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Skeletons buggy


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#1 NocturneN

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Posted 26 February 2013 - 03:18 AM

I've recently started playing my mega-mod compilation including gMinion and noticed that Skeletons act wierd:

When I order them somewhere, they only walk a small distance, then stop. So if I order whole party + skellies the skellies get left behind, furthermore it's really tedious to get them to, well, walk anywhere!

In the gMinion readme there are several commands listed "E" to turn AI on, "D" to disable it, etc, but these appear to have no effect.

#2 Azazello

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Posted 26 February 2013 - 04:57 AM

(1) If you're using any other AI mod e.g. SCS, BP etc., then it may have overridden gMinion scripting. It depends on your mod install order. BiG World Project recommends working install orders.

(2) Even if not (1), you may need to use the expanded gMinion TP2 for Mega-Installations.

There should be a way implement those changes without having to re-install your mods, but that may be too complicated to discuss here.

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#3 NocturneN

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Posted 27 February 2013 - 07:57 AM

Yes, I am using SCS, so that would most likely be what's happened. I used the BWS-installer, however, so I figured it would work anyway - I saw no conflicts or red messages in regards to gMinion. I should probably also mentioned that the standard scripts (i.e. "agen" "arang" etc) have stopped working; the character(s) wont do anything as if they had the "None" script...those scripts also reset to "none" if I exit game then load a save...

A question: Is it the "ease of use party scripts" that cause this conflict? Or is it the general AI enhancements that SCS does? I got the feeling that summons were untouched by SCS, and I couldn't fathom that party scripts would interject with summon scripts... Then again I am no modder, so generally in the dark with the inner workings of the game.

Thank you for your reply, Azazello, I will have a look at your link!

Edited by NocturneN, 27 February 2013 - 08:00 AM.


#4 NocturneN

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Posted 01 March 2013 - 10:44 AM

Replacing the tp2 with yours had no effect.

Hmm, it sounds like fixing this will be fairly complicated. I'd really like to have working summons in my game, so...where can I ask in order to get help with this?

Edited by NocturneN, 02 March 2013 - 12:09 AM.


#5 Azazello

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Posted 02 March 2013 - 09:45 AM

Replacing the tp2 with yours had no effect.

If you just replaced the TP2 w/o Uninstalling/re-installing gMinion, it won't.

If you did Uninstall/re-install, you shouldn't have done that (in normal circumstances). Uninstalling/re-installing a mod can screw up, at minimum, the dialog in your game. Depends on where and how the method was done, of course, but it's not a simple affair.

Initially I thought you could manually implement the changes of gMinion into your game; or, do some jerking around with the weidu.log to allow a quirky Uninstalling/re-installing. Neither is really optimal, and if your technical-ese isn't very high, your options get even smaller.

I'd really like to have working summons in my game, so...where can I ask in order to get help with this?

Well, let's work from here, hopefully some others will jump in...

First, we need the copy/paste of your weidu.log. You can either put it in this thread, or if you already attached it on SHS or another forum, then just put the weblink to it here.

(2nd: I hope you haven't open this same thread on another forum--it's make people assisting you...difficult.)

Next, tell us if you're comfortable modifying game files, some basic knowledge of scripting, using NearInfinity, etc. etc.
If not, then we have to go with the quirky weidu.log method!

#6 NocturneN

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Posted 02 March 2013 - 11:04 AM

I just replaced it - no messing with uninstalling/reinstalling; figured that'd mess things up. :)

My technical-ese is minimal; I know the basics pretty much. I know how to open and edit files succesfully, have used NearInfinity to tweak some minor things, etc. That's it. I let BWS do most of the work, thus I naturally expected that something like this wouldn't happen - I've recieved no warnings or similar messages from BWS, nor has anyone ever told me not to use gMinion with SCS. I figured 'twould work considering the BWS recommended both SCS and gMinion, sigh. Must admit I'm quite angry that no documentation has mentioned this, nor anyone I've spoken to!

Anyway, I am grateful for your help, though ofcourse!

I have a thread over at SHS called "Minor oddities" which deals with random stuff I've encountered during the game, but there's been no discussion there regarding the summons. I have edited out that section and will refer to this thread if anyone asks, but I think it should be OK. You can find my WeiDU-log in the OP there.

I've done some basic programming, but that was years ago. I know roughly what a code looks like, but I have no knowledge of BG2's scripting language. May aswell give it a try and if I can't understand it at all, we may just aswell quit:

I must ask, would it be possible to completely uninstall my game and mods then reinstall everything again w/o gMinion? Or would that be the same as uninstalling the individual components?

