Dex all at 50% DR
Full Plate AC7/-6Dex AC6/-5Dex AC3/-5Dex AC0/-5Dex all at 60% DR

So, out of Candlekeep:
a fighter in plate mail would be AC7 with 48% DR, regardless of DEX
someone in chain mail could be AC5 with 30% DR, if he has high DEX
someone in studded could be AC4 with 12% DR, and can use thieving abilities
someone in leather could be AC3, with no DR

In late BG1:
someone in high-quality full pate would be AC6 with 60% DR
someone in high-quality chain would be AC3 with 30% DR (if 18 DEX)
someone in high-quality studded would be AC2 with 12% DR (at 18 DEX)
someone in high-quality leather would be AC2 (at 18 DEX)

in SoA:
someone in enchanted full plate would be AC3 with 60% DR
someone in enchanted chain would be AC0 with 30% DR (if 18 DEX)
someone in enchanted studded would be AC-1 with 12% DR (at 18 DEX)
someone in enchanted leather would be AC-2 (at 18 DEX)

in ToB:
someone in legendary full plate would be AC0 with 60% DR
someone in legendary chain would be AC-3 with 30% DR (if 18 DEX)
someone in legendary studded would be AC-4 with 12% DR (at 18 DEX)
someone in legendary leather would be AC-5 (at 18 DEX)

-- Splint mail disappears pretty quickly, so there are really 3 categories: leather, with big DEX bonuses and 0-10% DR; chain, with small DEX bonuses and 30% DR; and plate, with no DEX bonuses and 50-60% DR.
-- The 30% DR with chain mail is probably worth more than the -2 AC difference for leather; but you can't do much thieving in chain, and some classes can't wear it at all.
-- If you have low DEX there won't be much difference, so you might as well plate up and get some DR.
-- Front-liners in plate can improve AC by using a shield, or do more damage with a 2-handed weapon; either way, they'll be more effective in hand-to-hand combat than someone in light armor.
-- People in light armor can really dodge pretty well: while the front-liner swings a 2-hand sword and absorbs damage, a thief with 19 DEX, single-weapon style, and some protection items can dance around nicking people with his dagger with an AC of -11 or so.

Faiths & Powers: Spell spheres and kit pack for priests and paladins
Might & Guile: Tweaks and kits for warriors and rogues
Scales of Balance: Game tweaks and rule overhauls
NPC_EE: More options for NPCs in BGEE, SoD, & BG2EE


#2 subtledoctor

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Posted 19 January 2013 - 10:46 PM

So, I'm going to try this out in my new BGT install, but thebiglist.txt is kind of opaque, with 22 columns and no headers. So I went into NI and changed every piece of armor by hand. OH MY GOD that was tedious. Took all day. I'm gonna have to figure out how to edit thebiglist.

In Notepad in WinXP the line breaks make it very difficult to see... can I edit it in Textwrangler in OS X and then transfer it to my WinXP drive? Or will the editing in a Mac-based program screw it up? Textwrangler is generally very good about respecting files' original formatting, but I wonder if there might be a problem outside of Textwrangler's control, like UNIX line breaks or something...

Faiths & Powers: Spell spheres and kit pack for priests and paladins
Might & Guile: Tweaks and kits for warriors and rogues
Scales of Balance: Game tweaks and rule overhauls
NPC_EE: More options for NPCs in BGEE, SoD, & BG2EE


#3 subtledoctor

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Posted 10 February 2013 - 11:22 AM

Regardless of the editor, the columns are unidentified. I've figured out which ones are for AC, weight, and the four resistances... but that leaves 16 unidentified columns. Is it explained anywhere?

Faiths & Powers: Spell spheres and kit pack for priests and paladins
Might & Guile: Tweaks and kits for warriors and rogues
Scales of Balance: Game tweaks and rule overhauls
NPC_EE: More options for NPCs in BGEE, SoD, & BG2EE


#4 khorghakh

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Posted 15 February 2013 - 09:15 AM

heres what i think some of the value are

weight, dex-, mov-, initiative-, ac, slash ac, crush ac?, pierce ac?, missile ac?, slash res, crush res, pierce res, missile res, ?, ?, move, hide, lock, traps, pockets, spell fail

#5 subtledoctor

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Posted 15 February 2013 - 01:33 PM

So, text editors aside, I thought I would give a progress report.

