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SR V4 final


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#46 n-ghost

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Posted 20 November 2018 - 07:30 AM

It's just that if a party member gets petrified, and you have no means to revert the spell, you can probably kill said party member off as a sort of a last resort solution and ressurect them in a temple later (i.e., the statue is too heavy to carry around, but a chunk of it might be enough of a DNA sample to warrant a True Resurrection). Makes those temples useful at least somewhat too.

 

Otherwise, when spell expires by itself, add a stat penalty that can be cured at the temple or with Restoration/Heal. FtS then fits nicely into an 'annoying debuff' niche (similar to level drain) that can be mildly useful to finish enemies off too sometimes.


Edited by n-ghost, 20 November 2018 - 07:45 AM.


#47 n-ghost

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Posted 20 November 2018 - 07:45 AM

I mean, it's all about an emotional impact of being forced to kill your stoned friends all by yourself.



#48 Salk

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Posted 20 November 2018 - 07:55 AM

It's just that if a party member gets petrified, and you have no means to revert the spell, you can probably kill said party member off as a sort of a last resort solution and ressurect them in a temple later (i.e., the statue is too heavy to carry around, but a chunk of it might be enough of a DNA sample to warrant a True Resurrection). Makes those temples useful at least somewhat too.

 

Otherwise, when spell expires by itself, add a stat penalty that can be cured at the temple or with Restoration/Heal. FtS then fits nicely into an 'annoying debuff' niche (similar to level drain) that can be mildly useful to finish enemies off too sometimes.

 

I find myself in complete agreement here.

 

Everything said makes perfect sense and I hope this will be the final solution. Easy and on spot. ;)



#49 Bartimaeus

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Posted 20 November 2018 - 02:23 PM

Globe of Blades change: Doesn't this just make it the same as Blade Barrier? Blade Barrier does 1D8 every 3 seconds (aka 2D8 every round) and offers no save as well.



#50 kreso

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Posted 20 November 2018 - 02:42 PM

It's just that if a party member gets petrified, and you have no means to revert the spell, you can probably kill said party member off as a sort of a last resort solution and ressurect them in a temple later (i.e., the statue is too heavy to carry around, but a chunk of it might be enough of a DNA sample to warrant a True Resurrection). Makes those temples useful at least somewhat too.

 

Otherwise, when spell expires by itself, add a stat penalty that can be cured at the temple or with Restoration/Heal. FtS then fits nicely into an 'annoying debuff' niche (similar to level drain) that can be mildly useful to finish enemies off too sometimes.

 

I mean, it's all about an emotional impact of being forced to kill your stoned friends all by yourself.

That's all cute, unless it's your PC you have to kill. :D

 

 

Globe of Blades change: Doesn't this just make it the same as Blade Barrier? Blade Barrier does 1D8 every 3 seconds (aka 2D8 every round) and offers no save as well.

Typo. Globe does 2x damage Blade barrier does.


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#51 subtledoctor

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Posted 20 November 2018 - 03:02 PM

Globe of Blades/Blade Barrier are awful IMHO.
- They don't break invisibility?
- Even if visible, enemies cannot avoid the blades
- They cannot be Breached or Pierced to get rid of them?
- You can't even buff you Dodge Breath save to better your odds of avoiding damage?

If they allowed a save, or if they could be removed, or if they only affected 1 enemy per round, etc. etc... if there were some reasonable limits on them, I would find them interesting. But what is the concept here, that makes them think not these incredible "sit around on my butt while enemies commit suicide" spells?

Edited by subtledoctor, 20 November 2018 - 03:06 PM.

Faiths & Powers: Spell spheres and kit pack for priests and paladins
Might & Guile: Tweaks and kits for warriors and rogues
Scales of Balance: Game tweaks and rule overhauls
NPC_EE: More options for NPCs in BGEE, SoD, & BG2EE


#52 Bartimaeus

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Posted 20 November 2018 - 04:03 PM

AFAIK, invisibility cannot be cast with them on (it's certainly not supposed to be a legal combination anyways, at least according to their descriptions). Fire Shield is a similar type of spell and is also not removed by Breach (and Fire Shield actually has a protective element that would qualify for it unlike GoB/BB - 50% resistance to fire!). I would not necessarily be against providing a save for half damage.


Edited by Bartimaeus, 20 November 2018 - 04:04 PM.


#53 Bartimaeus

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Posted 20 November 2018 - 04:19 PM

Other skeptical comments now that I've had more time to think through some of these changes:

  1. You said Prismatic Mantle is getting nerfed, but it's already pretty terrible in standard SR due to the lack of its traditional weapon immunities (which SRR restores). Will that be restored in standard SR to make up for the Fire Shield-like effect being nerfed?
  2. Fear effects suck (generally requires you to micro-manage one party member to head them off while the rest of your party pincushions them with projectiles and magic), but berserk effects suck even more - basically makes using these spells nearby any neutral NPCs a no-go, and it makes ranged combat against berserk-ed enemies even easier IIRC (since they don't really try to run away, so all you have to do is keep a short distance and they have no real targeting abilities).
  3. Mind Blank is a level 8 spell, and actually based on P&P sources. I cannot understand why it would need to lose some of its protections when it's arguably already pretty weak for a level 8 protection spell, especially when they perfectly fit the function of the spell.

