Domi Posted July 23, 2004 Share Posted July 23, 2004 I was thinking.. I know, I should have quit it long ago, but here what I came to on the subject of making either elf romanceable Xan and Kivan are equally difficult romances to imagine and to write. While there are significant differences between the two elves, their style will have to be a bit similar - a lot of cold water and a bit of moonlight. So it is either or... or just leave them both be. Xan's pro's: unattached and unengaged; interesting backstory and explanation of underdeveloped aspects of his past and personality; magic-user romance (ie talker vs strongman); an unusual romance; some comic potential; obvious venue for PC to influence NPC Xan's contra's: not a winning personality; INSANE potential for whining and endless consoling; the so abhored "therapy" romance; a bit of a cheesy ending or an unhappy ending; Kivan's pro's: an absolute lady's favorite; rich and well-developped backstory; can tie into the existing in-game events (Tazok) Kivan's contra's: will break the character's most attractive personal threat (an absolute loyalty to his beloved - as soon as it is transeferd to *anyone* else it stops being absolute); will have to destroy Deheriana utterly or player will end up the second best; even destroying Deheriana utterly still puts player on the second best position; potential for whining and endless consoling; the so abhored "therapy" romance; a bit of a cheesy ending or an unhappy ending; the motive of the dead loved one was used in a few other romances already Link to comment
Baronius Posted July 23, 2004 Share Posted July 23, 2004 I look forward for a PC-Xan romance! Link to comment
Theodur Posted July 23, 2004 Share Posted July 23, 2004 Uh, I vote for neither here, simply because neither character is of any great interest to me - I simply do not care about elven male characters. If I'd have to decide, I would say Xan would be more fun... though, I would not develop that romance as a kind of "therapy". Xan is not an Aerie, who has to be relentlessly consoled and treated like a fragile porcelain doll... I would greatly dislike it, if Xan would become cheerful and carefree as the result of that romance. In a sense, I think that he is quite comfortable with his depression and does not have to change to become even marginally bearable. I'd probably be more interested in the romance, if his depression would switch to the PC and she would become equally depressive and subdued as the result. I can't see how you could make Kivan interesting to me, though. He's not a bad character, but... I never really warmed up to him at all. I mean... he's just another elf with a bow. You've seen one, you've seen them all. Besides, if you'd write him forgetting Deheriana for the PC, wouldn't you end up hating him just like you hate BG2 Jaheira? Link to comment
Domi Posted July 23, 2004 Author Share Posted July 23, 2004 I do not hate Jaheira in BG2; I honestly never cared for her one way or another, but I really disliked Bio's killing of Khalid to enable romance with Jaheira. It was too crude imo. Well, Xan's romance will end up theraputical, no matter what you do, because he has a very strong streak of unhappiness within him, and any character development will have to address it. Obviosuly making him into a happy camper is not going to work, but cry-along sessions, imo will be just as bad if they will be used throughout as a monotone. Imo there will have to be a balance between PC becoming a bit more like Xan and Xan becoming a bit more hopeful... My main concern with romancing Kivan is that it does reduce the character's appeal and I listed it. Basically to romance Kivan for me means to have Kivan broken first. I see no other way around it, and despite him being "just another elf with a bow" I do not like building up melodramatic aspect around him higher than it is now. However, the only reason I stayed in the modding community was because of Kivan and Kivan's romance... it's like an eternal candy on the top shelf I cannot reach Link to comment
Meira Posted July 24, 2004 Share Posted July 24, 2004 I voted for Xan though he is the second best. However as you said with Kivan there is not really but second best options. Link to comment
Guest Guest Posted July 24, 2004 Share Posted July 24, 2004 I voted for Xan, simply because he seems more conceivable to romance than Kivan (nice description of Kivan though Domi!). I've seen the plan for Xan and I like how it would seem that in the end he might even become more bitter and depressed than he ever was, which is maybe a good reason for him not being in BG2 when he's romancing you, he couldn't take it. Link to comment
cliffette Posted July 24, 2004 Share Posted July 24, 2004 I always loved Xan much, much more than Kivan. He was just so interesting and gloomy as a character, although I agree that Kivan's story is better. I can't see Xan as a seriously depressed character - he talks too much for that. I see him more as one of those grouchy, doleful types whose exterior is a front that is caricature - inside, he's sort of laughing with his brain at the sheer ridiculousness revealed in life. Nor would I want to cheer him up, though I would have lots of fun trying to get him to crack a smile. To me, he seems quite deliberately and voluntarily gloomy, as opposed to the non self-imposed sadness of depression - therefore he has a pessimistic view of life, but he's not unhappy about it, just because he accepts bad things as part of life. Plus he has an awesome weapon. Link to comment
The Amazing Maurice Posted July 24, 2004 Share Posted July 24, 2004 Xan. To romance Kivan (as you said) would destroy a perfectly good plot line with Kivan's grieving, vengance etc. Link to comment
