[Ideas] Quest solving SoD story conseqences for SoA

[Ulb]

So I've just finished a quick SoD play-through and I can't help but wonder how EET will (if it will) handle returning to Baldur's Gate after SoD?

*edit* forgot SoD spoilers, hope I didn't ruin it for anyone:

 

 

SoD makes Charname basically the most (in)famous person on the Sword Coast and you're wanted for the murder of a Grand Duke's daughter. It seems rather unrealistic that you could just go back there after such a short time and everyone acts as if SoD never happened.

 

 

[Roxanne]

So I've just finished a quick SoD play-through and I can't help but wonder how EET will (if it will) handle returning to Baldur's Gate after SoD?

*edit* forgot SoD spoilers, hope I didn't ruin it for anyone:

 

 

SoD makes Charname basically the most (in)famous person on the Sword Coast and you're wanted for the murder of a Grand Duke's daughter. It seems rather unrealistic that you could just go back there after such a short time and everyone acts as if SoD never happened.

 

 

You have a point. Some proposals:

 

When you are taken to Amn you end up with Irenicus and even after leaving the Dungeon you only can access the Promenade and the Slums before you first have access to the worldmap (and thus a chance to revisit BG)

So there is pretty much opportunity to find some evidence that Irenicus did the deed and you can prove that to the Dukes. Some ideas:

a) find the dagger in Irenicus rooms - the diviners in BG can find out it was the murder weapon

b) Rielev gives you the evidence when you are so kind to end his torture in the bottle

c) Gaelan provides you with some evidence when he makes his offer to get you to Imoen, he gives it to you as a *teaser* from the shadow thieves to get you on their side.

d) you find a witness on the promenade who is willing to testify

e) the Djinn in Irenicus dungeon exchanges the proof for retrieving his bottle

f) some mini-quest combining some of the above ideas

 

 

[K4thos]

So I've just finished a quick SoD play-through and I can't help but wonder how EET will (if it will) handle returning to Baldur's Gate after SoD?

*edit* forgot SoD spoilers, hope I didn't ruin it for anyone:

 

 

SoD makes Charname basically the most (in)famous person on the Sword Coast and you're wanted for the murder of a Grand Duke's daughter. It seems rather unrealistic that you could just go back there after such a short time and everyone acts as if SoD never happened.

 

 

After finishing SoD the bridge to Baldur's Gate is closed raised like in first chapters of the game and the district areas of the city are unreachable. It's a recent change made due to SoD plot that you've mentioned. Roxanne's ideas sounds reasonable although it's probably better to keep it outside of the main package which aims to be faithful to what is available in base games. If someone would like to contribute such quest to EET Tweaks or make a standalone quest mod that would be awesome.

[Roxanne]

 

So I've just finished a quick SoD play-through and I can't help but wonder how EET will (if it will) handle returning to Baldur's Gate after SoD?

*edit* forgot SoD spoilers, hope I didn't ruin it for anyone:

 

 

SoD makes Charname basically the most (in)famous person on the Sword Coast and you're wanted for the murder of a Grand Duke's daughter. It seems rather unrealistic that you could just go back there after such a short time and everyone acts as if SoD never happened.

 

 

After finishing SoD the bridge to Baldur's Gate is closed like in first chapters of the game and the district areas of the city are unreachable. It's a recent change made due to SoD plot that you've mentioned. Roxanne's ideas sounds reasonable although it's probably better to keep it outside of the main package which aims to be faithful to what is available in base games. If someone would like to contribute such quest to EET Tweaks or make a standalone quest mod that would be awesome.

 

I agree with you to close the city for the exiled party. And EET itself does not require BG City to be open. So, if a mod needs to provide access, this mod needs to provide the solution. (no need to open it if there is nothing new in the game to do there, right?)

One example

The Sandrah mod for EET would require to open the city at a later stage, i.e. halfways through ToB and it can take care of it on its own (which means of course that only if you play that mod, you get the benefit). Any other mod could do the same, if the author sees a need for it.

Someone may even come up with a dedicated mod where you prove your innocence and regain your status with the city back.

 

 

Can you perhaps share the code/globals etc by which the city becomes closed and can be re-opened?

