Elemental Damage & Enhancement Bonus

[Demivrgvs]

More than one player think that the current 1D6 points of elemental damage are too much, and I'd like to discuss this once and for all, especially because such a decision implies many other Enhancement abilities would have to be considered by me in a different way (e.g. if we decide to opt for 1D4 elemental damage than Gnasher's 4 points of damage with slivers would be almost a +2 enhancement bonus rather than the current +1).

 

Benefits of a +1 plain enhancement bonus:

* +1 to attack rolls

* +1 to damage

* +1 to speed (not very important for many characters)

* +1 to enchantment level (crucial to determine which creatures the weapon can hit)

 

Do you think these bonuses are more comparable to a +1D4 elemental damage (average 2.5) or +1D6 (average 3.5)?

 

A few things:

- elemental damage is well known to be extremely effective against Stoneskin

- physical damage is the most reliable type of damage though, as it's far more easy to find a creature resistant or protected from elemental damage than from physical damage

[Jarno Mikkola]

+1d6...

 

implies

I truly resent that word, as if I could.

 

- physical damage is the most reliable type of damage though, as it's far more easy to find a creature resistant or protected from elemental damage than from physical damage

And some creatures are overly protected, so they regenerate from the damage. It's not a problem when the creature is from that element, but the Adamantium golems and Iron golems have 125% protection from fire damage.

[Salk]

I personally vote for 1D4.

[lac]

I wonder how 1d4 will interact with some people's tougher trolls component. You need to hit a troll with more fire or acid damage to finally kill them, and they get up faster. Right now I cannot remember exactly which mods implement them, but it is possible that this fix would make the trolls too hard to kill permamently.

[J Beau]

1D6 for me.

[DrAzTiK]

If you install mod to improve trolls, it's another problem, beyond the fact that weapons whith elemantal damages allow to kill them too easily.

 

1d4, 1d6 It could also depend what weapon we are talking about even if imo 1d6 is too much :

 

I was thinking especially about Stonefire +2 and Frostreaver +2 with 1d6 elemantal damages :

 

Are you ok to say that this two weapons (easy obtainable) are not nerfed at all (and maybe boosted) even with +2 enchantement coz of 1D6 elemental damages.

 

Is it consistent that "Bernard" sell ( for a ridicoulous price) a weapon like that....

 

And if you reduce elemental damage of Stonefire and Frostreaver to 1d4, why want to increase damage,thac0,speed and enchantement by +1. Sorry but i don't UNDERSTAND.

Personnaly i think we should already be happy to have only +1 elemental damage for this too easy obtainble weapons.. even with +2 damage/thac0/speed etc...

 

Imo, the only reason to allow 2 or 1d4 (coz you like random effects) elemental damages for Stonefire and Frostreaver is the fact there is not a lot of powerfull axes in SOA. ( axe who returns to the wielder's hand are not nice fo melee).

 

I don't understand . Please help me !

[Ardanis]

1D3 or 1D4

 

The elemental damage on arrows had been cut down for a reason in BG2, I'm certain.

 

Speaking of trolls, I find it even better to have lower elemental damage than higher. That's a Tougher component after all.

 

I prefer to be nerfed rather than overpowered.

[DrAzTiK]

We are always taking about 1d4 or 1d6 for this mod, never 1d2 or 1d3

[Ardanis]

Are you sure?

1D3

[Demivrgvs]

I was thinking especially about Stonefire +2 and Frostreaver +2 with 1d6 elemantal damages :

 

Are you ok to say that this two weapons (easy obtainable) are not nerfed at all (and maybe boosted) even with +2 enchantement coz of 1D6 elemental damages.

Surely they are not boosted.

 

Vanilla's Frostreaver +3:

* +3 thac0

* +3 damage

* +1 acid damage

* +1 cold damage

= deals 9.5 points of damage (1D8+3+1+1)

 

IR's Frostreaver +2:

* +2 thac0

* +2 damage

* +3.5 cold damage

= deals 10 points of damage (1D8+2+3.5)

 

IR's version deals +0.5 points of damage, but has -1 to thac0, -1 to speed, and can't hit creatures which requires +3 enchantment. Surely it's not boosted, especially considering that vanilla's one offered three different type of damage on the same weapon!

 

That being said, if we're discussing 1D4 vs. 1D6 is because I consider it reasonable, else I wouldn't waste so much time thinking about it!

 

Is it consistent that "Bernard" sell ( for a ridicoulous price) a weapon like that....

In vanilla he sold Blade of Roses +3 and Stonefire +3, at even lower prices than in IR, yes it was not consistent, and I'm gradually trying to put remedy to that trend.

 

And if you reduce elemental damage of Stonefire and Frostreaver to 1d4, why want to increase damage,thac0,speed and enchantement by +1. Sorry but i don't UNDERSTAND.

I've never proposed that and never will, +2 items in the early SoA are more than enough!