Theodur Posted July 24, 2004 Share Posted July 24, 2004 I always loved Xan much, much more than Kivan. He was just so interesting and gloomy as a character, although I agree that Kivan's story is better. I can't see Xan as a seriously depressed character - he talks too much for that. I see him more as one of those grouchy, doleful types whose exterior is a front that is caricature - inside, he's sort of laughing with his brain at the sheer ridiculousness revealed in life. Nor would I want to cheer him up, though I would have lots of fun trying to get him to crack a smile. To me, he seems quite deliberately and voluntarily gloomy, as opposed to the non self-imposed sadness of depression - therefore he has a pessimistic view of life, but he's not unhappy about it, just because he accepts bad things as part of life. Amen to that. I also think Xan is quite content to be the way he is... it's more of an attitude thing, rather than an honest depressive state. I'd prefer if he stays the way he is... re-making him into a cheerful, frolicking elf, singing happy serenades to his chosen in the bright of moonlight... uh, that is just not Xan. Link to comment
Domi Posted July 24, 2004 Author Share Posted July 24, 2004 Well, let me assure you that no froliking will take place, and the singing will be restricted to sad tunes As for Xan's depression, I rather see it as a sign of deep inner conflict, than as a pose or facade. I believe that it roots in the fact that Xan is a very intelligent and lawful neutral Moonblade Weilder. He had been given a blade that will kill him if he commits an act of cowardice or ignobility. I do not think he is the type to willingly and happily lift the blade off from the hands of his fallen ancestor and charge onward defending Elvendom. I think it was bestowed upon him, together with all the responsibility. And the duty of a Moonblade weilder in the times when Elves are surrendering lands and retreating to Evermeet, and even that last bastion is threatened is beyound the ability of these 200 men and women who possess active blades. This gift of Seldarine is no more helpful against the impending demise of the elvenkind, than a pointy stick... and yet its power is still there, enough to kill Xan if he does not carry his hopeless task well enough... However, I do not think that it should prohibit him to fall in in love or that he will miss every joy and pleasure returned love brings to a man. I cannot imagine a successful romance with a non-elf, however, due to the idea of mortality and loss outweighing whatever hope love might bring - thus the premature ending for any race but an elf Link to comment
Sillara of the Tamari Posted July 25, 2004 Share Posted July 25, 2004 I voted for Xan, though I really prefer Kivan. I just hate being second-best. Sigh. It would be easier to re-write Lady Maria as Keldorn's sister-in-law than to get rid of Deheriana. Deheriana has to be there. She is as much a part of Kivan as--as his bow. Sigh. So Xan it is. But I still like Kivan. Sillara Link to comment
Domi Posted July 25, 2004 Author Share Posted July 25, 2004 I know and I feel the same way. I'd much rather do a serie of "female PC extended freindship" talks for Kivan, than a romance. I think that so far the only feasible solution that I found for Kivan's Romance I cannot do in BG/BG2, so I keep it as a possible part of my long-put-on-the-back-burner "Slaves of Mulhorand" for NWN... Link to comment
BobTokyo Posted July 25, 2004 Share Posted July 25, 2004 Well . . . It couldn't be a short romance, but the faithful lover moving on and the new love forced to compete with a memory have both been very well done in fiction, including fantasy fiction. David Gemmel's Rigante series comes to mind (as filled with tragedy as that situation was). The key (imo) would be in playing up the storm and stress rather than avoiding it. The danger would be falling into the trap of the Jaheira romance, making the resolution too swift. Of course, you could make Kivan into a joinable NPC in BG2, then have a single coherent romance track that ran from the birth of friendship and death of Tazok in BG1 all the way to a final declaration of love as you faced together the horrors of the Abyss, then the development of that love in the last days of the Bhaalspawn . . . Link to comment
Domi Posted July 25, 2004 Author Share Posted July 25, 2004 I doubt that it will work well with Elven reality of Faerun. Elves rerely remarry. The divorce rate is one in 3000 years or somethin'. Elves can have whatever they want when they reach Arvanaith. I just do not see Kivan foresaking his chance on reuniting with Deheriana for PC. At least that's how I wrote it - this man breathes because he needs to kill Tazok before returning to his beloved Deheriana.... And still it kills uniquenes of the character - he loses his "true love" story immediately upon falling in love with the PC. He becomes a graden variety widower on the loose. He is special and attractive and insanely good, because he cannot move on. True love is the one and only. It is Deheriana. IF it is not Deheriana, he is a pshyco with a bow. There is no second Aragorn for Arwen. There is no second Deheriana for Kivan. Link to comment
BobTokyo Posted July 25, 2004 Share Posted July 25, 2004 Elves can have whatever they want when they reach Arvanaith. I just do not see Kivan foresaking his chance on reuniting with Deheriana for PC. At least that's how I wrote it - this man breathes because he needs to kill Tazok before returning to his beloved Deheriana.... That of course is the problem with a world containing a real and physical afterlife. Changes the rules of narative quite a bit . . . Link to comment
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