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Viconia/Edwin/Korgan


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I am writing interjections now, and after pondering about this issue, I decided that the best thing is to make Kivan leave if Player1 will insist on saving Viconia after a debate with Kivan. Kivan will also not spawn if Viconia is already in the party. I do not know how strongly people feel about having both Viconia and Kivan in the group, but I sort of think that it is the most realistic course of actions and makes Kivan a bit less convenient, which imo is a good thing.

 

I also made it a bit more difficult, but not impossible to recruit Korgan, since Kivan knows zilch of him, they just do not like each-other from the start.

 

I'd happily make Edwin unacessible as well, but that's probably too much, providing the Kivan unfortunately does not talk with neither Solaufein, nor Kelsey. So - accessible/unaccessible/difficult to recruit Edwin?

 

Obviously, if nobody cares, I would just do as I please :)

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Edwin is a Red Wizard, so maybe Kivan wouldn't be keen to have him wander into elven lands to loot whatever he can get his paws on. Maybe make him promise to be good and have <CHARNAME> promise to watch him closely?

 

I can completely understand Kivan's position on Viccy and why he won't get within twenty feet of a drow. :)

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Kivan might well have known Edwin in BG1. IMO, he'd have left a group there that approved Edwin's proposal to kill Dynaheir on sight and nothing else that might have happened since would have improved K's opinion of Eddie much. Too, the place and role Edwin assumes in SoA is not at all encouraging to one of Kivan's temperament. Especially, the "chore" of murdering a Cowlie in cold blood on Edwin's say-so would force Kivan out of most groups, I'd think. At least there would be a long argument about it.

 

On a personal level - apart from the moral difficulties of recruiting Edwin in each game - I think Kivan might just barely tolerate Edwin on the grounds that Edwin's ego so far outruns his power that he's more laughable than a genuine threat to anything Kivan values. When, late in SoA, Edwin's levels begin to catch up to his pretensions, I'd say Kivan would force a choice between himself and Edwin at that point - at the start of ToB at the latest - just on grounds that the PC is nurturing a true and growing menace in the group.

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Yes, Edwin scheming to kill an innocent woman is the point break for Kivan (echo of Deheriana's death). So let us say - big troubles on joining - but the thing is, would Edwin tolerate that some idiot of an elf decides if the genius like him is accepted or not?

 

I would definetly make the Shilmista Chapter subject to having Viconia, Edwin and Korgan in the party.

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Edwin seems to tolerate a lot of ribbing/insult from certain people when he could just cut loose with the fireballs. Its possible that he either knows he might get killed and values his own skin too much, or is desperate to ride <CHARNAME>'s coat-tails to greatness. With a few levels under his belt, I can see him calling Kivan out (or more likely just summoning a demon to take him out).

 

But I also think the elves of Shilmista not wanting him there either. And there's more than one of them. :)

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I think part of the problem is all the mages and liches who sneer at you, take on the whole party and (to their own great surprise, no doubt) get squashed into pate. Those guys warp expectations of what Edwin - or any other nearly sane mage - would actually do. If Edwin were kicked out of a party because of Kivan's scruples, he would not immediately start a fight that he was bound to lose. He wouldn't even summon whatever help was quickly available and then start a fight on the spot. If he thought the insult merited it, he *mght* concoct a plan of revenge that put the odds very much more in his favor when it is finally sprung. Although he makes a good deal of noise with his bombastic boasting, everything he *does* shows a cool foresight and a tender regard for the integrity of his own skin. I really think that that last mo is what he would follow if he decided to act on a grudge with the party.

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So looking at the practical side of things: lot's of drama and snapping when joining plus, possibly, a hard talk with PC when Edwin hits level 15 about weening a menace. I think Edwin being in serious troubles with the Reds, he will be more likely to apply himself to finding a new benefactor, than avenging himself. How about planting him in Suldanessellar minding some task for Irenicus (protecting one of the incredients for unlocking the palace perhaps, I thought at least one of them was free for grabs) if he gets kicked out of the party via Kivan's bitching? :)

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All the way to Sul? That's a pretty long jump - plus a considerable amount of trust for Irenicus to place in a Red Wizard and Jon has never struck me as the trusting sort.

 

How about simply giving him a cameo in Bodhi's lair the second time through? Edwin had been with the Shadow thieves after all so he'd have heard the rumors about the "other" guild. He also mentions, if you don't take him into the party originally, something about another employer and "other fish to fry". That 'other employer' could be Bodhi as easily and logically as anyone else.

 

Of course, by the time the PC gets back to Athkatla in chapter 6, Edwin is bored and rebellious. He's been stuck on guard duty for ages, the "guild" is moribund except as a cover for creating more vampires (and he fears being turned into one) and his chances of being allowed to go to Suldanesselar for "the Big Show" (i.e., Irenicus' ascension from ToL) seem nil. So he'd bitch about Bodhi, sneer at the PC and Kivan, give a useful hint or two then use the party's intrusion as a chance to escape.

 

That just seems more "Edwin-like" to me and would spare players who do like him the trauma of killing him.

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Saemon Havarian never became a vampire. Neither did the agent she sent upstairs in the Five Flagons to recruit the two traitors in chapter 3. Probably she'd have felt the need for at least a couple of underlings who could go topside during daylight. And once Jon was set to try becoming a god at the ToL, her thoughts would have been focused on that. She'd probably have forgotten about poor, little Edwin altogether (and how galling for him would that be!).

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Well, she would not be able to use either Saemon or recruiter should they have been vampires. What is Edwin's job? Was not he envious of liches too? I think I like Sul's placement more than Bodhi's layer... Bodhi's layer have a surprise with the loved one, and Sul has nothing much...

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Wherever he is, he'll be wanting a lot of backup if he's going to be taking on the whole party. He's got a lot of bravado, but I do agree that he's not crazy enough to try to take on everyone by himself. :) Having had close access to the party for some time, perhaps he has availed himself of the opportunity to grab a few personal nic-naks to aid the calling down of a curse on the party. Maybe awaken the Slayer in <CHARNAME>, or conjure a shadow of it for the party to try to bring down.

 

Jon may trust Eddie's lust for power enough to give him what he believes is a relatively easy job.

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Well, she would not be able to use either Saemon or recruiter should they have been vampires. What is Edwin's job? Was not he envious of liches too? I think I like Sul's placement more than Bodhi's layer... Bodhi's layer have a surprise with the loved one, and Sul has nothing much...

 

Well then, maybe:

 

Edwin: Ah, CHARNAME! Welcome to my soon-no-longer-to-be-humble abode.

 

PC: Edwin!?! Hmph. I've had many a hard word for Irenicus but I never thought him a fool. Not until now; seeing you here in a position of trust.

 

Edwin: Phah! What does a glob of unresponsive protoplasm like you know of the convergence of great minds? Never mind. I've no interest whatsoever in your answer. Suffice to say that the dimly hopeful refusal to think matters through which you call 'trust' plays no part in my being here.

 

PC: Good. Then I can go about changing your "being here" to "having been here" without any more windy interruptions.

 

Edwin: Ah, for once you have it right. Your immanent and inevitable demise will terminate my tenure here most felicitiously.

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Well, while I was on C-Train home I thought maybe to make it a separate encounter, him leading a party of Cowled Wizards who want to get back at PC for ruining Spellhold :)

 

Then, while I was thinking of Spellhold, I started inventing Kivan specific way of getting to Spellhold, and just when I was about to save an elven noble-woman and embark on the board of the Elven whiteship, I got to the end of the line. Darn.

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