EET vanilla/mod NPC continuity questions (spoilers)

[Ser Elryk]

Okay, so I'm wanting to do my first complete run through from Candlekeep to Throne of Bhaal via EET. I've only ever played through BG1EE once, and the beginning of BG2EE. I've never played SoD.

 

So it's my understanding that over the course of events of SoD that you and a party consisting of Imoen, Jaheira, Khalid, Minsc, & Dynaheir will end up in Irenicus' dungeon, thus beginning the BG2 portion. So my question is this: What happens to your own custom party after Sarevok is defeated, leading to them being replaced with the default party of BG2? Feel free to spoil it for me.

 

Specifically what I'm curious/concerned about is what if I have BG1 Mod NPCs in my party when defeating Sarevok (Finch, Isra, Mur'Neth, Valerie, Indira, White, etc.)? Are they just booted out with no dialogue? Do they stay in the party in SoD but are suddenly mute? What happens?

 

Also, what happens if Imoen, Jaheira, Khalid, Minsc, and/or Dynaheir are dead in my game at the end of BG1? How does the game handle this? If someone wouldn't mind sating my curiosity I'd very much appreciate it =)

[K4thos]

So it's my understanding that over the course of events of SoD that you and a party consisting of Imoen, Jaheira, Khalid, Minsc, & Dynaheir will end up in Irenicus' dungeon, thus beginning the BG2 portion. So my question is this: What happens to your own custom party after Sarevok is defeated, leading to them being replaced with the default party of BG2? Feel free to spoil it for me.

all your party members migrates to Korlasz's Tomb. There are also more party members in SoD. Imoen, Jaheira, Khalid, Minsc, & Dynaheir party composition at the end of SoD is explained it the story that happens in the last minutes of SoD. No point in spoiling it.

 

Specifically what I'm curious/concerned about is what if I have BG1 Mod NPCs in my party when defeating Sarevok (Finch, Isra, Mur'Neth, Valerie, Indira, White, etc.)? Are they just booted out with no dialogue? Do they stay in the party in SoD but are suddenly mute? What happens?

whatever mod author designed for SoD will happen. If modder didn't update the mod with SoD content than just like in vanilla SoD NPC will continue to use their BG1 scripts and dialogues and stay with party.

 

Also, what happens if Imoen, Jaheira, Khalid, Minsc, and/or Dynaheir are dead in my game at the end of BG1? How does the game handle this? If someone wouldn't mind sating my curiosity I'd very much appreciate it =)

Imoen and Edwin stays alive for obvious reasons (resurrected/spawned with new CRE outside your sight if needed when BG2 is started although Edwin will be missing in SoD if killed in BG1). Other NPCs (joinable in BG2) deaths are fully respected. Examples:

- Dynheir killed during BG1 Gnoll's Stronghold quest or invited to the party but chunked or death during battle and kicked out of the party (body left to rot in some area) results in missing Minsc and Dynaheir during SoD and BG2 (even in final SoD cutscene and Irenicus Dungeon)

- Dynaheir killed during Sarevok's battle or even death before it but still occupying slot in your party (which means you drag her body with you from area to area) - she will be resurrected at the beginning of SoD

 

Also if you haven't met Dynaheir during your BG1 travels than she will be alive and recruitable in SoD (the game assumes that you met her in the weeks that have passed between Sarevok's death and start of SoD). She is also valid for full content if you kicked her from party (since she is still alive). Notice that when you come back to BG1 areas after starting SoD you won't find old NPCs in their starting areas (even mod added ones if they use pre-made EET transition function), so there is no way for story inconstancies here.

 

Same rules applies to all the other vanilla NPCs so for example letting that Flaming Fist guy in BG1 kill Viconia will result in no content for her in SoD and missing cutscene with rescuing her from burning in BG2. Don't want to be bothered with Dorn, Neera, Rasaad? Kill them on sight in BG1 and you won't ever be remained of their existance for the rest of the game (they won't even be mentioned by Fate Spirit in ToB).

 

edit: regarding ToB, quote from readme:

Like in vanilla game at the end of BG2 your party migrates to ToB. What has been changed is Fate Spirit old party member summoning mechanics. It no longer spawns new versions of creatures but moves characters from BG2 areas to Pocket Plane. Fate Spirit summoning NPC list is created dynamically depending on who you met during your BG1 and BG2 travels. For continuity sake NPCs that you don't know won't even show up on the list. During Fate Spirit dialogue you can receive one of 3 responses to your request:

• I cannot do as you ask, child of Bhaal. The one you seek is dead and thus forever beyond my reach. This thread no longer connects with yours. - originally used only for Yoshimo, now valid for every NPC that has been killed and left in that state.
• I cannot do as you ask, child of Bhaal. The thread of the one you speak is beyond my sight, as it no longer touches yours. - this unused line in vanilla game has been restored to cover BG1 NPCs that don't have content created in BG2. If you had a character in party at any time during BG1 (true for all NPCs, not only those with BG2 content) but that NPC didn't join you at least once during BG2 than he/she will show up on the summoning list, but you won't be able to summon such character.
• As you wish. - NPC will be summoned. Spawned NPC is the exact same creature that you left in BG2 (items and other adjustments are preserved, dialogue and script updates are made, if applicable, XP is increased to default starting ToB XP if NPC has less experience).