I managed to mod thebiglist to make 5 categories of armor: normal is AC 7, with -1 extra DEX penalty to represent shoddy craftsmanship (so, it's effectively AC 8, kind of); +1 becomes 'masterwork,' at AC 6; then there are generic 'enchanted' armors at AC 4; named enchanted armors at AC 2, and legendary armors at AC 0 (dragonscale, Aslyferund, Grandmaster's, etc. - the TOB stuff). So basically each level improves AC by 2, representing increasingly powerful enchantments that prevent you being hit. Leather has no DEX penalty (except the -1 penalty for cheap ordinary leather) and no damage resistance; studded leather is -1 DEX and 15% DR; chain mail is -2 DEX and 30% DR; splint mail is -3 DEX and 40% DR; plate is -4 DEX and 50% DR; and full plate is -5 DEX and 60% DR (and starts at masterwork quality, AC 6). DEX AC bonuses are increased by 1 over vanilla rules.

Halfway through BG 1 (level 5, in the Cloakwood ATM), this is turning out to be a blast. Khalid is tanking with Ankheg armor (AC 4, -4 DEX, 50% DR), at AC 3 with a ring of protection. He is getting hit a lot, but can generally make it through a fight since hits are doing a bit less damage. Poison arrows are a problem... but all the more reason for him to rush into melee against those hobgoblin elite archers.

Meanwhile, my 18 DEX swashbuckler in the Protector of the Second leather +2 (AC 4) is at AC -3. (That would be -4 with a ring of protection, and -5 if I had dropped a pip into Single Weapon Style - with a swashbuckler it's the extreme opposite end of the spectrum.) He can contribute to melee when needed and generally won't get hit... but when he is hit, he's hit hard. No helmet, so criticals are a real danger.

Meanwhile Viconia is rocking masterwork chain mail with a small shield +1 and a ring of protection... with AC 6 and effective DEX of 17 she ends up at AC 0 with 30% DR. Solid.

Basically this is all working very, very well. It does't seem overpowered or underpowered... well, maybe a little underpowered relative to vanilla, since the DR isn't very noticeable, and with rounding it really ends up being less than the stated percentage. But it's very playable, and I can't really see playing without FPPS anymore. (Playing vanilla EE on my iPad, with leather at AC 8 and splint at AC 4, is jarring.) I think this mod can be a tough sell for people who are used to the vanilla AC system... but since I got used to it (which was fast) it has become absolutely essential. Great job.

Faiths & Powers: Spell spheres and kit pack for priests and paladins
Might & Guile: Tweaks and kits for warriors and rogues
Scales of Balance: Game tweaks and rule overhauls
NPC_EE: More options for NPCs in BGEE, SoD, & BG2EE


#6 Mike1072

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Posted 15 February 2013 - 04:29 PM

heres what i think some of the value are

weight, dex-, mov-, initiative-, ac, slash ac, crush ac?, pierce ac?, missile ac?, slash res, crush res, pierce res, missile res, ?, ?, move, hide, lock, traps, pockets, spell fail

They are referenced in the .tp2 around line 1653.

0 name
1 _weight
_fatmod = _weight / 15
2 _dexmod
3 _movemod
4 _wpnspeedmod
5 _baseac
6 _slashac
7 _crushac
8 _pierceac
9 _missileac /* really only here for the missile attractor */
10 _slashres
11 _crushres
12 _pierceres
13 _missileres
14 _fireres
15 _coldres
16 _hidemod
17 _movesilmod
18 _openlockmod
19 _disarmtrapmod
20 _pickpocketmod
21 _spellfailmod
22 game


Also, I moved the text editor discussion to here.

Edited by Mike1072, 15 February 2013 - 04:41 PM.


#7 khorghakh

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Posted 15 February 2013 - 11:13 PM

hey i was close! and guessed the fatigue must have been weight based since i couldnt see it, was going to check the setup but got sidetracked by pretty flowers, as for the text thread (had a look) i think going by what is said there and here, Jarno is getting notepad and notepad++ mixed up, hence the confusion, anyways, glad its working out for you subtledoc!
good day all



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