 

If you refer to this "e.g. if we decide to opt for 1D4 elemental damage than Gnasher's 4 points of damage with slivers would be almost a +2 enhancement bonus rather than the current +1" you've probably misunderstood quite much. What I meant was:

 

* if 1D6 elemental damage is the equivalent of a +1 enhancement bonus than Gnasher's "Slivers" effect which will inflict 2hp round/2 round (half of vanilla's value) is only slightly better than a +1 enhancement bonus

* if 1D4 elemental damage is the equivalent of a +1 enhancement bonus than Gnasher's Sliver effect which will inflict 2hp round/2 round (half of vanilla's value) is a +2 enhancement bonus

 

And if we compare it with vanilla's Gnasher:

 

* if 1D4 elemental damage is the equivalent of a +1 enhancement bonus than Gnasher's effect which inflicts 2hp round/4 round is a +4 enhancement bonus, making it a weapon with a total +6 enhancement! A Club +6 would be the equivalent of a Club +2 which deals additional 8 points of damage.

 

What I'm trying to say is that if we decide 1D4 elemental damage is the equivalent of a +1 enhancement bonus than I'll probably have to nerf almost all of IR's items too, which isn't necessarily a bad idea , but it's far from being a "little issue".

 

P.S DrAzTiK, you repeatedly mention that "I like random effect", as if it is a problem for you. The answer is yes, I like them, and D&D is based on dice rolls!

[Salk]

Demivrgvs,

 

I would choose 1D4 as I mentioned above but that doesn't necessairly imply that 1D4 elemental damage can be assimilated to a +1 or a +2 weapon enchantment.

 

It's a bit tricky to compare two qualities that don't seem to have so much in common.

[Ardanis]

D&D is based on dice rolls!

That's why it sucks ;D

 

I admit I've forgotten about sheer calculation. That given the other changes made the difference is really thin.

Perhaps that's because the new 1D6 just looks too high.

 

On a second thought, what about 1D3+1=1D5=3?

[DrAzTiK]

What i will say is just my opinon for Frostreaver and Stonefire.

 

Effectiveness of elemantal damages may be subjective. Personnaly i have rarely seen ennemy to be immune but it's most the amount of damages who disturb be (more that nature of damages) .It would be crushing or percing damages, i would be same.

 

Demivrgvs,

 

About axes, i must admit that i see this sort of weapons more like a specialised"s Warrior weapon (like two handed sword) coz not allowed to many multiclassed warrior(druid and priest) and a less thac0 is not a pb for them . Insane's damage, here is the pb imo. That why i 'am a litlle disturb that IR's axes with 1d6 elemantal damages do best job that vanilla' axes for damages.

 

When thac0 is not a pb, +3.5 damage is a big big big boost imo for this 2 easily optainable weapons.

 

Futhermore, your mod improve already damages of many weapons (a bit)

 

I am not aware about all weapons of your mod with 1d6 elemental damages (i want to discover it when i will try your mod), i just say that 1d6 is too much for weapons we can have in the early SoA. Maybe it could be ok for another weapons... My opinon is just for Frostreaver and Stonefire.

 

 

Could you say when we will be able to DL V2 ?

[Demivrgvs]

DrAzTik,

 

if your problem relies in the damage output alone instead of the general power level of items than you do have a point. Anyway, though I do am tempted to reduce elemental damage from 1D6 to 1D4 (to make some weapons less powerful in BG1 and early BG2), I have to take into consideration the following:

 

- Stonefire, Frostreaver, Varscona, and the like rely only on this enhancement bonus to be appealing against many weapons with abilities like stun, blind, slow, poison, and so on. Wouldn't these wepons be discarded too soon because of their lack of appeal?

 

- examples of +1 enhancement bonus are: +1 to all saves (or +3 vs one type), +1 to AC, +5% magic resistance, +5% physical resistance, +20% resistance vs one element, +3 to attack rolls, +10% chance to score critical hits, ... Would you trade any of them with only 2.5 points of damage?

 

Could you say when we will be able to DL V2 ?

This is always uncertain, I should finish my work in a few days, but Mike may be busy during the week, I'd say this weekend should be the final one. Sorry for the delays, but discussions like this do help improving the mod though they also slow me down as I have to re-think everything! Anyway the main fault is mine, I should have decided to leave much more things for V3 instead of trying to put everything into a V2.

 

If someone has a really urgent need for a hotfix let me know, most of the work is done and I should be able to put online any important fix that has been done.

[DrAzTiK]

Would you trade any of them with only 2.5 points of damage

Yes. Imo it's fair... : +10% critical hit = more or less +2 or +3 damage by hit no ? for a warrior who is doing +20 or +30 damages of course. ( and not all fighters do 20 or 30 damages...)

Imo it's fair with +1AC, +1 save etc... Hey 2.5 is not bad at all ! ! ! ! ! ! ! !