[Ser Elryk]

Thank you very much for the info K4thos =)

[Roxanne]

Thank you very much for the info K4thos =)

Everything that K4thos has described for the vanilla NPCs

plus

whatever mod author designed for SoD will happen. If modder didn't update the mod with SoD content than just like in vanilla SoD NPC will continue to use their BG1 scripts and dialogues and stay with party.

Mods are just beginning to recognise SoD as a new *playground* for the game. Only some of them already have dedicated SoD content (e.g. Sirene, Sandrah...) some others at this moment still appear a bit *forgotten*, i.e. they keep all their BG1 characteristics like described above and sometimes just seem to be a bit out of touch with Sarevok's defeat and the new situation.

Ideally those should not appear in SoD (there is code available for them to leave - but some still do not use it). This is not so much an EET issue but something to be corrected sooner or later by the respective modmaker.

(There is an easy parameter Global("EndofBG1","Global",1) which can be used in EET to detect that you are in SoD - the global is 0 in BG1 and 2 in SoA.)

[bob_veng]

phase 1

- you play the introductory dungeon with your BG1 party, and at the end of this phase the party inevitably falls apart and unsupported (undeveloped for SoD) NPCs leave the party permanently, without a chance of ever getting them back

 

phase 2

- you can play with a party assembled from the SoD roster, which includes about 1/2 of BG1 npcs and four new ones (during this phase you can get back those characters who were at any given time in your BG1 party and are supported in SoD, and they'll just pick up where they left with regard to stats*, and other BG1 NPCs that are supported [they're brought up to your level] but's it's generally a gradual process because they're scattered throughout the course of the campaign, which is linear)

* this can be a nuisance if you traveled with them for just a short time at a relatively low level

 

phase 3

- the current SoD party inevitably falls apart (in about the same way the BG1 party you started the game with did) and the canon BG2 party joins you. then the game abruptly ends

 

 

 

 

yeah...

it's a little heavy handed

if you think great writing can cover it...well it doesn't

 

hope you enjoy SoD anyway, it's not bad overall

[Ardanis]

phase 1

- you play the introductory dungeon with your BG1 party, and at the end of this phase the party inevitably falls apart and unsupported (undeveloped for SoD) NPCs leave the party permanently, without a chance of ever getting them back

 

To be precise, SoD has three categories of NPCs - official SoD joinables that join/re-join at specified points (Corwin, Minsc etc.), unsupported BG1 cast that promptly leaves the party (Tiax, Yeslick etc.), and unaccounted ones that silently follow the player around (mod NPCs, custom/multiplayer party, and due to a bug - Shar-Teel in early versions).

[Blash2]

Is there a pure wizard that I could carry all the way from BG1 to ToB? Excluding Neera, Dynaheir, Xzar, Xan and Edwin, so I mean someone introduced by some mod. I know this might seem off-topic, but I need the answer to ask something pertaining to this topic.

[Roxanne]

Is there a pure wizard that I could carry all the way from BG1 to ToB? Excluding Neera, Dynaheir, Xzar, Xan and Edwin, so I mean someone introduced by some mod. I know this might seem off-topic, but I need the answer to ask something pertaining to this topic.

No.

Not even those listed - Dynaheir is dead, Edwin is not available until you do the Mae Vaer quest. Xzar?.

You can make Imoen a mage right away but she will be missing in first part of BG2

Best choice can be Neera as you can pick her up early in a parts of the game.

Or make the PC one.

Valerie may be planned to fill this but the BG2 part never emerged.

[Blash2]

There is something I'm not understanding.. EET grants the ability to run all games as one, but at the end of SoD, will the game still assume that you're playing with the "canon" party (as in BG1EE/BG2EE transition), or your chosen party members will be maintained (readme says "NPC continuity")? And why a particular NPC needs to have BG2 content (for example Coran), if I can go back to the BG1 area and recruit him?

As you can see, I'm quite confused about this matter

[Roxanne]

There is something I'm not understanding.. EET grants the ability to run all games as one, but at the end of SoD, will the game still assume that you're playing with the "canon" party (as in BG1EE/BG2EE transition), or your chosen party members will be maintained (readme says "NPC continuity")? And why a particular NPC needs to have BG2 content (for example Coran), if I can go back to the BG1 area and recruit him?

