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Where's the Ring of Acuity?


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#1 subtledoctor

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Posted 05 February 2018 - 07:17 PM

Anyone know if IR is turning the Ring of Acuity (extra level 2/3/4 spells) into the BG2 Reaching Ring (extra level 5/6/7 spells)? Ring08 I think? Or else Ring40.

It's really annoying me on BGEE... there are two Reaching Rings but no Evermemory and no Ring of Acuity.

Edited by subtledoctor, 05 February 2018 - 08:39 PM.

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#2 Mike1072

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Posted 05 February 2018 - 09:43 PM

Yes, RING40 is the Reaching Ring with IR.



#3 Bartimaeus

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Posted 05 February 2018 - 11:59 PM

To be fair, it's not really IR's fault, since that's what BG2 did. BGT (and perhaps BGTEE?) separate them into BGRING08 and RING08 so that they both stay in the game.

#4 Jarno Mikkola

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Posted 06 February 2018 - 02:35 AM

To be fair, it's not really IR's fault, since that's what BG2 did. BGT (and perhaps BGTEE?) separate them into BGRING08 and RING08 so that they both stay in the game.

Yeah, but IR REMOVES the item from it's original place in BGT-weidu, just cause the mod maker though it was OP. And he had not played the BG1, EVER ...
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#5 subtledoctor

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Posted 06 February 2018 - 04:08 AM

Evermemory is OP. It was bad design - clearly intended as an apology for the perceived insufficiency of spell slots at low levels.

I'm not saying this is a 'fault' of IR... just trying to track it down. My mod turns level 1 spells into cantrips, obviating the spell slots problem, and replaces Evermemory (ring08) with the Ring of Acuity (ring40). Except, I guess, that doesn't work with IR. So I need to figure out the best way to restore it. Patching the bonuses is easy, mostly I just need to find and use the item description strrefs.

Edited by subtledoctor, 06 February 2018 - 04:09 AM.

Faiths & Powers: Spell spheres and kit pack for priests and paladins
Might & Guile: Tweaks and kits for warriors and rogues
Scales of Balance: Game tweaks and rule overhauls
NPC_EE: More options for NPCs in BGEE, SoD, & BG2EE


#6 Bartimaeus

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Posted 06 February 2018 - 04:16 AM

To be fair, it's not really IR's fault, since that's what BG2 did. BGT (and perhaps BGTEE?) separate them into BGRING08 and RING08 so that they both stay in the game.

Yeah, but IR REMOVES the item from it's original place in BGT-weidu, just cause the mod maker though it was OP. And he had not played the BG1, EVER ...


Hmm, really? IR does basically nothing for BG1, I thought, but maybe I removed that from IRR? Can't recall it doing that, to be honest. Ring of Wizardry is in three different places in BG1, from what I recall - that tiny hidden spot outside of the Friendly Arm Inn, Sunin in Baldur's Gate, and Winski at the end of the game. Which does IR remove it from? (e): I don't see anything like that in normal IR's item_reallocation.tpa or its store_revisions.tpa, and I then did a Notepad++ file search for bgring08 and then ring08 and didn't see anything pertaining to this, so I'm not sure how that could be.

Wouldn't be surprised if SCS's "remove unrealistically helpful items" subcomponent did something like that, though.

Yeah, IR's Ring of Acuity is totally useless in BG1. Better off detecting if IR is installed through some random file check and letting it stay IR's Ring of Wizardry if IR is installed, I guess.

Edited by Bartimaeus, 06 February 2018 - 04:32 AM.


#7 Jarno Mikkola

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Posted 06 February 2018 - 04:29 AM

The FAI location. It might move the ring from there to one of hte others... just like it removes the jewel from a tree at the start area and similar stuff. Yes, the SCS has similar component, but it's mostly a different items.


Edited by Jarno Mikkola, 06 February 2018 - 04:30 AM.

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Here's how to install all the ... mods you ever really could want to Infinity Engine games. I removed the stable word from there as Roxanne began to add BS mods that are likely to break compatibility from the BWS.

#8 Bartimaeus

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Posted 06 February 2018 - 04:38 AM

I mean, I did a literal file search of the contents of every file inside the (normal) Item Revision directory for "bgring08" (which is what the resource is called in BGT), and it did not turn up a single result. Are you sure that wasn't something that maybe happened in an earlier version but doesn't anymore? I just don't see it anywhere.

Edited by Bartimaeus, 06 February 2018 - 07:34 AM.


#9 subtledoctor

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Posted 06 February 2018 - 05:10 AM

I don't know if IR does anything to ring08. Not as far as I know. The issue here us that IR changes ring40 from the Ring of Acuity to the Reaching Ring. But the Reaching Ring is all but useless in BGEE. My suggestion would be to gate that change behind a
ACTION_IF NOT GAME_IS ~bgee~ BEGIN

Faiths & Powers: Spell spheres and kit pack for priests and paladins
Might & Guile: Tweaks and kits for warriors and rogues
Scales of Balance: Game tweaks and rule overhauls
NPC_EE: More options for NPCs in BGEE, SoD, & BG2EE


#10 Bartimaeus

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Posted 06 February 2018 - 07:22 AM

If that happened, wouldn't that just make it so that there are problems in BGT/EET games instead (as anyone using whatever your mod is would get the IR-revised Ring of Acuity instead of the standard Ring of Wizardry)? Kind of why I stuck with the Trilogy method of just making BGRING08 (Evermemory that doubles 1st level spells) and RING08 (Ring of Wizardry/Reaching Ring that adds one spell slot for spellcasting levels 1-4) distinct items (...and removed the "Reaching Ring" subtitle for Ring of Acuity).