[Ulb]

After finishing SoD the bridge to Baldur's Gate is closed like in first chapters of the game and the district areas of the city are unreachable.

 

I see, that's probably the best solution. Though maybe it would be better to just make the bridge area unreachable as well.

It makes sense, you know you'd get arrested on the spot if you go there.

If the former Hero of Baldur's Gate that led the coalition to victory over the Cursade and murdered the Grand Duke's daughter showed up at the bridge, I doubt all he get would be a "sorry, bridge is closed right now".

 

 

I think it would ineed make a great stand-alone mod.

[Roxanne]

 

After finishing SoD the bridge to Baldur's Gate is closed like in first chapters of the game and the district areas of the city are unreachable.

 

I see, that's probably the best solution. Though maybe it would be better to just make the bridge area unreachable as well.

It makes sense, you know you'd get arrested on the spot if you go there.

If the former Hero of Baldur's Gate that led the coalition to victory over the Cursade and murdered the Grand Duke's daughter showed up at the bridge, I doubt all he get would be a "sorry, bridge is closed right now".

 

 

 

 

I think it would ineed make a great stand-alone mod.

 

It can be a stand-alone mod with a good and an evil path (you prove your innocence to the council in Amn and your good deeds during BG2 are taken into account or you "buy" a scapegoat and some evidence from the shadow thieves to present him/her as the culprit - third possibility is that all is solved with Irenicus' defeat). But then, a mod providing such a plot also needs to present some motivation/reward - why would you need to go back into that town??

 

PS I think the bridge may remain accessible, such that you can learn about the situation. Your party of seasoned adventurers may be able to easily escape two/three flaming fist guards on the bridge, once they find they are *wanted*.

[Ulb]

It can be a stand-alone mod with a good and an evil path (you prove your innocence to the council in Amn and your good deeds during BG2 are taken into account or you "buy" a scapegoat and some evidence from the shadow thieves to present him/her as the culprit - third possibility is that all is solved with Irenicus' defeat). But then, a mod providing such a plot also needs to present some motivation/reward - why would you need to go back into that town??

 

PS I think the bridge may remain accessible, such that you can learn about the situation. Your party of seasoned adventurers may be able to easily escape two/three flaming fist guards on the bridge, once they find they are *wanted*.

 

 

 

That's an interesting idea, though to me the quest would mainly serve to remove any logical issues that whole plot might cause in BG2. As such it would have to be a quest that can be done rather early in the game.

 

 

 

I think for most characters you can make the story work as it is. Sure you are wanted for murder in Baldur's Gate but at the same time there are all those heroic deeds you have supposedly done. It makes sense (kind of) that all kinds of rumors about your heroism and your misdeeds would lead to some kind of ambiguity in your reputation.

Still, imagine you play as a paladin. The Order O.T.M.R.H. would surely have more accurate information about the allegations you're facing in BG. They probably even have connections to nobles from BG and even if they might not outright arrest you and get you to BG, there is absolutely no way in hell they would accept you into their order as long as you're not exonerated.

 

As for the bridge staying open, you are right it is probably better to leave it that way.

 

In my opinion a short quest like this would probably be the best solution.

 

• You can find the dagger somewhere in the starting dungeon.

  I think the room with Balduran's Helm is probably the best place.

  Imoen or someone else has a short comment about it (“Is that the dagger..blabla..”)

 

• When you travel to Wyrm's Crossing with the dagger a guard arrests you and gets you to Entar.

  (Should you go there without the dagger some other really short sighted/old guard is on duty and tells you the bridge is closed.)

• At Entar's you hand over the dagger and some priest revives Skie.

 

• Skie only remembers you being there as well as someone else but any details beyond that are lost to her.

• Since you brought the dagger back Entar drops all charges against you and sets you free. He makes some remarks though that he still has his doubts and you should not expect the city to welcome you as the hero they once thought you were.

 

Alternatively, instead of having to travel there yourself the mod could “force” the quest by having you arrested via an interception when you leave the Slums District for the first time. Some soldiers/mercs arrest you and get you to Entar right away. That way there is no way you could run into any plot holes before going to the BG bridge area.

