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BG2 Fixpack v11 Beta 2 Available


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#31 Jarno Mikkola

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Posted 19 July 2017 - 04:53 AM

There is one install order issue, you must install bg2fixpack after BGT, see earlier in this thread.

Why the F ?
It's just a WARNING... NOT a, OF CHE¤ESE WE BROKE THE WHOLE THING; BETTER REINSTALL WINDOWS, before the terminators come pick us all up.

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#32 Angel

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Posted 19 July 2017 - 08:02 AM

 

There is one install order issue, you must install bg2fixpack after BGT, see earlier in this thread.

Why the F ?
It's just a WARNING... NOT a, OF CHE¤ESE WE BROKE THE WHOLE THING; BETTER REINSTALL WINDOWS, before the terminators come pick us all up.

 

 

Yes, but the warning is because BGT failed to make a required change to a script, which probably will give issues.  From what I understand of it, it does something that has to do with Imoen being transferred to Spellhold correctly.  Just because it's a warning doesn't automatically mean its harmless and can be ignored.



#33 jastey

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Posted 19 July 2017 - 09:47 AM

not to mention the copyright issues...

If a mod is no longer maintained and contains a bug it is community effort* to release a bugfree version. This does not violate copyright issues but helps to keep the mod at a bugfree state. But that's just my 2c.

*Especially if the mod is hosted at a modding forum.

(I have no idea how BGT works, too.)

#34 Jarno Mikkola

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Posted 19 July 2017 - 10:09 AM

Well, the BGT-weidu is a second version of the original Baldur's Gate Trilogy mod, as if you are unaware, the -weidu addition to the mods name, should suggest ... so try not to get you panties twisted, there's nothing to copyright, except the fact that this is all in the gray zone, meaning that you can do what ever the <insert various curse words not suited on this site to publish> you wish with it.
You know, the weidu version was made to remove the original sorta copyright issue of including the copyrighted BG1 material that made the largest part of the 600MB data in the original mod, as it today amounts to 20-30 MBs of install files.
And Ascension64 has retired, meaning that he left the project to SHSforum to maintain.

Which is what I meant to say when I referred to CamDawg to get to maintain the mod there.

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#35 Angel

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Posted 19 July 2017 - 11:23 AM

Well, the BGT-weidu is a second version of the original Baldur's Gate Trilogy mod, as if you are unaware, the -weidu addition to the mods name, should suggest ... so try not to get you panties twisted, there's nothing to copyright, except the fact that this is all in the gray zone, meaning that you can do what ever the <insert various curse words not suited on this site to publish> you wish with it.


Yeah, well aware of it. I know I haven't contributed that much, but I have been around the community ever since BG1 was first released and I wanted an XP cap remover. :-)
 

You know, the weidu version was made to remove the original sorta copyright issue of including the copyrighted BG1 material that made the largest part of the 600MB data in the original mod, as it today amounts to 20-30 MBs of install files.


Oh, it's more of a moral issue than a legal one to me. Modding is a very gray area to start with (though Bioware/Beamdog seem very cool with it), I doubt any modder starting legal actions over it would come very far. If I was worried about legal I wouldn't have touched D0Tweak or UB with an eleven foot pole. :-)

It's just that I'd feel bad about meddling with a mod without some sort of go-ahead from an author or previous maintainer. (Kulyok gave me that over at PPG for D0Tweak and UB.) I really respect the awesome work that all of you have done over the years.
 

And Ascension64 has retired, meaning that he left the project to SHSforum to maintain.

Which is what I meant to say when I referred to CamDawg to get to maintain the mod there.


