stoneskin

[kreso]

Is this spell broken? I wish there was a way of removing it from game completely (and adjusting AI, ofc). Why? It simply makes classes wich can use it do what they shouldn't be doing. Example - try tanking Firkraag with (what was often wrongfully labeled as the best tank in SoA) Korgan - let's say he has 139 Hp, AC of -13, immunity to fire.. He will die (depending on mods) in 1-3 rounds. Next try Edwin, a mage with AC 10 but 5 stoneskin + fireshiled:blue memorized. See what happens to Firk now. I won't even talk about Haer'dalis, who is even more broken than Edwin in this regard. I liked the gameplay of BG1 more just for this reason. Tanks were fighters in full plate with shields, not staff & robe allmighty mages.

[Ardanis]

Fighters have always been meant to deal with lesser threats, tanking and dispatching groups of weaker enemies.

Mages have a limited supply of powerful spells, and those are best used against a single powerful opponent.

[kvote]

Well, many things to say there:

 

- True, AI deals poorly with stoneskin, especially when fighting enemy casters who very often do not remove, breach or dispel as efficiently as they could.

 

- I do not completly agree with you about tanks. Mage being better than fighter at resisting enemy onslaught appears as quite fair to me, at least after some levels ( around 10+). So, yes, I agree BG1 efficient tanks are fighter, in BG2, against most enemies, mages should prevail.

 

- Haerd'halis (and bards/thieves) can be quite overpowered in BG2 when using magic (due to xp per level progress taht make them hihger level than mages)

 

To make my story short, agree with you to some extent, but for me a matter to be deazlt with correcting AI, not removing stoneskin.

[InKal]

Is this spell broken? I wish there was a way of removing it from game completely (and adjusting AI, ofc). Why? It simply makes classes wich can use it do what they shouldn't be doing. Example - try tanking Firkraag with (what was often wrongfully labeled as the best tank in SoA) Korgan - let's say he has 139 Hp, AC of -13, immunity to fire.. He will die (depending on mods) in 1-3 rounds. Next try Edwin, a mage with AC 10 but 5 stoneskin + fireshiled:blue memorized. See what happens to Firk now. I won't even talk about Haer'dalis, who is even more broken than Edwin in this regard. I liked the gameplay of BG1 more just for this reason. Tanks were fighters in full plate with shields, not staff & robe allmighty mages.

 

You know, spells are powerful, magic is powerful. Tank is a meatshield, he's job is to keep enemies at bay, away from mages doing their voodoo and then slaughter the enemy debuffed/disabled/weakened by mages...doh, like you wouldn't know ;]

 

In my opinion, in this palticular case the main problem is not stoneskin, more like fireshield:blue. Mage can use it with PFMW (put another one in sequencer just to be sure) or Mantle/Imp.Mantle and voila, Firk is dead, no stoneskin used, fireshield suicidal attack by stupid AI. And, if mage is buffed with stoneskin but not fireshield:blue, Firkraag will kill him, especially SCS2 Firkraag (dude, hits like a truck) will kill him pretty fast imo.

[kreso]

I play with SCS2....

[Blades of Vanatar]

BG1 & IWD are games with a more traditional D&D flare and approach. They start at Level 1. Both require Warrior Tanks to survive(to an extent..). SoA on the other hand starts at higher level game play. The designers added another game element by tacking on a lot of new spells to the spell list, many are protection and protection removal spells not seen in the other D&D games by Bioware. It allows for epic Mage Spell battles. Many modders have taken advantage of htis to create some very challenging mods. One side effect of this is it can change the dynamics of your "regular" encounters, but are needed for some of the tougher battles, like the Liches, Dragons, Beholders, etc...also for many of the ToB battles.

[DavidW]

I think thinking about it in terms of how well an individual does is misleading. This is a party-based game; you have a mage in the party to cast Breach at Firkraag, and then a fighter to hack him up.

[Echon]

The spell is more powerful in these games than it is in P&P. There you will lose one skin per attack, regardless of whether it hits or not. Misses removing skins makes no sense but that is how it is, and to offset the lack of this feature, it should probably generate fewer skins.

[DavidW]

In my opinion, in this palticular case the main problem is not stoneskin, more like fireshield:blue. Mage can use it with PFMW (put another one in sequencer just to be sure) or Mantle/Imp.Mantle and voila, Firk is dead, no stoneskin used, fireshield suicidal attack by stupid AI. And, if mage is buffed with stoneskin but not fireshield:blue, Firkraag will kill him, especially SCS2 Firkraag (dude, hits like a truck) will kill him pretty fast imo.