Thanks, NN

#7 NocturneN

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Posted 05 March 2013 - 01:18 AM

Could you tell me roughly what needs to be done? That way, I can determine for myself if I'll be able or not.

I'd like to know what my options are; I really don't want to play without working summons, and I have already dedicated alot of time to my current save so I am NOT keen on having to start over. :/

#8 Azazello

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Posted 05 March 2013 - 10:40 AM

I just replaced it - no messing with uninstalling/reinstalling; figured that'd mess things up. :)

That should be ok, as it haven't really done anything to help or hurt your install.

Now thinking about this...wait... Didn't I read somewhere that BWP uses the expanded TP2? Can you compare the two TP2s, see if they are the same or different.

I let BWS do most of the work, thus I naturally expected that something like this wouldn't happen - I've recieved no warnings or similar messages from BWS, nor has anyone ever told me not to use gMinion with SCS. I figured 'twould work considering the BWS recommended both SCS and gMinion, sigh. Must admit I'm quite angry that no documentation has mentioned this, nor anyone I've spoken to!

well, I can understand your frustration but truthfully, this isn't a problem, error or bug--it's simply an install order issue.

If anything, it's an oversight: Based on your weidu.log, I suspect that SCS trumped the controls made by gMinion; so the mod installs properly, could even work, if installed later in the order.

For future reference, there should be a note, maybe in the BiG World Guide, that if players wanna use gMinion, it has to be installed after mods that affect summons.

..........

ok, here's what I would do (I've done it before with other mods), but in no way do I actually recommend doing this, and in no way do I say it will either fix what you want or not break other parts of the game. Sorry, no guarantee in the BG gaming world!

[1] copy the weidu.log in your game folder to somewhere - you'll need it later

[2] copy the entire gMinion folder to somewhere - you'll probably delete it later; still...

[3] edit the weidu.log in your game folder: delete ALL lines below the gMinion line -- i.e. the very last line remaining in the file will be
~GMINION/SETUP-GMINION.TP2~ #0 #0 // gMinion: v2 BGT-Expansion

{ok, this is the tricky part, you'll have to report what happens when you try it}

[4] in your game folder, go to gminion\build1.8\backup\0 {this is the folder path I have; yours might be different}
-- delete all the files in the [0] folder except the files that end in [.0] -- I have ARGS.0, READLN.0, UNINSTALL.0 -- these should not be deleted

[5] run (double-click) Setup-gMinion.exe. Chose the option to Uninstall it

-- since gMinion is the last mod in your edited weidu.log, no other mod should have been touched or uninstalled.
If you see messages about any other mod being uninstalled, it means you didn't edit the weidu.log correctly--and you've just screwed your whole installation - Congratulations! You'll then have to re-install EVERYTHING, and ideally play from the beginning again.

But if things go well...
-- you might see the uninstall process reporting errors that certain files were not found. Ignore these.
-- What's most important is, does the process complete? If yes, then move on to the next step. If NOT, then... delete ALL the files in folder [0], then uninstall again. That should work.

[In fact, I don't think Step [5] is needed at all, IF the mod does NOT touch the dialog.tlk file, which I think gMinion does not. Still, let's go thru it for consistency-sake.]

[6] The original weidu.log - the one you copied somewhere else - copy it back into your game folder, overwriting the one that is there.

[7] edit the weidu.log in your game folder: remove just the one line
~GMINION/SETUP-GMINION.TP2~ #0 #0 // gMinion: v2 BGT-Expansion
keeping all the other lines there.

[8] if it's not in there already, put the expanded TP2 into your game folder (overwrite the existing one if it's there)

[9] run (double-click) Setup-gMinion.exe. Chose the option to Install it.

[10] The weidu.log will now have the line for gMinion at the very bottom of the file.

[11] Done. Go play & see if the summons now react to gMinion scripting.

[--] The copy of the gMinion folder you made--keep it until we can confirm if this worked. If so, it can be deleted.

#9 NocturneN

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Posted 16 March 2013 - 06:39 AM

First of all, I must apologize for my long absence, it's been a couple of VERY hectic weeks for me IRL and I simply haven't had the time to sit down with Baldur's Gate, yet. I am not ungrateful for your help. :)

Judging from your post, it seems there's a chance I'll mess up my game bigtime - I'll need to think on this and sit down with the files in question to study the file structure thoroughly. Although I suspect the procedure will be the same, I should also note that I am not necessarily interested in getting the gMinion scripts working; I just want working summons back. So if there's an easier way (read: less risky) to accomplish that instead I'm all ears! :D

well, I can understand your frustration but truthfully, this isn't a problem, error or bug--it's simply an install order issue.

