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Haer'Dalis and Anomen - conflict?


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#31 Guest_Shii_*

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Posted 07 February 2006 - 06:23 AM

I like reality in every game or book, it makes me better feel it at all. But everybody"s changing and who said sweet Dalis could not want to stay with one woman to the end of the life? (or for eternity :)) Maybe there just wasn"t any event in his life that would make him make decision like that earlier? Things there really could be done realistic and romantic. If he would leave my character like the others I"m worry I will not play this mod at all :love: Too many nasty and sad things happens in real life, I don"t need "em anymore. Especialy here.

#32 Guest_Shii_*

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Posted 07 February 2006 - 06:27 AM

And Kania. 15 children?! Gods, have mercy :DDD

Sorry for another post, sclerosis :)

#33 Domi

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Posted 07 February 2006 - 06:31 AM

Besides sleeping with their best friends' wives?  Actually, in every Arthurian-based thing I've ever read except for The Lady of Shalott, Lancelot has struck me as a thoroughly unpleasant person.


I probably should have went for Tristan. I was looking for someone knightly but with roguishness, since Galahads just don't seem to attract what players are there left.

What I would find interesting is for the PC to get a choice to break up with Haer'Dalis, say, in Throne of Bhaal, and go with someone a bit more down-to-earth.


The problems with the break ups is as following - pretty much every modern romance allows gentle let down in the commital stage. What is more difficult is to jump start another romance. They all pretty much build up from SoA and assume a certain relationship coming into ToB. Restoring them mid-ToB would be weird. I know first-hand that Valygar's ToB portion would feel like he is too presumptious if you reset the globals, w/o going through SoA portion, even with romancing Valygar in ToB is a lengthy enterprize.

True and I should have mentioned that, but the step-aside or duel comes at "crunch time". What I meant was that prior to that, he doesn't make any of the sniping type attacks that the other Bioware conflicts do, so he doesn't seem to be worried about a rival, at least until it looks like he might lose (or as Neriana said, he finds a really dramatic moment to make a challenge).


I took a look at that dialogue just yesterday (though I am looking forward to seeing it 'live') in my current test game (if I have time) and I agree that it was my impression also.

Edited by Domi, 07 February 2006 - 06:58 AM.

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#34 jastey

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Posted 07 February 2006 - 07:47 AM

I like your thoughts about Anomen conflict, Domi.

#35 Gia

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Posted 02 March 2006 - 06:39 AM

Haer'Dalis has grabbed my interest when I first played BG2. To my disappointment, the female PC had only one romance option.

Anomen may be annoying, but, there's much about his character that can be developed (if anyone would want to). I honestly think that he is not as boorish as BIOWARE had made him to be.

The lawful good version of Anomen was more to my liking. I do tend to lean towards chivalric characters (-even in real life :) ). When the Banter Pack and Flirt Pack came out, I ran another game to romance Anomen. And indeed, my suspicions were correct. The banters have given Anomen more redeemable qualities in a way.

Now, what is chivalry without chaos, eh? I think this is where Haer'Dalis comes in. Having played partially into the BG1 NPC Project, I imagined Haer'Dalis having comparable dialogues with Coran's. Don't get me wrong -- Coran and Haer'Dalis are miles apart in personality and character as a whole.

What I would find pleasing (perhaps not interesting to anybody else), would be to see Haer'Dalis approach the rivalry with wit and intellect---and his individual flair. Anomen on the other hand, should be able to react in a more disciplined manner, as he struggles with his temper. (Besides, picking on someone who sees things in plain black and white --especially one with a temper-- can get funny.) The young Priest of Helm should be given a fighting chance in the rivalry, and should be represented fairly as an aspiring knight. I think the rivalry should have much content of humor and romantic declarations (more than just plain bickering). It would be fascinating for me, as a player, to be challenged in choosing between chaos and righteousness.

Edited by Gia, 02 March 2006 - 06:44 AM.


#36 Domi

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Posted 02 March 2006 - 07:24 AM

I agree with you that it will be quite similar to the backbone of the Coran-Ajantis conflict (though of course Ajantis is not Anomen, and Haer is not Coran). For me the choice is always between playing safe vs playing the game where you can lose and you can win. This is one reason I don't like having 100% assurances in the romances like Coran's or Haer's. Imo it takes away the "risk" in the high risk-high reward equasion.
Faster. Faster. Faster would be better. -Mal Reynolds, Serenity
I understand that folks prefer code that works. -CamDawg, G3

#37 Kania Blade

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Posted 02 March 2006 - 09:54 AM

I'd myself prefer saaaaafety. :) Methinks it doesn't spoil any "reward", just you are calm and enjoy the romance without extra nerves. T'is 'cause I live in SoA more than somewhere "here" I suppose and it can break me easier than any problen in "real life".