 

 

[jastey]

Ulb, I love your mod idea to close the Skie murder accusation, and it does make sense to do it early in the game and that the order of the Radiant Heart would know of the accusations. I also like the idea about different rumors about the murder, especially if the PC is a Paladin (Eltan already says it when he comes to free the PC, the situation is not clear for the public, to). Only problem I see is what happens if the player will not take the dagger out of ID. Maybe the Shadow Thieves can be of service here, story wise, since they were in the dungeon, too, and maybe one pf them took it out.

Does anyone know whether BeamDog is planning on integrating anything of the sort, I.e. closing the gap?

EDIT,sorry: OT. Maybe make this an own thread?

[Roxanne]

 

I probably need to include some code

IF

GlobalGT("Chapter","Global",22)

THEN

Re-enable the links in your points 2 - 4.

 

This will be done when SandrahRtF starts, so it will not interfer with anything in the original trilogy.

 

you don't need to include anything like that at all (other than lowering the bridge if you want to make BG areas visitable after chapter 7). Links between BG1->SoD->SoA->ToB are being enabled as you progress through the game. The above code is used only to disable "reveal from linked area" flag when we don't want it to work. Otherwise you would be able to travel from Wyrm's Crossing to Athkatla City Gates during BG1 which is not intended. But once BG1 is finished such travel is possible (if you didn't skip whole part of the story via New Game campaign button).

 

Great - another issue solved.

 

Anyhow, I consider my own miniplot to reach Global("SanSoDSkie","Global",6) to open the bridge (described here: http://gibberlings3.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=27995&do=findComment&comment=243905) as a limited interim solution just serving a mod that requires this access in BG2. My miniplot starts relatively late in BG2, i.e. if some *real* mod makes a better and more global story earlier in the game, I would simply consider their globals and prevent my own stuff to trigger to avoid collisions/incosistencies.

[K4thos]

EDIT,sorry: OT. Maybe make this an own thread?

sure thing, the discussion has been split from from this topic. If I moved something that should have stayed there please repost the response. Ulb, feel free to change the topic name.

[Roxanne]

Another hint, a mod to be considered in this context http://www.shsforums.net/topic/55036-skie-bg2-npc/ by Lava Del'Vortel

[Ulb]

@jastey

You are right, with the plot I outlined anyone not taking the dagger would be left without means to re-enter BG for the rest of the game.

 

Using the Shadow Thieves as you and Roxanne mentioned might circumvent this. The Shadow Thieves already have a strong interest in Charname and they are a widespread organization (with a base in Baldur's Gate) so they would definitely know all about the whole Skie thing.

 

My problem with using them is that I just can't see them helping you resolve such a big issue for free while at the same time asking you for a ton of money to help you rescue Imoen. That leaves only the option to have them help you with the murder case later, after you've paid them. (As an added bonus so to speak). That however would force people to side with them instead of Bodhi (or another mod-added faction) and would also delay the quest considerably.

 

The question is; Is it really necessary to have every Charname resolve this issue? Having this as an optional feature for players/Charnames that want to resolve it might be enough. After all, if you install the mod and plan to get your character exonerated there would be hardly a chance you'd miss the dagger in the dungeon.

 

As for Beamdog.. obviously I have no clue what their plans are but from all the “seeds” they've planted in SoD it would sure look like their planning to release some more BG content (in whatever form). In any case I don't think it's a good idea to just wait and see if and what they'll release two years from now..

 

@Roxanne

That's a good hint. Lava is a very talented modder.. maybe we can get him to make the mod for us.

[Roxanne]

@jastey

You are right, with the plot I outlined anyone not taking the dagger would be left without means to re-enter BG for the rest of the game.

 

Using the Shadow Thieves as you and Roxanne mentioned might circumvent this. The Shadow Thieves already have a strong interest in Charname and they are a widespread organization (with a base in Baldur's Gate) so they would definitely know all about the whole Skie thing.

 

My problem with using them is that I just can't see them helping you resolve such a big issue for free while at the same time asking you for a ton of money to help you rescue Imoen. That leaves only the option to have them help you with the murder case later, after you've paid them. (As an added bonus so to speak). That however would force people to side with them instead of Bodhi (or another mod-added faction) and would also delay the quest considerably.