If anything, it's an oversight: Based on your weidu.log, I suspect that SCS trumped the controls made by gMinion; so the mod installs properly, could even work, if installed later in the order.

For future reference, there should be a note, maybe in the BiG World Guide, that if players wanna use gMinion, it has to be installed after mods that affect summons.


What bothers me is that I was using BWS (Big World Setup) to manage my install and the BWS is supposed to run working install orders! Well, apparently it didn't! I really don't want other players running into the same problem, so whom should I speak to about this?

Thanks, NN

#10 Azazello

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Posted 17 March 2013 - 04:31 AM

First of all, I must apologize for my long absence, it's been a couple of VERY hectic weeks for me IRL and I simply haven't had the time to sit down with Baldur's Gate, yet. I am not ungrateful for your help. :)

No problem. Better people have a Real Life than a virtual one.

I've been trying to find time to play again, just a ToB game--for the past 3 weeks. And it might take another 3 before I can start.

What bothers me is that I was using BWS (Big World Setup) to manage my install and the BWS is supposed to run working install orders!

lol, it does work, just not as designed!

Seriously, your grousing is well-justified, so go for it! But only here.

You are right that this should be reported and the install order updated. I'll report it to the BWP team in one of their thread, and will post which one back here, for future reference.

Judging from your post, it seems there's a chance I'll mess up my game bigtime - I'll need to think on this and sit down with the files in question to study the file structure thoroughly. Although I suspect the procedure will be the same, I should also note that I am not necessarily interested in getting the gMinion scripts working; I just want working summons back. So if there's an easier way (read: less risky) to accomplish that instead I'm all ears! :D

There is a simpler way; thanks to you, I thought about how to do it...

The expanded gMinion TP2 was designed to be used after SCS is installed. So a workaround is to install gMinion--again--after SCS... Here's how:

-- get an original download of gMinion - either you already have it, or download it again.

-- EXTRACT (i.e. do not install) the mod to somewhere outside of your game folder - for example, to your desktop; there wlll be 3 items: TP2, EXE, and gminion folder

-- use the expanded TP2 (either from the BWS/BWP/BwP Fixpack, or make the copy/paste yourself) to overwrite the original TP2

-- rename those 3 items to this:
setup-NN.tp2
setup-NN.exe
NN folder

-- open the TP2 in an editor; replace ALL these text:
gminion/ -to- NN/
gminion\ -to- NN\

-- move (or copy) those 3 items into your game folder

-- run (double-click) setup-NN.exe and install the mod


This method shouldn't cause (many/any) problems to your install, as you can easily uninstall it at anytime, it's at the end of your mod list.

If any errors do get reported during the installation, report here.

Edited by Azazello, 17 March 2013 - 04:39 AM.


#11 NocturneN

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Posted 19 March 2013 - 09:00 AM

Doesn't appear to be working, eventhough it apparently installed successfully. I'll link the edited tp2 in the aforementioned thread so you can examine it for yourself.

lol, it does work, just not as designed!

Seriously, your grousing is well-justified, so go for it! But only here.

You are right that this should be reported and the install order updated. I'll report it to the BWP team in one of their thread, and will post which one back here, for future reference.


I thank you. Seriously, I could play the game without summons if needed but having that portion of the game cut off from me is quite boring. I realize this is noone's fault, I still think it's a big enough of a problem to need correcting, however. Although I haven't gotten any yet, I imagine spell-casting minions will be completely dysfunctional, cancelling spells midcast. :3

EDIT

After thinking about this for awhile, I concluded that perhaps I had to start a new game in order to see any effects, and it appears to be working for a freshly created char. This is good, however as I mentioned before, I have invested far too much time into my current character to want to begin anew. Might you have any ideas of how I could implement these changes for my current char? Or is that simply not possible? :(

Edited by NocturneN, 20 March 2013 - 11:58 AM.


#12 NocturneN

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Posted 24 March 2013 - 01:02 AM

Another revelation in my ongoing investigation:

It WORKS!! Well, sort of... I gave Edwin a level boost and gave him access to "Spider Spawn" and it would appear the Spawn reacts to gMinion scripting and behaves normally!

However, Viconia's Skeletons are still buggy. An educated guess is that since I fixed the problem but recently, old summoning spells (i.e. ones aquired with the faulty AI) continues to be buggy, while new summoning spells behave correctly...

This is problematic, as I intend to keep Viconia throughout the entire series, and her "Animate Dead" spell will remain the same. I have already tried to delete the spell and then let the game reassign it upon level-up, to no avail. Do you have any advice on how I could...hmm..."reset" it? Perhaps I could simply delete it, save, and the reassign it via Shadowkeeper?

