SCS vs SR

[Fiann of the Silver Hand]

There are a lot of good ideas for SR, especially concerning magic combat (illusions vs detection, anti-magic, etc) that are having to be scrapped because the default AI mod SCS won't use them properly. However, DavidW himself pointed out that it can be customized if you can grasp SSL. It just seems such a shame to let these ideas wither.

[subtledoctor]

Do you grasp SSL...?

[Fiann of the Silver Hand]

Enough to tweak it to my own preferences. I've altered most of the creature specific scripts, and have a completely different scheme for prioritizing melee targets. It's still necessarily a mess with most of the spells, of course.

[Mike1072]

So far, we haven't had any volunteers who are willing and able to customize SCS behaviour to match drastic changes, so we avoid those sorts of things. There's no point implementing features that the AI won't use or will respond poorly to. That will just make people not want to use the mods together.

[kreso]

...casting Mass Raise Dead here. Per Mike's post above - I did something similar to Fiann above. My main gripe is that I tweaked so many things I simply don't have the time/desire to make this a Weidu mod. As a Weidu, it would also behave a bit odd - you'd have to run it *before* SCS (but with SCS extracted in your game directory) since altering scripts after SCS is installed would take several hours.

I also didn't document any changes I made, which is a bad thing since I've been away from the game so long I can't even remember what changes are there (one I'm ceratin of - mages use damage/disable spells against Deflection to "burn" it). The game plays much more dynamic, faster and is simply so much better that reverting to the old "no.of SD spells absorbed is irrelevant" thingie is a piece of history for me.

I could simply turn it into a .rar package for people to download as a "seperate" SCS install, so they're able to enjoy what SR has to offer in it's fullest. Then again, I don't know what DavidW would have to say about his work being torn to pieces and available as a seperate package.

[Ardanis]

since altering scripts after SCS is installed would take several hours.

If you compile from ssl source. The AI framework I've made for SoD uses more lightweight and compact solution, that takes a few seconds to compile. Granted, it's quite less devoted to checking for twenty immunity types when selecting a target, but I think even that wouldn't slow it down to more than a few minutes, at the very worst.

 

PS Strictly speaking, I think taking advantage of SCS sorting vanilla resources, and then installing our own AI on top of it is not such a terrible idea... I'd be too lazy to re-do all the small fixes and adjustments that SCS does, but rebuilding a couple dozens core scripts I can manage.

[kreso]

 

since altering scripts after SCS is installed would take several hours.

If you compile from ssl source. The AI framework I've made for SoD uses more lightweight and compact solution, that takes a few seconds to compile. Granted, it's quite less devoted to checking for twenty immunity types when selecting a target, but I think even that wouldn't slow it down to more than a few minutes, at the very worst.

 

I'm not sure I understand. The problem with SCS scripts (decompiled) is their huge lenght - ranging up to almost 2MB of .bcs text code per enemy wizard. Now if I want to make a mod that goes through all of them (I have over 5k bcs files in my fairly vanilla setup) and removes 3 code lines from each targeting block so mages ignore spell protections for targeting parameters (and it has to be done with precision, since one doesn't want to go trough Deflections using Breach, but rather sequencered Flame Arrows and similar; likewise, AI should be smart not to try and burn Archons or Spell Trap, both of which have unlimited charge ammount) it will take roughly as much time as installing SCS in the first place, if not more.

If one edits SSL code before installing SCS, installation is shorter and whole process is much less prone to error.

[Ardanis]

If the idea was to keep the original SCS behavior more or less intact, then I guess yes... I was thinking more about extending SoD's AI design to BG1&2 as well, using SCS as a foundation only.

 

and it has to be done with precision, since one doesn't want to go trough Deflections using Breach, but rather sequencered Flame Arrows and similar; likewise, AI should be smart not to try and burn Archons or Spell Trap, both of which have unlimited charge ammount

 

That's what I call overcomplicating things, heh I just used a bit of randomization, and it pretty much dealt with "send immune tank forth while others shoot from behind" tactic.

[kreso]

If the idea was to keep the original SCS behavior more or less intact, then I guess yes... I was thinking more about extending SoD's AI design to BG1&2 as well, using SCS as a foundation only.

 

Aha. Well, fwiw - the little I played SoD I can say AI is rather decent actually and it feels fairly immersive. I haven't looked at any SoD code, and I can't say how it would work for high-level oponnents.

 

 

and it has to be done with precision, since one doesn't want to go trough Deflections using Breach, but rather sequencered Flame Arrows and similar; likewise, AI should be smart not to try and burn Archons or Spell Trap, both of which have unlimited charge ammount

 

That's what I call overcomplicating things, heh I just used a bit of randomization, and it pretty much dealt with "send immune tank forth while others shoot from behind" tactic.