Similarly, vanilla IR doesn't deal with/differentiate between a few other BG1 items like World's Edge (BGSW2H07 in BGT, SW2H07 in BG1), Arla's Dragonbane (slng05 in BG2, slng03 in BG1), Girdle of Trollish Fortitude (belt09 in BG2, belt06 in BG1:EE), The Whistling Sword (SW1H09), Fallorain's Plate (PLAT02), Plate of the Dark (PLAT05?), and a few others as well. I attempted to 'fix' that stuff in IRR for both BG1-only and BG2/T games, though I know you have no interest in it...

Edited by Bartimaeus, 06 February 2018 - 08:05 AM.


#11 subtledoctor

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Posted 06 February 2018 - 10:14 AM

If that happened, wouldn't that just make it so that there are problems in BGT/EET games instead (as anyone using whatever your mod is would get the IR-revised Ring of Acuity instead of the standard Ring of Wizardry)? Kind of why I stuck with the Trilogy method of just making BGRING08 (Evermemory that doubles 1st level spells) and RING08 (Ring of Wizardry/Reaching Ring that adds one spell slot for spellcasting levels 1-4) distinct items (...and removed the "Reaching Ring" subtitle for Ring of Acuity).

It's probably worth defining terms here. I haven't opened up my BGT install in a while so I use the EE item names, which might be a mistake. But:

- "Evermemory" = BG1 Ring of Wizardry. It doubles 1st-level spell slots. In BGEE this is ring08.

- "Ring of Acuity" = BG2 Ring of Acuity. It gives extra slots for level 2, 3, and 4. In BGEE this is ring40.

- "Reaching Ring" = BG2 Ring of Wizardry. It gives extra slots for level 5, 6, and 7. I think this is ring08 in BG2/BGT/BG2EE.

- I am not aware of a ring that gives bonus slots for levels 1-4.

I suppose my suggestion may not be a full fix - I'll do that myself. It's just a broader suggestion for the mod not to go out of its way to make a change that is at best unnoticeable and at worst bad for players. I never quite understood why IR replaces the Ring of Acuity with the Reaching Ring, but I never saw any problem with it either, as ring40 doesn't show up in the BG1 portion as far as I know.

... I attempted to 'fix' that stuff in IRR for both BG1-only and BG2/T games, though I know you have no interest in it...

It's not that I have no interest - it's just that it seems to be doing 3 things:
1) fixing/improving parts of IR - stuff sort of like what I suggested above
2) improvements (mostly involving 1PP, if I understand correctly) that Mike et al. do not want to be part of IR
3) your own tweaks that differ from base IR

Seems to me, 1) should be spplied to IR directly. I can do a pull request to the IR Github repo to add fixes like this, but I don't have a full understabding of what all of them are. I can't find a list of the differences.

And 3) should really just be a mod that you publish yourself, because it seems like a matter if taste and players may want IR but not your tweaks - I don't even know if I would like your tweaks, because I don't know what all the differences are between IR and IRR. That's why for me, I published my own spell and item tweak mods, which can be installed with or without SR/IR. They work better as separate mods.

Edited by subtledoctor, 06 February 2018 - 10:15 AM.

Faiths & Powers: Spell spheres and kit pack for priests and paladins
Might & Guile: Tweaks and kits for warriors and rogues
Scales of Balance: Game tweaks and rule overhauls
NPC_EE: More options for NPCs in BGEE, SoD, & BG2EE


#12 Bartimaeus

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Posted 06 February 2018 - 11:01 AM

@first paragraph: In IR, RING08 is Ring of Wizardry that grants one bonus spell slot to spellcasting levels 1-4. You can get this from one of the Harper Hold mercenaries in BG2, and maybe one other place. In IR, RING40 is Ring of Acuity that grants one bonus spell slot to spellcasting levels 5-7, and you can get it from Lavok in the Planar Sphere. In comparison to vanilla, their properties are...essentially switched - probably because it was kind of weird that the rarer one affected lower levels compared to the more common one that also shared a resource with the BG1 version. BGRING08 (used by BGT and possibly EET, idk) is the "double first level spells" one, and it has the name that IR sort of stole from it for Ring of Wizardry, "Evermemory". Normal IR does not attempt to use this one (but IRR does, replacing RING08 in 2 of their 3 spots in BG1 - the one at the FAI, and Winski at the very end of the game, while keeping RING08 on Sunin in Baldur's Gate).

@second paragraph: I'm not disagreeing, but it's just too late. It was originally made entirely for private use until I got in a discussion with a couple of other people that were much more interested in working fixes of IR's current problems than any other tweaks I might've done, and that's reflected in the way it's distributed. It's not meant to be a replacement to normal IR - it's just an alternative option for as long IR remains unupdated for the EEs/1pp and the giant backlog of bugs and oversights isn't dealt with. If that stuff is ever dealt with, IRR would just be a collection of tweaks and would no longer hold any use to anyone besides me. Sadly, we're not there, and I fear unless Demi comes back, we might not ever be. :(

Edited by Bartimaeus, 06 February 2018 - 11:19 AM.




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