Jump to content


Photo

What in the world is up with my Saving Throws?


5 replies to this topic

#1 Grunker

Grunker
  • Members
  • 241 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Copenhagen, Denmark

Posted 23 April 2018 - 10:15 AM

Something is up with Saving Throw calculation in my game, and I have no idea what.

 

The cleanest example is to just create a Human Fighter with 10 in all stats. His saving throws should be 14/16/15/17/17. However, his actual stats in my game are 13/17/13/15/17.

 

Another, more complex example: 

 

An actual Level 7 Gnome Shaman in my current party has these Saving Throws: 10/10/12/14/10.

 

Now a level 7 Shaman should have a base Saving Throw line of 7/11/10/13/12, and since my guy has a Constitution of 18, he should get a +5 to his Wand and Spell Saving Throws, for a total of 7/6/10/13/7.

 

As you can see, the discrepancy is quite large.

 

This is the case for all characters in my game, no matter if I create new ones or check the values of my current party. Anyone want to hazard a guess what I'm doing wrong? Weidu.log is attached to this post.

 

Attached Files


Edited by Grunker, 23 April 2018 - 12:18 PM.


#2 Jarno Mikkola

Jarno Mikkola

    The Imp

  • Modders
  • 6556 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:The town where the dead haven't keeled over, yet. In Finland.

Posted 23 April 2018 - 08:13 PM

Something is up with Saving Throw calculation in my game, and I have no idea what.

~SPELL_REV/SETUP-SPELL_REV.TP2~ #0 #0 // Spell Revisions: v4 Beta 14 BWP Fix
 

Global Changes

Saving throws system Done
Most players seem to agree that V3's -5 and -6 penalties on high lvl spells made those spells too powerful (in specific cases in particular), and V4 will cap the save penalties to -4. Furthermore, the save penalty won't be strictly standardized anymore (e.g. 1st lvl has no penalty, 2nd has -1, 3rd has -2, and so on) but it's "shaped" to better fit each spell, which is more similar to AD&D vanilla system and also gives me one more variable to balance each spell (e.g spells of the same level can have different save penalties depending on how powerful their effects are).


Another, more complex example:

An actual Level 7 Gnome Shaman i...and since my guy has a Constitution of 18, he should get a +5 to his Wand and Spell Saving Throws, for a total of 7/6/10/13/7.

That's a +2 now from the race bonus @ CON at any level, not +5 from race&CON18+.

Edited by Jarno Mikkola, 23 April 2018 - 08:23 PM.

Welcome to the sanity, you are free to search for the limit, it's out there, we drew it in the sand.
Here's how to install all the ... mods you ever really could want to Infinity Engine games. I removed the stable word from there as Roxanne began to add BS mods that are likely to break compatibility from the BWS.

#3 Grunker

Grunker
  • Members
  • 241 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Copenhagen, Denmark

Posted 23 April 2018 - 09:33 PM

Thanks Jarno, but that doesnt really explain anything? What you quote is talking about spell saving throw penalties, not global changes to the saving throw tables of every class. And if thats whats meant by the cryptic explanation, why in the world are global changes to the saving throw tables of every single class not in the ReadMe??

Another, more complex example:An actual Level 7 Gnome Shaman i...and since my guy has a Constitution of 18, he should get a +5 to his Wand and Spell Saving Throws, for a total of 7/6/10/13/7.

That's a +2 now from the race bonus @ CON at any level, not +5 from race&CON18+.
Not sure I understand what youre saying here. According to the Wiki, Shorty Saving Throw bonus should be +5 at 18 CON. The reduction to +2 you mention, is that due to limit for non-fighter or is it spell revisions as well or?

Edited by Grunker, 23 April 2018 - 09:37 PM.


#4 Jarno Mikkola

Jarno Mikkola

    The Imp

  • Modders
  • 6556 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:The town where the dead haven't keeled over, yet. In Finland.

Posted 23 April 2018 - 10:27 PM

...

This whole thing is part of the main component, and it has been reminded to the mod-maintainer to update the readme... but that's neither here or there, if it's comming, and have you actually seen a comprehensive readme about the mod ? I would say that the specific changes it makes is way too plentiful to say in one document as the mod was made from 10 000 individual tweaks.
And the wiki you are refering doesn't reflect the SR's changes to it.
Welcome to the sanity, you are free to search for the limit, it's out there, we drew it in the sand.
Here's how to install all the ... mods you ever really could want to Infinity Engine games. I removed the stable word from there as Roxanne began to add BS mods that are likely to break compatibility from the BWS.

#5 Grunker

Grunker
  • Members
  • 241 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Copenhagen, Denmark

Posted 23 April 2018 - 10:53 PM

EDIT: Ah, I see I'm not the only one who noticed. Wonder why this thread didn't pop up when I did a forum search: http://gibberlings3.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=29290 

Thanks. So the changes to Shorty bonuses are also part of the main component?

I realize the mod makes many changes and I understand its hard to document everything considering constant changes but simply a line that states the mod changes the saving throw tables of every class would be sufficient to ward off my worry that I might have messed up my game :)

Is there any way at all for me to view the actual changes made to the save tables so I can check if my saves are correct? If not its understandable but I gotta ask.

 

Also, just for the record, I think the changes make a ton of sense since vanilla tables are way too punishing for most spells that allow saves to be good. Of course total documentation would be ideal, but even a line in the readme that just says "SR also makes changes to all saving throw tables" would avoid some confusion.


Edited by Grunker, 24 April 2018 - 12:15 AM.


#6 Jarno Mikkola

Jarno Mikkola

    The Imp

  • Modders
  • 6556 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:The town where the dead haven't keeled over, yet. In Finland.

Posted 24 April 2018 - 12:50 AM

Is there any way at all for me to view the actual changes made to the save tables ...

Well you open your game with Near Infinity and check out the savexxx.2da and other .2da files, or just assume things are OK, cause those are the ones you installed.
Welcome to the sanity, you are free to search for the limit, it's out there, we drew it in the sand.
Here's how to install all the ... mods you ever really could want to Infinity Engine games. I removed the stable word from there as Roxanne began to add BS mods that are likely to break compatibility from the BWS.



Reply to this topic



  


0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users