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Feedback: IR v4 Beta


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#16 agb1

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Posted 02 December 2016 - 03:12 PM

PRINT shows up in the WeiDU debug log, but not in the WeiDU.log record of mods/components chosen.  The WeiDU .debug log already records READLN responses, so the PRINT is not necessary there.

 

My point was that you have to ask for the .debug file in addition to the WeiDU.log.  And it's more an issue when considering replicating a user's installation including multiple mods that use READLN, where you must request the .debug files from each of those mods to know what they chose.


BiG World Fixpack (community collection of mod fixes and compatibility patches, with user-friendly cross-platform script)

 

BiG World Setup (tool to automate best-practice installation of Infinity Engine mods on Windows, with conflict analysis)

Latest version:    https://bitbucket.or.../get/master.zip


#17 Mike1072

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Posted 03 December 2016 - 08:16 PM

You don't have to worry, I don't like READLN either.



#18 BlackTalons

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Posted 21 February 2017 - 03:28 PM

Not sure if it counts as feedback, more like a sugestion? I was browsing the item lists and noticed Lilarcor parcticaly untouched. I have an idea to balance it in the form of a -2 reputation drop, similar to Viconia's when she joins the party. Given its constant calls for blood, it sort of makes sense that people would suspect of anyone brandishing the weapon.

 

Because reputation changes are more limited in BGII, it could be a decent penalty for an early weapon for both evil and good parties. Between the increased shop prices and the cost of buying your reputation back, Lilarcor would force most to take some detours before picking it up. Evil in particular could get dangerously low by picking all Dorn, Viconia and Lilarcor in one sitting so they would need to pad their reputation a bit or risk fighting the guards early on.

 

The problem with this would be scripting the reputation drop to work whenever its picked up, or rise when its disposed off, I don't know if its posible. Otherwise you could give it a -2 charisma/inteligence or even a new -x reaction if it were posible, though not nearly as efective.


Edited by BlackTalons, 21 February 2017 - 03:32 PM.


#19 kreso

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Posted 22 February 2017 - 06:38 PM

The problem with this would be scripting the reputation drop to work whenever its picked up, or rise when its disposed off, I don't know if its posible. 

It's possible, but I don't feel as if Lirarcor is a bloodthirsty sword. Iirc, the reason why it's not changed is that it's one of the most iconic weapons in the game, so Demi assumed people would be against tweaking it. Imo, it's fine as it is; even in BG1 two-handed swords are usually more enchanted than single-handed counterparts.



#20 Luke

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Posted 06 July 2018 - 05:27 AM

So, potions are of alchemical nature instead of magical ----> Nevertheless, their effect(s) can be removed by magic (e.g., by a Breach spell). Why!? What's the idea behind this?


Edited by Luke, 06 July 2018 - 05:34 AM.


#21 Jarno Mikkola

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Posted 06 July 2018 - 08:08 AM

So, potions are of alchemical nature instead of magical

To me, this means nothing... except bad writing in your part.

See, a sodium hydroxide is a chemical, so it can produce chemical burns on things in high enought consentrations among other things. But it's also a physical substance... so make it cold enough and "it doesn't even react", because the energy to heat up things becomes larger than the energy released from the reaction.

The answer in this is, the magic is so entirely ingrained in the world. Yes, a consept called high magic world, that's anything close to do with things can be called magic, as fire is to our world.

 

Unlike is some magic worlds, the game doesn't portray a phisycal link between matters and magic, but it could very well be there. Aka things like, you need; Insents, and charcoal worth 10 gp's to cast "summon familiar" spell. Diamonds worth 300 gp to cast "Raise Dead" etc.


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#22 Luke

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Posted 06 July 2018 - 09:45 AM

 

So, potions are of alchemical nature instead of magical

To me, this means nothing... except bad writing in your part.

I was simply saying that now the effects granted by potions are flagged as Natural/Nonmagical (instead of Dispel/Not bypass resistance). So I was wondering why magic should be able to remove something that is not magic in nature..... Anyway, as you said, the game doesn't portray a phisycal link between matter (it's written without the final 's') and magic, but it could very well be there......



#23 Jarno Mikkola

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Posted 06 July 2018 - 10:10 AM

I was simply saying that now the effects granted by potions are flagged as Natural/Nonmagical (instead of Dispel/Not bypass resistance). So I was wondering why magic should be able to remove something that is not magic in nature..... Anyway, as you said, the game doesn't portray a phisycal link between matter (it's written without the final 's') and magic, but it could very well be there......

It's the same thing as the Fireball -spell is a Fire damage, and not Magic Fire damage, cause the later actually crashes the nonEE game cause of lack of death animations in most creatures.
And what ever the flag is... it's a Graphical User Interface thing, aka the editor you use; as it, interprets it as such... as the two should be much the same... but the other might not be flagged as arcane, aka it will definitely not alert the Cowled Wizards.

And you might next time actually want to say what you mean...

Edited by Jarno Mikkola, 06 July 2018 - 10:13 AM.