Edited by Bartimaeus, 20 November 2018 - 04:20 PM.


#54 Arthas

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Posted 21 November 2018 - 12:46 AM

Stuff done via code (EE only)

I can't post screenshots here. Bugger. But here. First screen shows how immunty to damage type or debuff should work. Second one shows what happens in SR.

This only happens if you install AoE deflection tweak. It "deletes" the spell name, so you get "Unaffected by effects from" message.

This is now changed, and the spell name gets correctly displayed. Not all is perfect however. Now casting a fireball in a group of hobgoblins will display;

x:Fireball;hobgoblin for each hobgoblin hit. It's not perfect, but imo much better.

 

Also on EE with Deflection, newly created subspells would still display damage animation even if the target was immune to damage type dealt. While EE 2.5 apperantly fixed this so spellcasting isn't interrupted, I've made it work as intended in SR.

 

Lastly, cloud-based spells like cloudkill and stationary AoE like Web will no longer deplete deflection charges or be blocked by them. 

did you switch to EE in the end?



#55 kreso

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Posted 21 November 2018 - 01:01 AM

Globe of Blades/Blade Barrier are awful IMHO.
- They don't break invisibility?
- Even if visible, enemies cannot avoid the blades
- They cannot be Breached or Pierced to get rid of them?
- You can't even buff you Dodge Breath save to better your odds of avoiding damage?

If they allowed a save, or if they could be removed, or if they only affected 1 enemy per round, etc. etc... if there were some reasonable limits on them, I would find them interesting. But what is the concept here, that makes them think not these incredible "sit around on my butt while enemies commit suicide" spells?

You cen only pick Globe as a HLA once. The damage is imo pathetic (avg. 8 per round, reduced by physical resistance), they require melee range, so if anything they should be buffed. I try to avoid the "save for half" as much as I can, I hate that since it always favours the player in the long run.

 

 

 

Other skeptical comments now that I've had more time to think through some of these changes:

  1. You said Prismatic Mantle is getting nerfed, but it's already pretty terrible in standard SR due to the lack of its traditional weapon immunities (which SRR restores). Will that be restored in standard SR to make up for the Fire Shield-like effect being nerfed?
  2. Fear effects suck (generally requires you to micro-manage one party member to head them off while the rest of your party pincushions them with projectiles and magic), but berserk effects suck even more - basically makes using these spells nearby any neutral NPCs a no-go, and it makes ranged combat against berserk-ed enemies even easier IIRC (since they don't really try to run away, so all you have to do is keep a short distance and they have no real targeting abilities).
  3. Mind Blank is a level 8 spell, and actually based on P&P sources. I cannot understand why it would need to lose some of its protections when it's arguably already pretty weak for a level 8 protection spell, especially when they perfectly fit the function of the spell.

 

1) yes

2) there's about 0,0001% chance of that to happen in game. Same thing would apply to Confusion, nobody complains about that? As I said several posts above, have some faith in my abilities and knowledge about this game.

3) Mind Blank is vastly superior to Chaotic commands now. It lasts for 8 hours (CC is nefed to 5 turns only), it protects vs all PW spells, it protects against a multitude of impairing spells (even covering holding magic, which CC lost  - but not on-hit effects). SI:Div mixed in isn't imo proper for this spell, since Divinations don't affect the mind.

 

 

 

Stuff done via code (EE only)

I can't post screenshots here. Bugger. But here. First screen shows how immunty to damage type or debuff should work. Second one shows what happens in SR.

This only happens if you install AoE deflection tweak. It "deletes" the spell name, so you get "Unaffected by effects from" message.

This is now changed, and the spell name gets correctly displayed. Not all is perfect however. Now casting a fireball in a group of hobgoblins will display;

x:Fireball;hobgoblin for each hobgoblin hit. It's not perfect, but imo much better.

 

Also on EE with Deflection, newly created subspells would still display damage animation even if the target was immune to damage type dealt. While EE 2.5 apperantly fixed this so spellcasting isn't interrupted, I've made it work as intended in SR.

 

Lastly, cloud-based spells like cloudkill and stationary AoE like Web will no longer deplete deflection charges or be blocked by them. 

did you switch to EE in the end?

 

yup. It just allows for so much more. It+s far from perfect (it's fairly prone to crashes) but some stuff EE allows for is really good.


You were supposed to defeat the EE, not join them


#56 Arthas

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Posted 21 November 2018 - 06:17 AM


 


yup. It just allows for so much more. It+s far from perfect (it's fairly prone to crashes) but some stuff EE allows for is really good.

did you switch to EE in the end?

 

 

 

You were supposed to defeat the EE, not join them


Edited by Arthas, 21 November 2018 - 06:17 AM.


#57 Grammarsalad

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Posted 21 November 2018 - 06:55 AM


 


yup. It just allows for so much more. It+s far from perfect (it's fairly prone to crashes) but some stuff EE allows for is really good.

did you switch to EE in the end?
 
 

 
You were supposed to defeat the EE, not join them

We are the borg. Existence as you know it is over. Resistance is futile

#58 kreso

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Posted 21 November 2018 - 01:17 PM

You were supposed to defeat the EE, not join them

You made my day.


You were supposed to defeat the EE, not join them


#59 DrAzTiK

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Posted 26 November 2018 - 10:58 AM

Are you going to release your V4 final soon Kreso ?


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