#38 neriana

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Posted 02 March 2006 - 12:27 PM

What I would find pleasing (perhaps not interesting to anybody else), would be to see Haer'Dalis approach the rivalry with wit and intellect---and his individual flair.  Anomen on the other hand, should be able to react in a more disciplined manner, as he struggles with his temper.  (Besides, picking on someone who sees things in plain black and white --especially one with a temper-- can get funny.) The young Priest of Helm should be given a fighting chance in the rivalry, and should be represented fairly as an aspiring knight.  I think the rivalry should have much content of humor and romantic declarations (more than just  plain bickering).  It would be fascinating for me, as a player, to be challenged in choosing between chaos and righteousness.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I would like that too. With writing Anomen, one can say that Bioware only chose to include his most obnoxious moments, and left out redeeming ones, and so it's justifiable to show him in more appealing moments. That's virtually the only way to make him more than a punching bag for the other characters, really.

Life is about tough choices, and I very much enjoy tough choices in a game, where they don't matter except to add immersion, character development, and interest, highly important in an RPG. :)

#39 Celestyn

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Posted 02 April 2006 - 05:35 AM

Yeah, I think it's important to give Anomen a fighting chance.

Too many mods kinda.. eat Anomen alive (well, he is an easy target), and personally I think Haer Dalis would give Anomen a chance with the protagonist and allow her to make up her own mind (doesn't mean he wouldn't fight for her ;)).

#40 Lezz

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Posted 01 September 2006 - 10:48 AM

Oh my, I expected you propose they'll be a pair of best friends as well, sharing a lovely lassie PC.  :p
Wait... you mean Edwin was UNDERSTANDING at least something (or caring to try) about cleric-kid???  :D

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I have no idea. I haven't played the Edwin romance, as Edwin is misogynistic, evil, and despicable, if that mod is what you're talking about. If you're talking about the actual game, Anomen is the one who comes out on top over Edwin. Just about everyone does, since Edwin is also crazy and quickly losing his weak grasp on reality during the course of the game.

I would never propose that Anomen and Haer'Dalis be friends.


Slightly off-topic here, but...

I totally hear you about Edwin. I thought the same thing before I played the mod, but I thought I would give it a try for a laugh and it really impressed me. Seriously. Try it out. It is romantic, touching, and hysterical all at once :p You wouldnt think so, judging on Edwin's character, but it really works.

#41 Lezz

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Posted 01 September 2006 - 11:03 AM

Certainly it's easy to take Anomen's bad side and blow it out to encompass everything he does, but I think Domi's right in that that makes for a not so interesting romantic conflict.

Anomen does flare and fade in his worse moments, so it's entirely possible that he might do/say something bad to Haer'Dalis, then apologise later after he's cooled down, much as he does with CHARNAME, which may lead to more talk, perhaps on some neutral ground. Unfortunately, I don't think Bioware has left much in the way of a starter for this, as the two seemed fairly antagonistic in my memory. The trick will be finding a way the two can connect.

Perhaps as rivals for CHARNAME they may find that common ground. Haer'Dalis certainly does not object too strongly to CHARNAME courting Aerie and the two styles they use (Bardic vs. Courtly) share similar approaches.


Good point. Conversely, if Haer'Dalis shows his more petty side when competing with Anomen for the PC it makes him a more multi-dimensional character as well. I think a big mistake modders tend to make when they write male-romanceable characters is to assume that the PC is automatically going to choose the other NPC over Anomen, and Anomen is just pestering them with no real hope. Then they make Anomen an utterly unredeemable character compared to the painfully wonderful and reasonable mod NPC (*cough* kelsey *cough*) I may be in the minority when I say that I found the Anomen romance quite compelling when I first played it, pompous priggishness and all. Faults make a character real. If Anomen is portrayed so negatively that no PC in her right mind would pick him over charming Haer'Dalis, then where's the intrigue in the conflict? Why bother to have a conflict at all?
It's the idea that the PC is undecided, that it could go either way, that makes it compelling. And even though most players know going into the mod which one they're going to pick, I think a lot of players like to hold out the competition between the two characters as long as they can, just to read the interesting dialogue. So you still have to keep up the idea that the PC could go either way.

#42 Minarvia

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Posted 03 September 2006 - 05:35 PM

Hi, Lezz. I don't know if you noticed that this project has been abandoned without explanation by its author. The banner ad is still running over at PPG, which is very confusing. Unless things have changed that I am unaware of (and it wouldn't be the first time :p ) this project is, unfortunately, dead. I decided to warn you in case Grim Squeaker jumps on you about posting in an Inactive Project forum. I hope I'm wrong, tho, and this project will return.



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