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IR v4 - list of changes over v3


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#16 Lawlight

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Posted 05 May 2012 - 06:05 AM

Rod

Having weapon-like rods not usable by mages isn't a game-breaking issue imo (btw, Rod of Smiting was cleric-only in vanilla, and Rod of Lordly Might creates weapons a mage can't use anyway - so it's just the rod of terror), but you have a point. I actually assumed mages could use clubs by default (via tweak pack) because it doesn't make sense they can't. As I said, rods are a pain to handle, still, making them clubs is a good compromise imo.

It may not be a game-breaking issue that mages are not able to use all rods, and in many cases of these weapon-rods it may not even be useful for a single-classed mage to use it at all, but it's inconsecquent and clearly offends against the "useable by anyone" part. And you are right, it absolutely makes no sense at all that mages can't use the "first weapon of mankind".

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#17 Ardanis

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Posted 05 May 2012 - 12:09 PM


I'm my view, removing critical immunity from items that are not available to the player is far beyond the scope of an Item Revisions mod. Again, I'd urge you to reconsider.

Personally, I see no problem here as long as it's planned as an optional component. :)


The problem is that making such a change in the manner which Ardanis proposed can break other people's work.

To clarify, I have no problem with Item Revisions removing critical hit immunity from Ioun Stones, helmets, hoods and similar headgear which is available to the party. My issue is with removing critical hit immunity from undroppable items which were deliberately placed on creatures to grant them this trait.

I do fully understand your concern. However, it was your own post

In theory, yes, but remember that it is possible to flag items as undroppable in the CRE file as well, so your approach is not 100% error proof.

that made me to question the necessity to leave unmovable items untouched. Why would anyone want to place undroppable item in the head slot, if not to even the odds against party, not because there is a mysterious reason that particular creature must be immune? And if we remove the immunity from party, then there is no more need for opponents to cheat to remain on par with PCs.

The "boss immunity" concept could justify it, but most of their immunities (stun, hold, death, etc.) have been added to prevent the plot breakage. Whereas the crit immunity, at best, can only half the damage from weapon attacks, behaving as a sort of physical resistance.

This leaves only creatures with natural immunity to critical hits - slimes, spectrals, etc. I may be mistaken, but to my knowledge neither vanilla game, nor any mod beside yours, follow specifics with such precision. Eccentually, this means nothing will be broken, that isn't broken already, no?

I'm sure you're joking

Certainly. Consider it a failed attempt to disguise as a certain someone from our scene :)

Shield Bash

Yeah, I'm still not convinced about its implementation. Afaik we don't have an animation for it, and so it would look strange, like using an innate instead of performing a bash attack. You're generally good at persuading me, and in this case I'd really like to be convinced, but I'm not.

They swing the weapon. I know it isn't 100% perfect, but this animation does involve the shield.

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#18 aVENGER_(RR)

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Posted 05 May 2012 - 09:43 PM

Why would anyone want to place undroppable item in the head slot, if not to even the odds against party, not because there is a mysterious reason that particular creature must be immune? And if we remove the immunity from party, then there is no more need for opponents to cheat to remain on par with PCs.


That is all well and good, but it's still out of scope for Item Revisions. If you want to do this, make a separate mod/component named "Remove spurious Critical Hit immunity from opponents" or something and then hand-pick the target creatures. Most of them probably fall under Bioware's "Boss Immunity" stuff but there are also some creatures that should legitimately be immune to criticals. In aTweaks, we deliberately grant this immunity to elementals, slimes and mists and I'm sure that you don't want to intentionally break that.


Consider it a failed attempt to disguise as a certain someone from our scene :)


Admittedly, I haven't been to BWL much since the Iron Curtain went up, so I may have lost my appreciation for the finer aspects of modding debates. :)

*insert snarky comment about IR breaking "dependencies" or some such*

#19 Kalindor

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Posted 07 May 2012 - 02:20 PM

Shield Bash
Agree with Demivrgvs. This would seem "mod-added" without a bashing animation.

Critical Hits
I support removing critical immunity from helms and from monsters that should not have it. It would be a step towards making warrior classes more fearsome in relation to spellcasters. As it stands, I always target wizards first in an enemy party, but this could make me think twice about trying to incapacitate that barbarian first...