 

If SCS2 is working correctly, Firkraag shouldn't attack you if you've got PFMW/Mantle running.

[Lantis]

Haste and Stoneskin are broken in my opinion...I play without them...makes for a much more challenging experience (especially on impossible).

[silas]

I agree that Stoneskin is overpowered - or, at least, a little too perfect - because it is spammed by everyone, everywhere, all the time. My solution involves the judicious use of Near Infinity:

 

1. Find Blur. Change it to a level 1 spell. Hit File-->Export and save it to your desktop as SPWI120.spl.

2. Find Reflected image. Change it to a level 2 spell. Add effects such that more images appear, something like 1 per 2 levels, capped at five images. File-->Export and save it as SPWI201.spl.

3. Find Mirror Image. Change it to a level 4 spell. File-->Export and save it as SPWI408.spl.

4. Find Stoneskin. Change it to a priest spell, druid-only. File-->Export and save it as SPPR404.spl

5. Find Ironskins. Make it cleric-only.

6. Wanna get really crazy? Find Mantle. Make it level 6. File-->Export and save it as SPWI611.spl.

7. Take all those saved files from you desktop and dump them into your override folder.

 

Now, mages have 3 kinds of protection:

1) stepped armor spells that improve AC: Armor; Shield; Ghost Armor; Spirit Armor

2) stepped illusion spells to take hits for you: Reflected image (now useful with numerous images, but there is always a chance that an attacker chooses right and hits you); Mirror Image (stops all attacks until they are gone); Mislead (image can walk around on its own); Project Image (image can cast spells!); Simulacrum (image is real!)

3) stepped "you can't hit me at all for a little while" spells: PFNW; Mantle; Improved Mantle; Absolute Immunity. (And the super-cheese PFMW+PFNM combo is gone. PFMW was always stupid anyway... "I can only be harmed by weak weapons!" What?!)

 

Druids are buffed with a 4th-level Stoneskin spell (because druids need buffing and, uh, stone is natural) and clerics get a 6th-level Ironskin spell (because clerics wear armor, and armor is iron... I guess).

 

Try it. The alterations play pretty well.

[RAH]

I agree that Stoneskin is overpowered - or, at least, a little too perfect - because it is spammed by everyone, everywhere, all the time. My solution involves the judicious use of Near Infinity:

 

1. Find Blur. Change it to a level 1 spell. Hit File-->Export and save it to your desktop as SPWI120.spl.

2. Find Reflected image. Change it to a level 2 spell. Add effects such that more images appear, something like 1 per 2 levels, capped at five images. File-->Export and save it as SPWI201.spl.

3. Find Mirror Image. Change it to a level 4 spell. File-->Export and save it as SPWI408.spl.

4. Find Stoneskin. Change it to a priest spell, druid-only. File-->Export and save it as SPPR404.spl

5. Find Ironskins. Make it cleric-only.

6. Wanna get really crazy? Find Mantle. Make it level 6. File-->Export and save it as SPWI611.spl.

7. Take all those saved files from you desktop and dump them into your override folder.

 

Now, mages have 3 kinds of protection:

1) stepped armor spells that improve AC: Armor; Shield; Ghost Armor; Spirit Armor

2) stepped illusion spells to take hits for you: Reflected image (now useful with numerous images, but there is always a chance that an attacker chooses right and hits you); Mirror Image (stops all attacks until they are gone); Mislead (image can walk around on its own); Project Image (image can cast spells!); Simulacrum (image is real!)

3) stepped "you can't hit me at all for a little while" spells: PFNW; Mantle; Improved Mantle; Absolute Immunity. (And the super-cheese PFMW+PFNM combo is gone. PFMW was always stupid anyway... "I can only be harmed by weak weapons!" What?!)

 

Druids are buffed with a 4th-level Stoneskin spell (because druids need buffing and, uh, stone is natural) and clerics get a 6th-level Ironskin spell (because clerics wear armor, and armor is iron... I guess).

 

Try it. The alterations play pretty well.

 

Cool idea! Especially nice since it reduces the supremacy of fighter/mages without making them totally suck...

 

How would doing this affect the scs-II AI, though?

[silas]

No idea - I don't use it. It should be okay for scripts & whatnot, since you're just renaming the files. Mages who usually spam Stoneskin will now spam Mirror Image. I believe SCS gets kind of cute - it knows when you cast Stoneskin and reacts accordingly. If the reaction doesn't work against Miror Image, it'll be a problem. But the two spells function very similarly, so it might be okay.