Heh. Well, for a casual player, I think you've done plenty already . What would be good imo is that same scripting is used on all EE games - SoD now feels (or at least did last time I played it) as a modded "abomination" since BG1EE & BG2EE AIs are(were?) piss-poor in comparison.

[InKal]

It's not like I actually know what you hackers are talking abut...

 

but

 

If you want to make SCS more simple techwise, shorter installation time, etc. JUST GO FOR IT!!

 

If you want to make (Spell)Revised version of SCS or something JUST GO FOR IT!!

 

github is waiting for your juicy uploads!

 

 

IMO, default AI script (advanced ai, iirc) in BGEE is imo pretty good for default difficulty level (normal, iiirc)

[subtledoctor]

Dammit, I so want to be able to recreate kreso's SCS setup...

[kreso]

Dammit, I so want to be able to recreate kreso's SCS setup...

You won't need to.

[kreso]

Imagine Star Wars intro music......

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

WIP......

[Demivrgvs]

[kreso]

SCS would avoid (sometimes, I think this is just an oversight and legacy Pre-ToBex code) casting AoE vs Mirror Image. All such instances are fixed. (fix)

Spell school of all PW spells is changed for targeting (was Conjuration, tweaked to Enchantment.) (SRfix)

This will lead to SCS not using (wasting actually) PW spells against Mind Blank. (SRFix)

SI:Enchantment (Mind Blank) is now destroyable by Breach (and AI will use Breach vs it) rather than Spellstrike/Secret Word and similar. (SRfix)

Mind Blank makes a target valid for both Breach and Dispel Magic. (SRfix)

Pierce Shield was sometimes used vs high MR targets, changed - Pierce Magic will now be used. With SR, this spell

doesn't lower MR. Trigger 3x Lower resistance is unchanged. (SRfix)

Unholy Blight & Holy Smite in SR affect creatures regardless of alignment. SCS will use it this way as well;

so Korgan will for example be a valid Unholy Blight target. (SRfix)

Acid / Flame Arrows are now used vs stoneskined targets. (tweak)

Chaotic Commands is ignored for Maze targeting since with SR it doesn't protect against it. (SRfix)

Harm, Slay Living, Cause Wounds and similar are used much more efficently by AI. (SRfix)

Reworked targeting priorities for some spells - Finger of Death first priority are mages and thieves, disables that require spell save are to be used on fighter-types (was already partially implemented, now streamlined). (SRFix)

Finger of Death no longer checks for Death Ward. It causes a good deal of damage even on a succesfull save, so watch your mages. (tweak)

Sometimes (rarely) fighter/mages would use SI:Conjuration in Chain Contingency. This spell doesn't exist in SR and SCS

will not use it any more. (SRfix, tweak)

Chaos spell is reworked in SR, but SCS targeting parameters were now wrong. Fixed, now ignores Confusion immunity. (SRfix)

Likewise, Chaos was often used as a trigger (originally 3xChaos), now it's 3xConfusion istead. (tweak, SRfix)

Spell school changes imposed by SR are now taken into account for spell selection (kitted SCS mages) and targeting. (tweak, SRfix)

Spell immunity check removed from all blocks bar Enchantment and some Divination, it's redundant now. (tweak, SRfix)

Druids don't prebuff with illegal spells nor have any, but now use Free Action since they have access to it. (SRfix).

Clerics won't prebuff with illegal spells also. (SRfix)

Avenger Druids "thought" they were using Chaos (spdr5***) and is actually Cone of Cold now - fixed targeting parameters. (SRFix)

Clerics will use new Break Enchantment spell on disabled allies. This includes Charmed, Stunned, Sleeping, Confused and similar states. Thanks Ardanis & lynx for help with Charm curing. (tweak)

Glyph of Warding now used correctly. (SRfix)

Miscast Magic now usable by AI. For some reason SCS wouldn't use it if SR is detected. (tweak)

Some changes to relevant saves (poly/spell etc.) are now changed in targeting checks. (SRfix)

Disintegrate targeting fixed. (SRfix)

Due to a bug in sfo, Blade Barrier would never be used by BG2 mages. Fixed. (fix)

Enemies will use single-target damage/disable spells against Deflections with notable exceptions: (tweak)

- level 9 and level 8 single-target are not used to burn Deflections unless enemies have unlimited ammout like some Demons due to them being expensive for that,

- Breach is never used against Deflection since it's too expensive to waste

- no spell at all is used against Spell Trap and Archons due to unlimited level apsorption

- a bunch of other stuff concerning Globes, prebuff (one thing I'd like to do is make AI use Mind Blank) spell selection etc.

Coming today....