Question about pre-buffing and available triggers

[vtazt]

I think I understand the rationale for SCS pre-buffing casters. For example let's say you just killed the mephits hanging out in Mekrath's place. Mekrath would naturally hear all the commotion and be aware that his home is being invaded, and naturally he would buff himself. So all the buffs that get triggered when Mekrath sees you are meant to be as if he buffed earlier, hence the "cast previously" messages for the pre-buffs.

 

What I don't understand is why you must be visible for the pre-buffs to happen. It doesn't make sense given their intended purpose. If you're invisible you can attack an enemy before the pre-buffs are triggered. I know it's possible scripting-wise for an enemy to take some action when you are nearby but invisible, for instance Ribald will cast true sight if you walk into his shop invisible.

 

Well I can guess the reason for this: backstabbing thieves should be given a chance. But isn't it possible for a hidden thief w/ cloak of non-detection be the only thing that doesn't trigger pre-buffing? Ribald also casts true sight when a hidden thief enters, so that trigger exists. Perhaps there is no way to tell whether the protagonist (or a party member) is invisible or thief-like hidden?

[Jarno Mikkola]

Well there's always the possibility that the invisible party member just goes for his hunt, sees mages and if their prebuffs trigger like any good clairvoyant/diviner defenses would, the character could just walk away and come back after the defenses have ran out and take a few stabs at him. "This is too easy."

[vtazt]

Well, running away and waiting for buffs to expire has always been an available tactic, whatever the situation. Having "prebuffs trigger like any good clairvoyant/diviner defenses would" is better than nothing, isn't it? I suppose there's no way to avoid the use of cheese, but at least some paths could be closed. With invisibility, alacrity, and sequencers, mage fights are just as trivial in SCS as in vanilla. The way to uncheese that tactic is very awkward: start off the battle with some kind of weak or ineffective attack to cancel the full-invisibility part of improved invisibility before attacking "for real".

[subtledoctor]

You'd have to ask in the SCS forum and hope that DavidW comes out of maybe-semi-retirement someday. Or that kreso sucks it up and just takes over the mod

[kreso]

Truth to be said, there isn't a BG player that hates invisibility more than me.

1) it makes stealth skill moot

2) you can cheese 99% of the game with it

3) the mechanic is beyond stupid (you're invisible, but can't be detected by other senses like hearing?)

 

So, rather than tweaking the AI, tweak the spells. And enemies ability to "detect" invisible creatures.

[vtazt]

@kreso, ooh I hadn't thought of that: just have invisibility only fool the most naive creatures. Stealth should fail against creatures with heightened senses or who are above a certain level, which is somewhat implemented already (e.g. you can't hide from a dragon). I'm glad I didn't post to the SCS section because this could be an independent mod (I think?).

[kreso]

I tinkered with this a bit some time ago. Example, you can tweak creatures above certain INT score ("perception", no?) to have invisibility detection. You can even fine-tune it with eff file usage, so they can reveal invisible creatures in a radius around them with a %-based chance. It can be done via scripting as well, and PCs can also be made to benefit from this.

[Fiann of the Silver Hand]

Invisibility is poorly handled by BG.