 

The question is; Is it really necessary to have every Charname resolve this issue? Having this as an optional feature for players/Charnames that want to resolve it might be enough. After all, if you install the mod and plan to get your character exonerated there would be hardly a chance you'd miss the dagger in the dungeon.

 

 

 

 

As for Beamdog.. obviously I have no clue what their plans are but from all the “seeds” they've planted in SoD it would sure look like their planning to release some more BG content (in whatever form). In any case I don't think it's a good idea to just wait and see if and what they'll release two years from now..

 

@Roxanne

That's a good hint. Lava is a very talented modder.. maybe we can get him to make the mod for us.

Quote The question is; Is it really necessary to have every Charname resolve this issue? Having this as an optional feature for players/Charnames that want to resolve it might be enough. After all, if you install the mod and plan to get your character exonerated there would be hardly a chance you'd miss the dagger in the dungeon.

 

The answer is no - unless there is any new contents in Baldur's Gate City (like in my mod - but if you do not play it, so what?) you really have no issue to ever go there again in the current game with all existing mods I am aware of.

With this, it is really a new mod idea while the variation that I have installed in the Sandrah mod is actually solution of a problem that I would otherwise have, therefore I wanted to find some halfways logical plot contents to do that, and I think this is valid (I could even provide the code for it and someone could make it more generic, i.e.any cleric in the game could solve it this way).

 

So I think, there needs to be some motivation for such a new quest like (just some examples):

a) the paladins in Amn are persuing you because of your *misdeeds* (just because they are paladins, interpol)

b) you are the author of the Skie mod

c) your mod needs access to Baldurs Gate at some point

d) you do not like unfinished business and come up with a new idea of why the PC is interested to restore his/her reputation in a far away city he/she may not need to visit again

 

In any case, it is not a problem and it is nothing that needs to be urgently solved to make EET happen. BGT has existed all the time without you having a chance to revisit the old areas...

[jastey]

Why do we need a new idea? For me, the mere existance of such a situation is enough to spoil the gameplay. A game cannot make the char an accused murderer and then just ignore it in the second part.

 

I also see the problem about all the mod NPCs that bring BG1 NPCs into BGII. All of them would have to address the issue, unless it is solved.*

And yes, the point about the Order of the Radiant Heart is a very valid one.

And my PC just wants to have a chance to clear her name. As for me, I already stated it spoils gameplay if this remains unsolved, and unaccounted for, in BGII.

 

*Maybe I get so agitated about this because I have to address it in the Ajantis mod, thus also for the Order of the Radiant Heart, and I have no idea yet how I will. Ajantis is shaken enough due to the PC's Bhaal heritage as it develops in BGII, now this comes on top of it. I was hoping SoD would close the hole between the games, now it opened a hell gate in terms of continuity. I am not pleased.

 

(Edited for correction of spelling errors)

[Ulb]

I'm in the same boat as jastey.

 

For me as a player it is just unfinished business that I want to see resolved. Your Charname being a wanted murderer changes my perception of the whole game. It makes me feel uneasy.

 

Moreover, most of my characters are good aligned and would definitely want to save Skie (who might even be a former group comrade) especially since they were so closely involved in her death. After all she does get killed because of Charname.

 

All that aside, even some of my evil characters would probably want to solve this issue. It is not only a big stain on their reputation but it also means they can no longer travel to Baldur's Gate and its surrounding areas without the risk of being arrested. The characters don't know the story won't ever take them back to Baldur's Gate, so that point is irrelevant for their motivation.

 

Also, the whole point of the EET is to provide an continuous open world experience. When I first heard that you would be able to re-visit old areas I was thrilled and now this plot makes that almost impossible.

 

 

In any case, it is not a problem and it is nothing that needs to be urgently solved to make EET happen. BGT has existed all the time without you having a chance to revisit the old areas..

 

I agree with you on that, EET works even without a solution to this issue.

 

Nonetheless this issue does take something away from the EET.

I'm sure K4htos did originally plan for Baldur's Gate to be open to to player.