Speed Factor Penalties In Heavy Armor
This is a brilliant idea. I'm shocked that I never thought of it. It would definitely make lighter armors "feel" different in combat and make them and lessen the current "no-brainer" situation with plate mail on fighters. I may even consider installing this component with no movement penalty in heavy armor. Hmmm...

Edited by Kalindor, 07 May 2012 - 02:20 PM.


#20 Ardanis

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Posted 08 May 2012 - 04:12 AM

Shield Bash
You can have have a look at how it appears visually here - http://forums.gibber...ndpost&p=197426

Speed Factor in Armor
Just so you know, such an option has been present in v3 since the beginning :)

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#21 Demivrgvs

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Posted 08 May 2012 - 04:36 AM

Speed Factor in Armor

Just so you know, such an option has been present in v3 since the beginning :)

I forgot myself it sneaked into V3 Beta, though without official announcement. In fact we discussed the relevant table not more than a week ago, and agreed this additional drawback is really necessary (together with DEX penalties) to balance the new physical damage resitance offered.

DEX and attack speed penalties will be mandatory within 3.1, at least if you want to install the Revised Armors component which adds physical resistance. Otoh even if I still believe movement rate penalty is cool, many players find it annoying and it's not extremely relevant balance wise, thus I agreed it may not be mandatory.

#22 Kalindor

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Posted 08 May 2012 - 08:58 AM

Otoh even if I still believe movement rate penalty is cool, many players find it annoying and it's not extremely relevant balance wise, thus I agreed it may not be mandatory.


I personally like it, but my multiplayer friends do not. Thus, I am usually voted down when installing the armor revisions. I would enjoy it if it was not mandatory.

Edited by Kalindor, 08 May 2012 - 08:59 AM.


#23 Lawlight

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Posted 08 May 2012 - 09:42 AM

Speed Factor / DEX in Armor

DEX and attack speed penalties will be mandatory within 3.1, at least if you want to install the Revised Armors component which adds physical resistance

That suits me fine. :)

Movement Rate Penalty

Otoh even if I still believe movement rate penalty is cool, many players find it annoying and it's not extremely relevant balance wise, thus I agreed it may not be mandatory.

While a realistic feature, I for one find it extremly annoying (not in solo games, but with a party). So I'd welcome it to be not mandatory.

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#24 Pacek

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Posted 09 May 2012 - 01:05 AM

For the record, I use DEX penalties, no movement speed penalties - I find them annoying. I would probably welcome attack speed penalties also.

#25 Shaitan

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Posted 09 May 2012 - 02:36 AM

I wouldn't like the speed penalty, as Pacek says it's annoying. OTOH hand I don't use Boots of Speed.

Attack speed penalties are logical enough.

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#26 Kalindor

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Posted 10 May 2012 - 08:27 PM

If only there was a way to make the movement speed only take effect in combat situations but not when walking about the town. There is armor removal, but then you are screwed if you are attacked unexpectedly. (Realistic I suppose...)

#27 Demivrgvs

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Posted 10 May 2012 - 11:32 PM

If only there was a way to make the movement speed only take effect in combat situations but not when walking about the town. There is armor removal, but then you are screwed if you are attacked unexpectedly. (Realistic I suppose...)

Actually there is a way to make movement speed penalty take effect only during battles, but it doesn't make sense imo.

#28 Shaitan

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Posted 11 May 2012 - 04:02 AM

If only there was a way to make the movement speed only take effect in combat situations but not when walking about the town. There is armor removal, but then you are screwed if you are attacked unexpectedly. (Realistic I suppose...)

With ToBex, you can now equip/unequip armour in combat ;)
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#29 Alexander-UckateJIb

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Posted 22 July 2012 - 12:08 PM

Any news?:)

#30 Demivrgvs

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Posted 30 July 2012 - 11:12 PM

Any news? :)

Sorry, now there is some news: after a couple of weeks where I barely had time to sleep I'm finally on vacation for almost a full month! :D So, starting from this morning I'll reply to all posts I left unchecked and mod as much as I can. ;)



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