As you can see, I'm quite confused about this matter

You keep your party until the end of the SoD campaign. However, SoD vanilla (and EET keeps that story) adds a (half-)chapter at SoD's end of how you left Baldur's Gate, got ambushed and caught and delivered to Irenicus.

In that very last part, the PC is separated from the party members and meets some old friends (Imoen, Minsc, Dynaheir, Jaheira and Khalid). At the moment the ambush occurs those are captured with the PC (this is not really a party that has any game action other than being caught), Dynaheir and Khalid are killed, Jaheira and Minsc are caged near to PC in the dungeon and Imoen escapes from Irenicus to free the survivors. Your other former party members make their way to Amn according to their individual stories (if they have one).

Continuity does not mean that your SoD party will be in Irenicus dungeon with you - it means that e.g the Edwin you meet again in the thieves guild is the same Edwin (spells, level, stats etc) you last had in your party and only if you never had him, the BG2 Edwin appears.

[K4thos]

There is something I'm not understanding.. EET grants the ability to run all games as one, but at the end of SoD, will the game still assume that you're playing with the "canon" party (as in BG1EE/BG2EE transition), or your chosen party members will be maintained (readme says "NPC continuity")? And why a particular NPC needs to have BG2 content (for example Coran), if I can go back to the BG1 area and recruit him?

As you can see, I'm quite confused about this matter

As Roxanne mentioned there is a story for vanilla NPCs written by Bioware and Beamdog, so there wasn't a point in changing how you will meet them during SoA (those events may be also referenced in dialogues and other mods, so it would create unneded compatibility issues). Your initial SoA party composition is explained at the end of the SoD story.

 

As for the mods it's up to modders to decide what SoA area is used for NPC. By default mods are created with vanilla games in mind so the starting point is usually outside of Irenicus Dungeon. But it's perfectly ok to move them there in EET (and to that final area of SoD) if modder wishes to do so.

[Blash2]

Ok, I got it, thanks Roxanne and K4thos

Is it possible to freen Minsc and Jaheira from the cages without adding them to the party? I would like to add only members that are going to stay.

[Roxanne]

Ok, I got it, thanks Roxanne and K4thos

Is it possible to freen Minsc and Jaheira from the cages without adding them to the party? I would like to add only members that are going to stay.

Yes. You can send them to find their way out on their own. You can also use them as long as you have no other members yet and then kick them out. They have dialogue options for each choice. (Imoen as well).

 

You can even install a mod Skip Chateau Irenicus to go right into Amn without needing to bother about anyone in those initial areas.

[Woolie Wool]

Wait, Minsc will disappear in SoD and BG2 if Dynaheir is killed? I have to drag around the most annoying NPC in the entire game to be allowed to keep the most entertaining one? Is there any way at all to have the butt-kicking in BG2 without the thees and thous and various incorrect uses thereof in BG1? Could I petrify and not chunk her instead? Is there still a time limit on recruiting Dynaheir (i.e. Minsc will leave the party if you don't recruit her eventually)? If so, and failing any other solutions, will killing and resurrecting Minsc stop the time limit just like it did in BG1?

 

Also, if I do not dual-class Imoen, will she get her mage class after SoD? The story would certainly justify this, as she must have gotten quite a bit of mage EXP studying magic during SoD.

 

Also, will Voghiln or other SoD NPCs be re-recruitable after SoD is over?

[K4thos]

Wait, Minsc will disappear in SoD and BG2 if Dynaheir is killed? I have to drag around the most annoying NPC in the entire game to be allowed to keep the most entertaining one? Is there any way at all to have the butt-kicking in BG2 without the thees and thous and various incorrect uses thereof in BG1? Could I petrify and not chunk her instead? Is there still a time limit on recruiting Dynaheir (i.e. Minsc will leave the party if you don't recruit her eventually)? If so, and failing any other solutions, will killing and resurrecting Minsc stop the time limit just like it did in BG1?

 

 

It works as explained in this post, so yes, killing her when she is outside party or kicking death NPC out of the party will result in content not being available in later portions of the story. There are some ways to separate Bioware forced pairs without downright killing one of them:

- I think if you dismiss her, and exit the building before she actually can talk to you, Minsc will stay in your party.

- try killing Minsc, then kick Dynhaheir, than resurrect Minsc (untested)

- or simply install one of SCS components that allows BG1 forced pairs to be separated

 

Also, if I do not dual-class Imoen, will she get her mage class after SoD? The story would certainly justify this, as she must have gotten quite a bit of mage EXP studying magic during SoD.

 

I've experimented with forcing dual class via script (CRE previously patched with proper flag to enable dual rather than multi classing) but this results in original class to have 0 XP after scripted dual class. Can't be done as far as I know.

 

Also, will Voghiln or other SoD NPCs be re-recruitable after SoD is over?

 

nope, they move with their own business (at the same time as in vanilla SoD, so they leave the party before you return to Baldur's Gate). Someone would need to write a new SoA content for them.