EDIT
Does not work. I am at a complete loss - could it be aTweaks' "P&P Undead"-component interfering?

Edited by NocturneN, 24 March 2013 - 04:56 AM.


#13 Azazello

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Posted 24 March 2013 - 06:48 AM

gMinion does not touch spells, so it can't be that.

Troubleshooting shouldn't be too difficult; gMinion makes two fairly simple changes:

--it pre-/appends a code block to several AI scripts (which, incidentally, most/all AI mods would touch) to ensure that for all CRE using those various AI scripts, if it's summoned by the player, it will use gMinion scripting.

So to troubleshoot, go to all the AI scripts listed in the gMinion TP2 (the BCS files), and ensure that the code block is attached. This can be done using Near Infinity or Shadowkeeper (I think).

You should in fact see the code block listed twice--once from your original BWP install, and then from setup-NN. This is fine, as the setup-NN update will take precedence AND should be at the very top/bottom of those scripts.

If any of those scripts has not been updated, that's a pointer to research 'why not'.


-- it changes the AIscript assignments to a whole list of (presumably all) CREs for Summons.

To troubleshoot, you need to confirm that the Summons you're finding which are not being controlled by gMinion, are indeed in the TP2 list.

For example, look at the summon spell Viconia is using; the spell should reference which CRE(s) are being called; then check the CRE(s) AIscript assignments in the "Override", "Class", "Race", etc. fields.

Based on gMinion's original design, at the very least the "Class" field must be changed.
(I added the change to update the other fields, copying the logic from SCS's coding - this may not be needed.)

It could be that some mod changed the CRE filename of the Summons referenced in certain spells; or the summon spell is referencing a CRE filename not in the TP2. (Same diff)


One final thing: I confirmed that BWP already uses the expanded TP2 in their update to the original gMinion TP2, and they call it "gMinion v1.8: v2 BGT-Expansion_v2". This means that you should be using the BWP TP2 in your testing (NOT copy/pasting the text from my expanded TP2 thread).

So, to ensure you're testing properly:
-- uninstall setup-NN
-- delete setup-NN.TP2
-- copy the gMinion TP2 that should already be in your game folder (this is the one created by BWP [they may have renamed it])
-- rename this copy to setup-NN.TP2
-- install setup-NN
-- start testing


I'm very interested to learn what you find, as I always use gMinion, so I want to ensure it works no matter what other mods are installed.

#14 NocturneN

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Posted 06 April 2013 - 12:19 PM

I've finally gotten some spare time to go over this tonight; I apologize for the long abscense and thank you for your support Aza!

I'm not sure if this is the correct file, but; Thanks to the gMinion readme I was able to identify the skeleton summons as GHASTSU.CRE. In the GHASTSU.CRE file I found two scrips attached; FL#SKLSU.BCS and FL#LOWM.BCS. I'm not sure if this is were I should be looking, but I'll link the contents since I cannot understand anything in there, really (supposed to be a "gMinion"-tag somewhere in there eh?). Could you tell me how to ifentify the summon-files?

From FL#SKLSU.BCS:

Spoiler


Looking at the Spider Spawn (Which is working), it only has a classript called "WTASIGHT.BCS" which looks like this:

Spoiler

Edited by NocturneN, 06 April 2013 - 12:22 PM.


#15 Azazello

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Posted 06 April 2013 - 01:11 PM

I've finally gotten some spare time to go over this tonight; I apologize for the long absence and thank you for your support Aza!

I'm not sure if this is the correct file, but; Thanks to the gMinion readme I was able to identify the skeleton summons as GHASTSU.CRE. In the GHASTSU.CRE file I found two scrips attached; FL#SKLSU.BCS and FL#LOWM.BCS. I'm not sure if this is were I should be looking, but I'll link the contents since I cannot understand anything in there, really (supposed to be a "gMinion"-tag somewhere in there eh?). Could you tell me how to identify the summon-files?

From FL#SKLSU.BCS: <snip>

Looking at the Spider Spawn (Which is working), it only has a class script called "WTASIGHT.BCS"


Excellent -- we're getting closer to knowing which mod is taking over your skeletons.

You'll be glad to know, it's not gMinion... :rolleyes: Luckily, a solution is within reach.

Open a CMD window with a path of your game directory (i.e. wherever BGMain.exe is located) and run this command:

setup-NN.exe --change-log FL#SKLSU.BCS

and this'll tell which mods have 'touched' this file; one of them is the suspect. Let us know the results of the command-run.



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