Trust me, if I felt confident enough to meddle with BGT, I'd have applied on SHS (I'm MadeInHeaven there) months ago. ^^ I actually have studied all the documentation and some of the modding code. If it was just a matter of copying the BG1 content over and changing the starting point I could write "bgt-ng" in an afternoon or so with modern WeiDU, but from what I have seen there is much, much more to it. :-)

 



#36 CamDawg

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Posted 19 July 2017 - 12:28 PM

Well, the BGT-weidu is a second version of the original Baldur's Gate Trilogy mod, as if you are unaware, the -weidu addition to the mods name, should suggest ... so try not to get you panties twisted, there's nothing to copyright, except the fact that this is all in the gray zone, meaning that you can do what ever the <insert various curse words not suited on this site to publish> you wish with it.
You know, the weidu version was made to remove the original sorta copyright issue of including the copyrighted BG1 material that made the largest part of the 600MB data in the original mod, as it today amounts to 20-30 MBs of install files.

Gather round kids, it's story time.

 

BGT started as a project of Bardez back on the original TeamBG boards. He went through the BG assets, manually updating and importing them to BG2, and then threw the whole package on his personal server for download. Imagine pulling down ~4-5 GB, off a guy's personal server, in the early 2000s, with only five connections allowed for downloading. Let's just say that this form of distribution was suboptimal, aside from the copyright issue.

 

So along comes some new modding upstart, who sees a lot of large-but-unmodified assets that could be pulled from a local BG install rather than in the (already-massive) download package. He writes a simple command line script that would pull these assets from BG to BG2 (mainly a lot of areas, sounds, etc. pulled via WeiDU at the command line), and then install the remainder from Bardez's changes. I still remember how proud I was when I got BGT where it could be burned onto a CD (650 MB), down from its original 4-5 GB. So while BGT was (originally) a massive copyright issue, it did evolve to the point where it did require a BG and BG2 installation long before the WeiDU version arrived.

 

At this point, Idobek and I had teamed up and we were cranking out Tweak packs and generally pushing Wes to make WeiDU do things it was never meant to do. I was increasingly convinced that a full-on converter was a much better approach to the problem than Bardez's massive file dumps. Lo and behold some of the folks at the newly formed PPG, seeing my work with BGT and Tweaks, recruited me for a secret project led by japheth to do just that, known as Baldur's-Gate-To-Two, or simply Tutu. I jumped ship and we more or less realized the converter idea with its eventual release. I would eventually try my and at another converter in IWD-in-BG2, but it was really DavidW's expertise that made that work.

 

For a long while, Tutu had a massive technical edge, made even wider when Macready made EasyTutu. BGT eventually became BGT-WeiDU and the gap disappeared, and then flipped the other way as Tutu development stopped and BGT-WeiDU kept getting better.


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#37 Angel

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Posted 19 July 2017 - 12:59 PM

Heh, interesting story, CamDawg.  BGT is my preferred install these days (although I do still occasionally enjoy playing the original BG) and I have played it from Candlekeep all the way to the Throne of Bhaal more often than I can remember.  So I guess I really owe you and the others that worked on it there.

 

So wish I had gained my skill and confidence at modding fifteen years ago... :-)



#38 Jarno Mikkola

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Posted 19 July 2017 - 02:10 PM

... and then flipped the other way as Tutu development stopped and BGT-WeiDU kept getting better.

Until that stopped and a few of the original game developers got a crazy ideas, programmed the whole game a new with a new engine, new license and so forth from the new Atari, and it still continues today in the EE games and so forth... and you jumped again, but stayed where you stood, while the ground was moving.

Ouh, and there's like a thousand things those projects borrowed from each others so there's not really a thing that one can say who took what from whom. Nor is there a point in trying to argue, it's all free internet por/erhm, what was I on about ? :devlook:


Edited by Jarno Mikkola, 19 July 2017 - 02:22 PM.

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#39 CamDawg

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Posted 20 July 2017 - 05:44 AM

Ha, when you put it that way I guess I've been involved in every released conversion project except, I think, Weimer's Icewind Gate II (BGT, Tutu, BGEE, IWD-in-BG2, IWDEE, and PsTEE).


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#40 Angel

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Posted 20 July 2017 - 06:29 AM

Heh, maybe I should just go ahead, grab BGT, start hacking and see what I get.  Nothing to lose but my pride and sanity. ;-)





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