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#24 Bartimaeus

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Posted 09 July 2018 - 05:35 AM

Breach specifically says it "[the spell] breaches and dispels all of the specific and combat protections on the target". It is not simply "dispel", but also "breach" - as in, to make a hole or opening. Why would magic *not* be able to remove something nonmagical? All sorts of magical energies interact with nonmagical energies and physical matter all the time - Breach will break the protections it's designed to break regardless of whether they're magical or not.

#25 Luke

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Posted 10 July 2018 - 05:37 AM

Breach specifically says it "[the spell] breaches and dispels all of the specific and combat protections on the target". It is not simply "dispel", but also "breach" - as in, to make a hole or opening. Why would magic *not* be able to remove something nonmagical? All sorts of magical energies interact with nonmagical energies and physical matter all the time - Breach will break the protections it's designed to break regardless of whether they're magical or not.

Ok, you convinced me.......

 

Now, what about AROWKC.itm (Fire Arrows used by Elite Kobolds)? Why should they be different from those used by the player (i.e., AROW08.itm)?

You or Mike (or both) may want to make these two resources identical in terms of damage output, enchantment and so forth.....


Edited by Luke, 10 July 2018 - 05:40 AM.


#26 Bartimaeus

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Posted 10 July 2018 - 10:46 AM

I think I already made them identical, but I made them undroppable in IRR as per vanilla (whereas IR makes them droppable). I've said it a few times before, but some types of kobolds are supposed to have a stack of fire arrows they can fire at the player (arowkc), but the player isn't supposed to get these literal hundreds of enchanted fire arrows in BG1 for basically free by killing them before the kobolds can fire them, which is what happens in normal IR and made me realize that something had gone terribly wrong (that, and having two different types of fire arrows that appear to be the same but can't be stacked is silly and annoying, too). Instead, those kobolds simply drop two normal (i.e. droppable) fire arrows (arow08) for the player, same as vanilla. If people really, really wanted them to be droppable, I'd probably create a settings.ini option to patch all creatures' arowkc.itms into arow08.itms to prevent the stacking issue, but I don't think it's really necessary, since you're really not supposed to get that many enchanted arrows so easily.

I may have forgotten to properly create an arowkc.itm with the changed properties, though, now that I think of it. I'll take a look later.

(e): No, seems I didn't forget - they're as they should be, undroppable but otherwise normal Arrows of Fire.

Edited by Bartimaeus, 10 July 2018 - 10:53 AM.


#27 Jarno Mikkola

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Posted 10 July 2018 - 11:50 AM

But it would be so much easier to give the elite goblins an amount of flame arrows and then make them shoot them, and if they run out, well the player gets none, buh. Just like other similar creatures, say like sirens, black tallons etc. Hobgoblins don't drop poison arrows, but that's cause the maker of them sucked, not because they were not useful. PS, the flame arrows should do just 1 point of normal damage... without counting the dex bonus... not a 1d6 was it. Cause try to kill a dear with this:

1526380758255.png

The hobgoblin poison arrows could get a negative to hit modifier for example, etc fun things.


Edited by Jarno Mikkola, 10 July 2018 - 11:55 AM.

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#28 Bartimaeus

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Posted 10 July 2018 - 03:06 PM

Arrows of Fire are not simply "flaming arrows" (i.e. arrows that are on fire), though: they're magically enchanted, and in IR, they're rather strong. It's very unbalancing for the player to get easy huge stacks of them early in BG1, which is why the developers made arowkc undroppable. As for your examples of Black Talon Elites and Sirens, Black Talon Elites are a bit stronger than kobold commandos, only spawn with 6 Ice Arrows to begin with, and they're shot first so you'll probably only get 4-5 of them per enemy even if you kill them pretty quickly. Sirines, meanwhile, are a rarer (and way more difficult) creature that *still* don't drop as many enchanted arrows as kobolds do in vanilla IR even assuming they never got to shoot even one off...which is not particularly likely to happen, unlike kobolds where a Sleep spell lets you slaughter them for most of their enchanted arrows with relative impunity.

As for Hobgoblins...they're a similar case to the kobolds. They have a giant stack of Arrows of Biting, but they're undroppable - you could make them droppable, as IR does for the kobold Arrows of Fire, but on such relatively weak creatures (that also respawn), it just means the player will have nearly infinite powerful arrows. If you really wanted to get rid of unfair monster advantages like that, the preferred fix would probably be simply to change the arrows to the real versions, but reduce the amount the monster has (i.e. give those hobgoblins and kobolds only stacks of 5 or 6 like the Black Talons).

Edited by Bartimaeus, 10 July 2018 - 03:26 PM.


#29 Jarno Mikkola

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Posted 11 July 2018 - 04:20 AM

...but reduce the amount the monster has (i.e. give those hobgoblins and kobolds only stacks of 5 or 6 like the Black Talons).

Up until the amount I liked this... but as the player gets 2 flame arrows from goblin cmmandos, it was kinda good, but didn't reflect what happened in the battle... but a stack of 4 would be ... to my opinion the actual best size variant. 1 to shoot at the party, and 3 or 2 to loot if you kill them in the first melee round.


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